Thor #5. Spoilerific review.

[karanveer41]

This issue was quite fun if not as good as the previous. I don't know anything at all about the Titania chick because I'm a fairly new reader but what she did, throwing the fight, somehow seemed plausible. I think she assumed that this new Thor must be stronger than Thor Odinson, that Lady Thor must have earned and won that hammer from him and that was what impressed her.

[Monari]

What i'd like to know, and what still hasn't been addressed, is how exactly Thor ended up being unworthy in the first place. What was it that Nick Fury whispered to him? Everyone, including the writer, seems to have forgotten about that, and as it stands, it seems like a hackneyed way to gimp Odinson Thor while pushing the new female Thor into the spotlight.

[jphamlore]

What i'd like to know, and what still hasn't been addressed, is how exactly Thor ended up being unworthy in the first place. What was it that Nick Fury whispered to him? Everyone, including the writer, seems to have forgotten about that, and as it stands, it seems like a hackneyed way to gimp Odinson Thor while pushing the new female Thor into the spotlight.

If it isn't some sort of magical knowledge from the future from either King Loki or one of Thor Odinson's granddaughters, I would guess Nick Fury simply said to the Odinson: "You can't defend Midgard." Mjolnir thus passes to I presume Roz Solomon who is sworn to defend Midgard, including ecological issues.

This explains why Aaron's King Thor in the far future always comes back to Midgard no matter how ruined it is.

[Rogue Star]

What i'd like to know, and what still hasn't been addressed, is how exactly Thor ended up being unworthy in the first place. What was it that Nick Fury whispered to him? Everyone, including the writer, seems to have forgotten about that, and as it stands, it seems like a hackneyed way to gimp Odinson Thor while pushing the new female Thor into the spotlight.

Robert Jefferson (ComicsExplained on YouTube) claims he figured it out. I guess it had something to do with the world tree, Ragnarok, and killing the beings that kept the cycle going or something like that (I forgot their names). I don't know. It had better be something good because I'm not interested in the whisper or the secret identity at all. I'm certain Roz Solomon is Thor. Let's just get on with the character development, please.

[jphamlore]

Robert Jefferson (ComicsExplained on YouTube) claims he figured it out. I guess it had something to do with the world tree, Ragnarok, and killing the beings that kept the cycle going or something like that (I forgot their names). I don't know. It had better be something good because I'm not interested in the whisper or the secret identity at all. I'm certain Roz Solomon is Thor. Let's just get on with the character development, please.

No, just stick with what Jason Aaron has written. It's one very cohesive story.

Midgard Earth in the far future is totally devastated. That King Thor did not seek help in the other Nine Realms indicates the other realms are devastated as well. We have just had Roxxon's head Dario Agger bargain with Malekith for entire realms for Roxxon to despoil and destroy. Dario Agger has also pledged to despoil and destroy Earth. I say all indications are in Aaron's story that is exactly what happens if we follow one time line into the future ending with King Thor and his granddaughters.

Aaron said in interviews before the Roxxon storyline began that that was one enemy Thor Odinson could not defeat with his fists. He can't do it and he knows in his heart after what happened to Broxton he can't do it. That's why one sentence from Nick Fury, Sr. could make Thor Odinson unworthy in his eyes of wielding the hammer.

[Rogue Star]

No, just stick with what Jason Aaron has written. It's one very cohesive story.

Midgard Earth in the far future is totally devastated. That King Thor did not seek help in the other Nine Realms indicates the other realms are devastated as well. We have just had Roxxon's head Dario Agger bargain with Malekith for entire realms for Roxxon to despoil and destroy. Dario Agger has also pledged to despoil and destroy Earth. I say all indications are in Aaron's story that is exactly what happens if we follow one time line into the future ending with King Thor and his granddaughters.

Aaron said in interviews before the Roxxon storyline began that that was one enemy Thor Odinson could not defeat with his fists. He can't do it and he knows in his heart after what happened to Broxton he can't do it. That's why one sentence from Nick Fury, Sr. could make Thor Odinson unworthy in his eyes of wielding the hammer.

Okay, I see what you're saying now. I can see that being the case sorta. It just doesn't seem like Odinson would be the type to give up; he'd rather die trying. But there were plenty of times when Roz told him to step down and let her handle Roxxon her way and because Odinson didn't listen to her Broxton got wasted. So, I guess I could see him coming to the realization that as long as he is wielding Mjolnir, Midgard is doomed. I have to go back and read though; I don't recall how Fury could have known the future fate of the worlds.

[Ronin0985]

Okay, I see what you're saying now. I can see that being the case sorta. It just doesn't seem like Odinson would be the type to give up; he'd rather die trying. But there were plenty of times when Roz told him to step down and let her handle Roxxon her way and because Odinson didn't listen to her Broxton got wasted. So, I guess I could see him coming to the realization that as long as he is wielding Mjolnir, Midgard is doomed. I have to go back and read though; I don't recall how Fury could have known the future fate of the worlds.

Nick Fury made off with one of the Uatu's eyes in Original Sin after killing him and then was pressed into service as his replacement as punishment at the end of it.

[jackolover]

Okay, so why is the new thor hanging out on the moon so much? has she had any time to go back to her civilian identity (whatever it is?)

It could be the Watchers widow, because she refers to each time she has to let go of the hammer getting harder to do. And, it's the Moon, where she lives in the Blue area. Although....... Odinson does say the word Nick Fury in the bar. Nick Fury lives on the Moon too. Fury has disguised as a woman before, with some sort of image inducer. Curious. I do wonder, if Thor is Fury the Unseen, what his agenda seems to be as Thor? Is he just filling a role that's went missing, or, is there some connection to Thor and the Incursions?

You know, this period in the MU after the AXIS has been the weirdest. We have Thor disinherited while the Multiverse is being disintegrated, and Odin doesn't even make one mention of the fact, when he has the all seeing Heimdall right there. Is this fogging of the clairvoyants an effect of the Incursions on Asgard, who think they are the center of the Universe? You would think Odin would have some incling that the Multiverse Incursions are disturbing the MU?

[jackolover]

I don't like Odin's depiction here at all. Odin is a pretty tough guy but when did he become so despotic?

I can see Odin as despotic. The switch for me is his acceptance of Cul, and calling him his brother, even though he wanted to kill Odins son.

The first time Cul was released from Odins Prison, Odin was petrified, and it may be because he knew Cul would kill Thor. Now that that premonition is over, Odin is Odin again, and he lets his worst enemy in his own back yard. Take Old Loki for example, and you can see Odin is blind when it comes to his own family. No, I'm fine with how Odin accepts Cul Borson.

Odin is not inclined towards the Council of Worlds, and will dissolve that momentarily. Odin is, "You will do what I say", keeping up the tradition that Cul set. Odin will supplant the All Mother, or try to. (The way AARON is writing this we should have the whole book replaced with feminists and to hell with the fan boys). If Aarons message is that feminist theology is going to be the paramount, then it will be a hard pill to swallow. More and more legacy characters are appearing that are female now in Marvel, that it's almost like the decade of womens acendency. I'm not averse to some female characters being more prominent, but how far are Marvel willing to go with that policy? More and more strong women are appearing in real life now in positions of power, and armed forces and services, and the sciences, so it may be a reflection of the acceptance of the female powerful role model? Heaven help Odin if it becomes time to be at loggerheads with Freya.

Some thoughts on the feminism in the context of the series.

Firstly we head into this issue with Thor God of Thunder having passed on his mantle to Thor Goddess of Thunder. Obviously anyone carrying the hammer is worthy but how is Jason Aaron reading the famous inscription? Is it only the 'Power of Thor' that is imbued by the hammer?

Over the course of the entirety of Thor comics what exactly happens when you pick up the hammer has changed, been retconned and generally played around with by the writers. This has led to very interesting stories and quite a complex knot to unravel when it comes to what the hammer can do. Clearly Jason Aaron wants us to reflect on this and he is using the feminine as a point of departure from previous stories.

Everything in this series hinges on the moment when Odin shouts at Freya "it is time you remembered your place". Our gods, even the Asguardian gods of Marvel, are a reflection of us. Their stories are about us. Odin the All-Father is a reflection on how the world used to be. Let’s put the whole quote out there:

"And You. The Fleeting age of the All-Mother has passed. Asgard will be again as it was for centuries.. With Odin alone above all. It is time you remembered your place in that world Freyja."

Her response, eyeing the hammer and talking to herself is "Yes... Perhaps it is."

She clearly sets a plan in motion but we are not fully aware what that plan is.

The next thing we see is the ‘S’ appear when the new Thor picks up the hammer. It doesn’t appear before, it is not there when others are attempting to lift the hammer, but it does appear as the new Thor picks it up.

Odin wrote that inscription, the hammer was forged to Odin’s specifications and the magic of the inscription is a working of Odin’s will. Clearly the S is a working of Freya’s Will. It is a defiant act and a clear statement on how she believes the future of Asgard should be. She has not rewritten the inscription, she has not totally gone against Odin’s will, she had added her own perspective to it.

As a feminist statement this is a subtle one. It is a statement aimed squarely at Odin. She is seeking to teach the god of men and the father of all, a lesson about his place. Is a patriarchal deity above every other god, or does he take his place alongside the matriarchal deity?

The outworking’s of this feminist point of departure are actually less preachy and less obvious than they might appear. For a start we have Absorbing Man. This isn’t an accidental choice, Absorbing man is tied to Asgardian lore. Loki gave him the power that he possesses, and his first major use of that power was to absorb the properties of the hammer. So his threat to Thor in this issue is both a real one and a challenge to the new Thor’s source of power. Thor’s increased control of the hammer is a direct answer to this challenge.

Now to Titania. For a start, how could Aaron resist using Titania in the lead up to Secret Wars? She was introduced in that series and very quickly established herself as Creel’s love interest. She was given a backstory loaded with female power issues. Admittedly in a clumsy 1980’s manner roughly contemporary with the era that Dazzler spent more time in the shower or in states of undress than on stage.

Titania was a kid picked on for being small, made tall and powerful by Doom. Comics are full of that crazy power fantasy thing, and Titania is straight out of that tradition. She is also tied to the Serpent story that Aaron is picking up the threads of. She was one of his ‘worthy’ picking up one of the seven hammers. If any female villain has an insight into what it means to be Thor it is her.

This says it a lot better. Females are depicted as inferior to man, but it is being realised more and more that females wield more power from another direction. I do wonder how Freya depicts the strength of the female role in the power structure. If Odin is antiquated, is AARON going to humiliate Odin?

[jackolover]

Overall I enjoyed this issue and continue to enjoy Aarons run on Thor however there were a couple of things I didn't like. First being Titania, it seemed odd she was all about girl power, but whatever, I'll overlook that however She gave herself up and Thor still knocks her out?! That's not really heroic now is it? That's on the same line as police brutality. Second thing I didn't like and I knew it was inevitable for it to be brought up was Odin on the search for new Thors identity...ok hear me out, incoming rant.

I personally hate it when identities in comics are kept a secret from the reader for long periods of time. It gets drawn out and when the 'big reveal' finally happens, fans have already guessed the identity. Think Red Hulk and Mutant Zero. Next and final thing I didn't like was Odinson bringing up the whisper...same thing applies. These two mysteries are gimmicks, they're attempts to keep people interested in the story...You know what I say? Write a good story and leave out gimmicks like this. Going back to the identity and whisper mystery, it gets annoying and repetitive when someone brings it up and someone comes crashing through a window and interrupts them...these are story cliches and very tired ones at that.

Other than those three things I'm still on board, like I said I am enjoying Aarons run on Thor and I like the mythos hes left beind so far the art work has been pretty amazing for a long time too.

This was supposed to be the issue where Thors identity was revealed, so you answered your own question on who Thor is -Nick Fury, the Unseen. Fury whispered in Thors ear and Thor dropped the hammer. Fury is on the moon. The new Thor picked up the hammer on the moon.

I'm going to have to take a look at that scene, because from what I've seen of Titania she's not at all the type to just give her self up. The more accurate way would have been having her slug Crusher with a harsh line like "Well that takes care of that jack..." then looking at Thor and smirking, while punching her fist to her palm, "Now let's see if that little hammer of yours really makes you worthy." Or maybe something like, "I don't care if you are a woman I'll still take you down." Something to indicate that, while she doesn't agree with Chrusher's view she's still not going to just up and surrender to just anyone, woman or not.

I'll have to get this issue when I pick up the rest of my books.

Titania was once a Worthy herself and wielded a hammer just like Lady Thor. Maybe there is a sisterhood between them?

Let's break it down

Bad stuff:
Clumsy feminism - Titania throwing a fight out of respect.
Thought bubbles - They are an outmoded device which reflect the inability to show the story through dialogue or visuals.
Bad characterisation - Lady Thor is a cypher. Odin is being stupid. Odin's brother - also a cypher.
Lady Thor - not a particularly good character idea in and of itself, though it may lead to some good stories so judgement reserved.

Good things
Good characterisation - Thor is in character and more interesting than usual. Ditto Sif
Odin - he's always been a tyrant. About time this was exposed.
Feminism - gender politics in Asgard are inherently quite interesting, although clumsy exposition may render that false.

All in all the bad outweigh the good at the moment and it feels like a corporate agenda to diversify the 1950s characters with half an eye on the movies (which itself may be no bad thing on other occasions, but not so much here.) But let's give it time.

I don't think Marvel or a dictating Disney are trying to diversify Marvel movie universe Characters into females. They would be cutting their own throats tossing females at an audience expecting male role models, simply for how intriguing it would be. No, this seems more like some feminist showdown to me, of dispensing with the old world and replacing it with the new world. When Battleworld is over and the New Marvel restored as we fully expect sometime in the future, if this male/female dynamic is resolved, we will see the Allmother side by side Odin as equal rulers in that new world.

I really enjoyed the issue! I did find the bit with Absorbing Man and Titania a little heavy handed, but I am not like, upset with it. And the way I see it, the people that scene would piss off are ALREADY pissed off, and nothing short of reverting everything t the old status quo would satisfy them. So this scene is not going to change that situation, and it makes it clear that Jason Aaron is perfectly well aware of what people are saying, and he's stating clearly that he is not going to let it affect what he is doing. If that makes some fans drop the book, fine, they probably would end up dropping it anyway.

I really enjoyed the continued uraveling of the situation in Asgard, and what that means for the future. It's clear a schism is coming, with Freyja one side and Odin on the other. It appears Freyja will have the most support, especially after Odin put Cul of all people in a position of power. I mean, I think his newfound commitment to family is nice, but... still... He can show some forgiveness to Cul without, y'know, giving him power that he is likely to abuse. I think I would have liked a a bit more subtlety in the two sides, rather than having Odin's side be so clearly in the wrong, but it's still fun. Also, as a Loki fan, I think the Cul situation adds a lot there. Now we have Cul filling what is essentially Loki's old role, which means Loki is pretty much free to be the wildcard here. After what Freyja did to him, he is unlikely to be on her side, and if Thor is on her side, he will not want Loki there. On the other side, with Odin's newfound commitment to family and forgiveness, he's likely welcome Loki with open arms, so it is pretty clear which side he will end up on. But I don't think Loki would really be OK with Odin's views, he is not one to stand for traditional and unchanging systems. which could end up creating an interesting situation.


I really liked the scene with Sif, as well.

Keep your friends Close. Keep your enemies closer. Cul on the loose and out in the open is foolhardy. Putting Cul to work in Odins structure just authenticates Odins system to Cul. Instead of Cul feeling isolated and angry, he will be accepted, much like what Black Bolt did with Maximus.

I'm half wondering if there's something wrong with Odin. There's this line, and I'm not sure if it's a throwaway one, or if it is meaningful..

Attachment 17573

Seeing as he's just made an obviously awful decision, could Cul be magically influencing him in some way? He's awfully powerful too. Just a theory.

Cul did or does have a daughter, so Cul might have had a wife too, and it would intrigue me if it was Freya as well. We have yet to see the emergence of the real Skadi.

I love Aaron run, but this last issue was the worst of it by far. I cant stand his Odin, he is comic relief now ? After playing chess for 6 months he is best friend of Serpent now ? He seens like a bit crazy, i dont know.

Titania fight was horrible, the meta language even worst, dont fit in this story.

I think Odin lost the final game of chess didn't he? If so, it could signify Culs usurping of Odin.

Because I don't find the "mystery" of her identity to be all that compelling, and Aaron writing such a godawful take on Odin is helping. It's tedious. If we would just reveal who she is and move on, then the book would be all the better for it imo.

I don't know, but a similar thing was done with Red Hulk in withholding General Ross' secret Indentity for so long also. Did anybody see in benefit in withholding Rulks Secret Identity for as long as it took? Was there any real reason not to reveal it in issue #1?

[Post Monster]

I think Aaron is using gender politics to derail what I feel is valid criticism of his comic. Obviously there are a few people here who see this as a gender issue, but I think most don't.

Pretty much. Thor has been turned into a woman before, and it wasn't that big a deal. If that had happened here it wouldn't have been such a huge deal. It's the fact they are replacing Thor with another character that's got folks worked up. See Bruce Wayne is Batman, not Dick Grayson for a similar reaction. And fans love Grayson.

I'll add that Odin recruiting Cul isn't that strange, since Cul is part of the royal circle unlike she-Thor. It's only natural he'd see a non-family member as a challenge to his family's rule. I do think we need to see the hesitancy to trust Cul, though.

[kilderkin]

Not happy at all with this - i don't mind a woman being worthy of the at all - Ive always liked the idea of Valkyrie Brunhilda being worthy - i could really go for that
but the idea of thor as a title he has now lost is ridiculous and banal as an excuse to sell this new version - and that odin cant lift the hammer because of his own magic - beyond ridiculous when hes commanded it to fall with just a word before today - as for how thor (real thor) is being written i find it somewhat insulting and really very damaging to the character he looks belittled and that cant ever work for the greatest non mortal warrior marvel has - simply damaging

ive heard a story that fake thor was supposed to be his mom till people guessed this and they changed it - like they did with red hulk making it thunderbolt ross after people guessed it was talbot - anone know if this is true or not?

[Rogue Star]

Not happy at all with this - i don't mind a woman being worthy of the at all - Ive always liked the idea of Valkyrie Brunhilda being worthy - i could really go for that
but the idea of thor as a title he has now lost is ridiculous and banal as an excuse to sell this new version - and that odin cant lift the hammer because of his own magic - beyond ridiculous when hes commanded it to fall with just a word before today - as for how thor (real thor) is being written i find it somewhat insulting and really very damaging to the character he looks belittled and that cant ever work for the greatest non mortal warrior marvel has - simply damaging

ive heard a story that fake thor was supposed to be his mom till people guessed this and they changed it - like they did with red hulk making it thunderbolt ross after people guessed it was talbot - anone know if this is true or not?

I doubt it because her inner dialogue was in modern English from the beginning.

[kilderkin]

I doubt it because her inner dialogue was in modern English from the beginning.

thats a good point - we find out soon - by then i think its make or break with any interest from fans - the right choice might hold them - im only interested in what the whisper was but if they make me wait too long ill basically forget and will barely notice when they tell us

[Wren]

Really not fond of girl-Thor. I'm a girl, I like girls in comics... but come on. Thor is what his mother calls him. It's not a title, ffs. What does she call him now, Odinson?
This is just silly pandering. The bit in this issue with Titania giving up is just pathetic.

Also I have a hard time warming up to someone who we don't really know why she is supposed to be interesting or heroic. "Because the hammer said so" is not a good reason.
So far we just see her fighting stuff and winning, due to unearned godlike power (so much so she's apparently a natural at using the hammer, lol).
So in the end we know nothing about her worthy of interest, she has a limited personality no backstory and almost no struggles.

Ironically, girl Thor's main function so far seems to be to give Thor a story, rather than telling her own. Thor's struggles of worthlessness are actually compelling to me, as is the situation in Asgard.