Thor #5. Spoilerific review.

[SickAlice]

If anything Creel is established as a dunce but the behavior is at best otherwise out of character for him if for any reason that he general either isn't smart enough or simply doesn't care about up to date P.R. agenda's (I more imagine him saying " What's a fenemenenizm? "). Also I kind of doubt he would drop that kind of talk in front of the woman he appreciates as he knows she's impatient enough to kick him into next week for it. Equally Titania is tough as a tank and normally revels in both that and being a strong feared woman. It doesn't fit that shes silently in a passive aggressive relationship with someone who disrespects her. Normally at even the implication of smack talk she'll send the other party, whether on her side or not, reeling across the horizon. There's nothing wrong with the sentiment nor stance in itself but I'd agree here at least the characterization wasn't right and the delinquent duo were being used as stand in props. Doesn't change my opinion of the issue earlier given mind you but in the interest of the debate happening here now I'll confess I think anyone speaking here has a valid point more or less. Abuse is wrong and the portrayal of the villains in this issue were wrong as well in short.

[Viteh]

While I agree that Thor isn't really a mantle, I didn't mind it being interpreted as such.

But this issue seems kinda silly. I think Aaron could have gotten his message across in a much more elaborated manner.

[shgs]

And "abusive" is the word you're looking for. "Their relationship is all kinds of abusive". Don't sugar-coat or dismiss it because the victim's male.

Not even in the slightest. This is a superhero comic, which means there is going to be a certain amount of violence between the protagonists and the antagonists. They are in the middle of a super-powered fight. Creel is trying to hurt/kill Thor. Titania betrays Creel, sucker punches him and knocks him out. Titania is defending Thor and incapacitating a criminal who happens to be her partner, not being abusive.

As for the people crying 'this would never happen if the genders were swapped:' women get knocked out in comics all the time so of course that part might happen, would the reason be because two men wanted to show male solidarity, and to celebrate 'man-power'? Of course not, men are already in a position of privilege and advantage and don't need a 'men-power' movement, any more than white people need the white power movement. If the genders were swapped you'd have two men celebrating their continued superiority over women, whereas in this case you have two women celebrating the opportunity to be treated with the same amount of respect as a man.

[Guest_1001]

Not even in the slightest. This is a superhero comic, which means there is going to be a certain amount of violence between the protagonists and the antagonists. They are in the middle of a super-powered fight. Creel is trying to hurt/kill Thor. Titania betrays Creel, sucker punches him and knocks him out. Titania is defending Thor and incapacitating a criminal who happens to be her partner, not being abusive.

As for the people crying 'this would never happen if the genders were swapped:' women get knocked out in comics all the time so of course that part might happen, would the reason be because two men wanted to show male solidarity, and to celebrate 'man-power'? Of course not, men are already in a position of privilege and advantage and don't need a 'men-power' movement, any more than white people need the white power movement. If the genders were swapped you'd have two men celebrating their continued superiority over women, whereas in this case you have two women celebrating the opportunity to be treated with the same amount of respect as a man.

There are plenty of areas where men are disadvantaged compared to women, including domestic violence and rape resources, lower healthcare funding, making up the majority of homeless people and victims of assault and suicide.

However, even putting those real-life practical reasons aside, a woman attacking her husband/boyfriend is still domestic violence and, in case it didn't tip you off, Titania did it in part due to Creel's "wandering eye". Damn right you wouldn't see that if the genders were swapped and there is no amount of domestic violence -- nor domestic violence apologism, as you're displaying -- that will grant women "the same amount of respect as a man". Which is ludicrous in itself, since I have a distinct lack of respect for both female characters (but mainly Jason Aaron) due to the silly surrender from Titania, the domestic violence and the out-of-character moments from both Titania and Absorbing Man.

[MrHashasheen]

I'm not one to give a care about stuff like Fem! Thor or Black! Captain America or come down on either side, but this little tirade from Aaron through the comics was bad for multiple reasons.

1. Using the comic book as the medium. Defend the idea online if you want, but people who are actually buying the book probably don't need the lecture. It was painfully obvious, and unhelpful for the character's run for it to happen.
2. Absorbing Man and Titania. Anyone else find it funny that AM "aka the bad misogynist" elected to treat Fem-Thor fairly by giving her a fight, while "girl power" Titania let her off because "she's a woman?". Slightly pathetic, but indicative of Aaron's writing, I suppose. Also, Titania dropping a fight so that AM can keep his eyes off other girls... makes her seem like one of those housewives who lets their man do whatever they want and justifies it to herself. What a girl-power moment that is. Edit: I didn't actually pick up that she hit him on that basis. Yeah, that might be worse than just letting it slide. If that had been the other way around, everyone would be up in arms.
3. Dialogue in general was just not good, and didn't help the obvious agenda. This could have been an interesting event (Fem Thor fights AM and Titania, validating herself as a successor/replacement), but nothing Aaron did was beneficial. I don't think he's really got a handle on separating how she speaks from how she thinks.

Can't speak to the rest of the issue since I didn't buy it, and only saw the relevant pages online when someone posted it in a Marvel thread elsewhere.

I might be restating what's already been said by many I suppose, or be a minority voice. Either way, meh. I don't pick up the book and if the fanbase reading it digs this sort of stuff, then I hope they enjoyed it.

[Mark]

Creel's come a long way from the days when he could battle all the Avengers. Last time I saw him was the Ms.Marvel/Captain Marvel debut issue where he was treated as an easy mark the same way he was here. Guys really hit on hard times.

[Kirby Krackle]

Creel's come a long way from the days when he could battle all the Avengers. Last time I saw him was the Ms.Marvel/Captain Marvel debut issue where he was treated as an easy mark the same way he was here. Guys really hit on hard times.

He's entered jobber territory.

[shgs]

First of all, spare me the "privilege" BS and comparing "man-power" to "white power". There are plenty of areas where men are disadvantaged compared to women, including domestic violence and rape resources, lower healthcare funding, making up the majority of homeless people and victims of assault and suicide.

However, even putting those real-life practical reasons aside, a woman attacking her husband/boyfriend is still domestic violence and, in case it didn't tip you off, Titania did it in part due to Creel's "wandering eye". Damn right you wouldn't see that if the genders were swapped and there is no amount of domestic violence -- nor domestic violence apologism, as you're displaying -- that will grant women "the same amount of respect as a man". Which is ludicrous in itself, since I have a distinct lack of respect for both female characters (but mainly Jason Aaron) due to the silly surrender from Titania, the domestic violence and the out-of-character moments from both Titania and Absorbing Man.

Of course there are areas where men are disadvantaged, but we live in a society that was built by men, for men, and we are gradually bending it into one that is fair to all. It is not there yet. So yes, 'man-power' is comparable to 'white power.' Denouncing them does not mean that men and white people have no problems, simply that they are not fighting to overturn (or perhaps to re-balance would be a more appropriate, less incendiary term) a system that has long worked against them. Edit: Just to clarify plenty of men, white people, etc. fight for equality, even though the system generally works in their favour.

As for the fight, you simply cannot equate a situation in a superhero comic, where the characters are already smacking each other around, with real world domestic abuse. In the real world any violence is unacceptable, except in very rare cases where someone's life is on the line. In a superhero comic we accept it, celebrate it even, because it makes a dramatic story. If you are fine with Thor smacking around Creel, you cannot claim it is unacceptable for Titania to smack Creel. In a super hero comic, the bad guy getting knocked out is considered good (again, this is absolutely not the case in real life), as is the fact that Creel goes to prison. It doesn't matter that Titania has ulterior motives for wanting Creel in prison. If a woman snitched on her criminal boyfriend in real life, because she didn't want him to get 'wandering eyes' this would not be considered abuse by anyone. The only reason Titania is violent towards Creel is because in superhero comics violence is how criminals are brought to justice.

[Rosebunse]

Of course there are areas where men are disadvantaged, but we live in a society that was built by men, for men, and we are gradually bending it into one that is fair to all. It is not there yet. So yes, 'man-power' is comparable to 'white power.' Denouncing them does not mean that men and white people have no problems, simply that they are not fighting to overturn (or perhaps to re-balance would be a more appropriate, less incendiary term) a system that has long worked against them. Edit: Just to clarify plenty of men, white people, etc. fight for equality, even though the system generally works in their favour.

As for the fight, you simply cannot equate a situation in a superhero comic, where the characters are already smacking each other around, with real world domestic abuse. In the real world any violence is unacceptable, except in very rare cases where someone's life is on the line. In a superhero comic we accept it, celebrate it even, because it makes a dramatic story. If you are fine with Thor smacking around Creel, you cannot claim it is unacceptable for Titania to smack Creel. In a super hero comic, the bad guy getting knocked out is considered good (again, this is absolutely not the case in real life), as is the fact that Creel goes to prison. It doesn't matter that Titania has ulterior motives for wanting Creel in prison. If a woman snitched on her criminal boyfriend in real life, because she didn't want him to get 'wandering eyes' this would not be considered abuse by anyone. The only reason Titania is violent towards Creel is because in superhero comics violence is how criminals are brought to justice.

I for one think you're bring a very good perspective to these debates.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

All I know is, when Thor gets his title back, there is gonna be quite the poopstorm.

[Kirby Krackle]

All I know is, when Thor gets his title back, there is gonna be quite the poopstorm.

Unless they keep both and give her a new hammer. She could end up being the new Thunderstrike.

[themasething]

As for Titania - she does hit Creel in the face. Their relationship is all kinds of weird.

You call it "all kinds of weird", I'd call it "domestic violence".

[rgx]

Creel's come a long way from the days when he could battle all the Avengers. Last time I saw him was the Ms.Marvel/Captain Marvel debut issue where he was treated as an easy mark the same way he was here. Guys really hit on hard times.

Alas, It does seem that our dear Carl is nothing today but a jobber, and a horrible one at that. He evens jobs to himself, by turning into cocaine. Honestly, if his power set evolved to its next logical step, or heck, if he weren't such a dumb muscle, he should be at least an Ultron level threat.

[Rosebunse]

All I know is, when Thor gets his title back, there is gonna be quite the poopstorm.

I think we're all expecting it. It's just something that's likely to happen, and it would be no matter who had the hammer.

Now, there's always the minor chance that it won't happen, but let's not think of such things, because they give us too much hope for the much anticipated status quo change that actually sticks.

You call it "all kinds of weird", I'd call it "domestic violence".

I would call it a mutually toxic relationship. They both feed off of each other, but they're never going to totally leave each other. It's not supposed to be healthy.

[Kirby Krackle]

Alas, It does seem that our dear Carl is nothing today but a jobber, and a horrible one at that. He evens jobs to himself, by turning into cocaine. Honestly, if his power set evolved to its next logical step, or heck, if he weren't such a dumb muscle, he should be at least an ultron level threat.

At least Remender wrote him as a somewhat capable threat/hero in AXIS. It's possibly the best he's been written in a long time.