Peter and MJ out of character since BND?

[Vortex85]

What do you think of the below post? I agree wholeheartedly with what is said below. I think the current status quo is absolutely wrong for the characters.

http://mrsspidermanmaryjanewatsonpar...088/quick-note

Basically guys…there are a number of reasons why Peter and MJ Post-OMD were written out of character.
Wanna know a big one though?
The fact that they

a) Weren’t trying to get back together and
b) Moved on

People forget…we’d literally been in this exact same situation before.

Mary Jane leaves Peter and goes to L.A.
For starters that event itself is out of character bullshit of the highest order because Mary Jane WOULDN’T leave Peter outside of something contrived like mind control, her going nuts, Peter and/or her fundamentally changing who they are, etc.

But more than this, at the start of JMS’ run, we saw that Peter, for however long it’d been after he and MJ had broken up (it’d been at an estimate at least a few months), was really not happy about it and upset. MJ was often on his mind, he didn’t entertain the idea of moving on and he (like her) were miserable and pining for each other.
They tried to arrange a meeting to sort things out that went awry.

Peter then tried to actually go to L.A. to talk to her about it. She needed more time to sort herself out (this was in the wake of her being abducted and held prisoner for months, so she was understandably a bit off kilter).
When Shathra went on TV and claimed she was having an affair with Spider-Man, Peter immediately called MJ to assure her it wasn’t true and MJ herself, even though deep down she didn’t believe it, was upset by the news. So upset in fact that she out and out went from L.A. to NYC to see Peter and again try to resolve things.

At the same time Peter changed his flight out of Ghana to take him to L.A. instead of NYC, again to talk to MJ. They both missed each other and deluded themselves into thinking the other had moved on and that they themselves should give up their efforts for reconciliation. Dejectedly both left to go home.

But upon encountering one another by chance in an airport stop over the two of them immediately dropped their plans to try and once again sort things out, which they succeeded in doing, getting to the heart of their relationship and making one another realise and resolve their issues (for the most part).

What I am trying to say is, given the situation from the start of Brand New Day, Peter and MJ’s actions are wholly at odds with what had already been established.
Peter and MJ both DIDN’T attempt any kind of true reconciliation with one another, despite in theory them remembering they’d been here before and knowing how they felt about one another and what they mean to one another.
Peter should’ve been trying to contact or see MJ to get her back and MJ should’ve been doing the same. They’d been through too much stuff to just let it go and move on. In fact, to quote one astute fan who abstractly touched upon this topic:
If he divorced, I honestly think it would simply be too emotionally devastating for him to be able to pick himself off the floor and try again. Because as I indicated in my Mary Jane series, it was a love that was built over time, tested, thwarted, and finally blossomed again when it was ready. After what the two of them have been through, there can be no other love for Peter Parker. They will all pale next to what he had in Mary Jane, and we will know that. No matter who he dates in the future, who he screws, they will all come in a distant second to her. It’s one thing to read a series about trouble, ups and downs, etc. – but what’s the point of reading about futility?
And that’s exactly it…Peter wouldn’t move on. And frankly neither would MJ. They’ve been through too much shit together.

Now granted in BND, Peter did still want to be with MJ as exemplified a few times, including the abominable One Moment in Time arc. But that just makes the fact that he DIDN’T try to truly reconcile with her all the more out of character for him. He even sort of tried to reconcile with MJ in the 1980s era of Spider-Man, where (despite being with Black Cat) thoughts of being with MJ cropped into his head, he flirted with her and later on he tried more than once to be romantic with her. In fact to a large extent during that run they were both effectively dating but in denial about it.

Peter and MJ should be much more upset and miserable over the fact that they are not together, not getting on with life and having it be this thing that kinda just happened as BND and Slott’s run have depicted them as.
And before anyone accuses me of saying all this stuff just because I’m a shipper, they effectively did the same thing with Aunt May.
Aunt May knew Peter’s identity before One More Day, and yet ever since then Peter has deliberately kept her in the dark with the writers just ignoring that elephant in the room. As such Peter has CONSTANTLY been out of character each and every moment we’ve seen him, in particular when he’s interacting with May.

If the writers ignored that and blindly pushed forward, I don’t think I’m out of line in saying they did the same with Peter and MJ’s relationship.

Ostensibly they are both of them out of character each and every moment they aren’t trying to reconcile, not actually together and are okay with both facts.

[Aruran.]

Honestly, when I read BND it sounded like Peter and MJ weren't together for long. So I didn't necessarily believe that their married relationship and them being together as a couple were the same. Like them being married probably covered 3-5 years, while in the current context they probably dated for 1 year at most. So they easily could've skipped out on certain things that the married version went through and had to endure.

So while it's not consistent to anything written prior to issue 545, it's been consistent since that issue.

[Vortex85]

Honestly, when I read BND it sounded like Peter and MJ weren't together for long. So I didn't necessarily believe that their married relationship and them being together as a couple were the same. Like them being married probably covered 3-5 years, while in the current context they probably dated for 1 year at most. So they easily could've skipped out on certain things that the married version went through and had to endure.

So while it's not consistent to anything written prior to issue 545, it's been consistent since that issue.

"Everything happened except the ring on the finger." - Marvel

[Darthfury78]

"Everything happened except the ring on the finger." - Marvel

I see the current status of Peter and MJ altered situation as similar to this classic story



Just another alternate reality of Earth-616. The White Mouse represents OMD/OMIT because it's a story that tried to undo Peter and Mary Jane's marriage with disastrous results.

[Scott Taylor]

"Everything happened except the ring on the finger." - Marvel

Makes no sense to me. If the ring on the finger had such an insignificant effect on someone's life then everyone would get married at the drop of a hat. No big deal. But it is a big deal, and affects pretty much everything. Gays want to be married, and its a huge cultural issue, precisely its a big deal.

[Vortex85]

Makes no sense to me. If the ring on the finger had such an insignificant effect on someone's life then everyone would get married at the drop of a hat. No big deal. But it is a big deal, and affects pretty much everything. Gays want to be married, and its a huge cultural issue, precisely its a big deal.

I agree, but that is Marvel's stated stance on it. Probably just to diffuse fan outrage though.

I completely disagree with them. Many stories could not have happened and much of the reasoning behind what happened would have changed.

[Aruran.]

"Everything happened except the ring on the finger." - Marvel

They've contradicted that point many times in BND and beyond. It's pretty clear half the stuff they went through in the JMS run didn't happen or else they would still be together. The airport scene doesn't make any sense if they aren't married or even choosing to be together forever.

[Vortex85]

They've contradicted that point many times in BND and beyond. It's pretty clear half the stuff they went through in the JMS run didn't happen or else they would still be together. The airport scene doesn't make any sense if they aren't married or even choosing to be together forever.

I know, not everything could have happened. It was just to drive home the point that Marvel's stance is at least that MOST things happened and they happened for close to the same length of time. So if the marraige lasted 4 years, then their single lives may have lasted 3 or 3.5. Not 1 year of dating. Most storylines still hapened, just differently where they had to.

[Kevinroc]

The worst is OMIT, and its rationale for why Peter and MJ broke up. Some punk threatened MJ and her family?

That makes no sense.

How long did Norman Osborn know the secret? How did that work out for Peter's ex, and MJ's friend, Gwen? And yet she didn't cower in fear like that when Norman came back into their lives to terrorize Spider-Man. But some goon hired by the Kingpin sends her packing?

[DarthKnight]

Well. It was time for something fresh for Peter Parker. The whole MJ/PP relationship has been played out for the last 20 years.

[Vortex85]

Well. It was time for something fresh for Peter Parker. The whole MJ/PP relationship has been played out for the last 20 years.

That's like saying time for something fresh for Peter Parker. The whole Spider-Man thing has been played out for the last 53 years.

[EuphemismForSex]

The worst is OMIT, and its rationale for why Peter and MJ broke up. Some punk threatened MJ and her family?

That makes no sense.

How long did Norman Osborn know the secret? How did that work out for Peter's ex, and MJ's friend, Gwen? And yet she didn't cower in fear like that when Norman came back into their lives to terrorize Spider-Man. But some goon hired by the Kingpin sends her packing?

Well, no one who cares about Peter or MJ would've written that story. So it kind of makes sense that it doesn't make sense.

As for their characterization... It's a whole 180. Like I make fun of how bad New52, but OMD was basically the same thing for Peter and MJ as it was for Supes and WW.

[mtalisker18]

Well. It was time for something fresh for Peter Parker. The whole MJ/PP relationship has been played out for the last 20 years.

That is your opinion to which I respectfully disagree. I'm more tired with the current antics of Peter Parker.

[Aruran.]

I know, not everything could have happened. It was just to drive home the point that Marvel's stance is at least that MOST things happened and they happened for close to the same length of time. So if the marraige lasted 4 years, then their single lives may have lasted 3 or 3.5. Not 1 year of dating. Most storylines still hapened, just differently where they had to.

Why I see it as 1 year of dating
-Peter and MJ decided to stay as a couple after the whole missing the wedding thing
-The Venom and Jonathan Cesar storyline can be condensed into a two-week span
-Black Cat would come back from a 3 week vacation and is shocked that Peter and MJ are living together
-End of the first month can have the start of Maximum Carnage
-Harry Osborn "dies" in the beginning of month 2
-Peter's parents come back in the middle of month 2
-They get exposed at the end of the month
-The Clone Saga starts, Peter and MJ decide to leave New York because of the 3 stressful month and try to reconnect as a couple
-They come back at the end of the month where Peter resumes being Spider-Man
-Month 4 has Norman doing the Gathering 5 plus Aunt May coming back (if the story of Aunt May dying even happened)
-Month 5 has MJ working in LA and spending time away from Peter
-Month 6 has them spending more time together, only for the Civil War to happen
-End of month 6 would have Peter and MJ breaking up cause MJ can't handle it anymore.
-BND would start 3 months later
-MJ would come back to New York 6 months after her and Peter broke up.

And that would be Peter's life as a 24-25 year old. My view is that the events would've happened quicker, so there would never have been a moment of peace for the two of them. Coupled with the drama of Peter leaving her at the alter, it would make more sense they didn't make as a couple longer than a year.

Do I think my logic is right? Probably not. Is it better than OMIT? Yeah

[Mister Mets]

I think the perception that they've been out of character is the result of two things that led to a bit of a culture clash.

The sliding time scale meant that Peter and MJ weren't much older in comics published in 2008 than they were in comics published in 1987. In that time, there were changes in terms of what's acceptable to depict in Spider-Man comics, especially when it comes to consenting unmarried adults.

There's also the odd coincidence that between Stan Lee's run and Brand New Day, writers from a particular generation had an outsized influence on the 616 Spider-Man. So writers born between 1948 and 1960 dominated from 1972 to 2007: Gerry Conway, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, Peter David, Howard Mackie, JMS, David Michelinie, JM Dematteis, Tom Defalco, etc. There was an inevitable stylistic shift when a younger generation took over most of the stories (even though Slott, Kelly, Wells, and Waid were industry veterans.)