Marvel continuity: I'm Lost

[Atari]

I am love love loving my Marvel Comics, and I love the way they try to present the MU as one cohesive universe, warts and all. I imagine Marvel probably invented that idea that is so widespread throughout all kinds of story-telling now.

It used to be, figuring out a rough reading order was no problem. If I could see that a storyline event had clearly taken place in another comic, I'd just look at the month and year on the front of the issue, or in the copyright notice, and then read until I was caught up. But recently, I started getting tripped up by the changes the Hulk has gone through in his own comics and in Avengers, and I realized to my horror that I no longer have that anchor. Not only is there no date on the comic any longer, just an issue number, but the editors rarely tell you what comic to read to see the story!

How can I align my Marvel comics so that I'm reading things in roughly the right order? Is there a master index or something somewhere? I've tried looking at websites with release calendars, but they usually break it down by week, which is way too tedious to wade through. I need either a master list for the year, for all time, or by the month, minimum.

A little help, bro's?

[My Two Cents]

I find it best to decide if the story fits in the proper Marvel Universe and not where.

[Raye]

There is generally no need to line things up THAT tightly, unless the books are closely related (such as Avengers and New Avengers, a couple of the X books, the Asgard books, and such. But they only tend to line up with other books in their little 'family' and usually not all that closely. and there are usually notes in the front if an issue takes place prior to another issue or after or whatever) but most books aren't that tightly tied together, and you can just read through them without really worrying about what is going on elsewhere too much. When an event comes along most books that participate will suddenly snap to about the same timeframe, then they will drift away again afterward. So read a book until an event comes up, read the next until it reaches the same event, and so on until you get all the books you are following to the same event, read the event, and then just do it all over again, i guess? But not all books participate in all events, so...

[Atari]

I appreciate the replies, but I hope one of you has an answer!

Avengers/New Avengers example is correct, but that's an easy one- just read them in roughly alternating order. I need some kind of index somewhere. Here is what I find it happening a lot:

SPOILERS IF YOU"RE NOT CAUGHT UP:

I was reading Avengers/New Avengers, and realized I had been reading about Hulk who now goes by "Doc Green".

So I went and read Hulk, figuring that was what I had missed, since I had not started reading it yet. But the comic suddenly leaps ahead to after the Doc Green moment, meaning that it happened at some point in Indestructible Hulk, maybe?, which I read and am not caught up on yet.

END SPOILERS.

I would enjoy that and countless other examples much better if I had an easy way to see how much comics are lined up by publish date, such as a complete publishing date list, or a reading order for the entire brand.

[MajorHoy]

Marvel continuity: I'm Lossssssttt

Aren't we all?

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Hold out a few months more because then everything ends!
No more being lossssssttt!
THANK JACK King KIRBY!

[Raye]

I appreciate the replies, but I hope one of you has an answer!

Avengers/New Avengers example is correct, but that's an easy one- just read them in roughly alternating order. I need some kind of index somewhere. Here is what I find it happening a lot:

SPOILERS IF YOU"RE NOT CAUGHT UP:

I was reading Avengers/New Avengers, and realized I had been reading about Hulk who now goes by "Doc Green".

So I went and read Hulk, figuring that was what I had missed, since I had not started reading it yet. But the comic suddenly leaps ahead to after the Doc Green moment, meaning that it happened at some point in Indestructible Hulk, maybe?, which I read and am not caught up on yet.

END SPOILERS.

I would enjoy that and countless other examples much better if I had an easy way to see how much comics are lined up by publish date, such as a complete publishing date list, or a reading order for the entire brand.

Ah, I do not follow Hulk, but from what I've been able to gather, Hulk was in 'Doc Green' phase for quite a while. I am not entirely sure when it first happened, so I'm afraid I can not help you there. But Avengers and New Avengers are in a bit of a weird place because right now they take place several months in the future compared to all the other books. Anything with 'Time Runs Out' on the cover is in the future, so they are not going to line up with anything else no matter what until Secret Wars hits.

[Mark]

Continuity is too hard for the marvel writers and editors to deal with so they don't.

[Prof. Warren]

I appreciate the replies, but I hope one of you has an answer!

Avengers/New Avengers example is correct, but that's an easy one- just read them in roughly alternating order. I need some kind of index somewhere. Here is what I find it happening a lot:

SPOILERS IF YOU"RE NOT CAUGHT UP:

I was reading Avengers/New Avengers, and realized I had been reading about Hulk who now goes by "Doc Green".

So I went and read Hulk, figuring that was what I had missed, since I had not started reading it yet. But the comic suddenly leaps ahead to after the Doc Green moment, meaning that it happened at some point in Indestructible Hulk, maybe?, which I read and am not caught up on yet.

END SPOILERS.

I would enjoy that and countless other examples much better if I had an easy way to see how much comics are lined up by publish date, such as a complete publishing date list, or a reading order for the entire brand.

Hulk turns to Doc Green within the Hulk book. Some of the incidents that caused the change (I believe) occurred within the Original Sin tie-in IRON MAN VS. THE HULK. Other than that, everything happens in HULK itself.

[hawkeyefan]

Most of the time, it is obvious. If the Hulk is his Doc Green persona in Avengers, then that issue of Avengers takes place after the issues of Hulk where he becomes Doc Green.

Usually , you don't need to know a whole lot more than that.

Occasionally, there are a few such aspects and then it's harder because you have to line up 3 or 4 things instead of just 2. In those instances, you just do what you can with it, and don't worry too hard about it.

This has been going on for a long time, and everyone has made it through. It seems more prevalent because of the internet as because the increase of the number of titles that some characters appear in...that makes it harder to effectively coordinate.

But ultimately, the answer is that most if the time it's obvious, and when it isn't, you just wing it.

[Viteh]

Continuity was fired like 5 years ago.

[SickAlice]

They used to do these " Saga " books that detailed chronology pretty well, at least the more recent ones. Remember those? And sometimes a book with the same format and maybe some bios stuck in it. The last one I recall reading was Fear Itself: Fellowship Of Fear. It was a journey through the ages of Marvel canon and how it all led up to and tied into Fear Itself as narrated by D'Spayre. Also a preview for an upcoming/thereafter event that never seemed to have happened. Anyways I wish they still made those or at least could print something along the lines before we get into Secret Wars. There is a NOW! Handbook but for the most part it get's on bios and not chronology so much, as well it stops short of Tony becoming Superior and the new Thor with little preface.

[THANOSRULES]

Continuity is too hard for the marvel writers and editors to deal with so they don't.

Since Joe Q they've been repulsed, and even adversarial to continuity. I guess it is a revulsion from the way Marvel books used to work, continuity withy an iron hand , most notably the iron rule of Jim Shooter (and still there were always a few goofs)

Marvel needs to solidify its editorial control of certain books so everyone is on the same page. They also got very hands off with editing books in general IMO, and while this was limited to "rock stars" like Bendis or JMS initially, now it has spread to 'lower ranking' writers as well.

Guys like Tom Brevoort will dismiss fan gripes as just mindless zombie talk. He'll copy and paste the error from 1968 where Hulk was colored wrong or some such...but IMO as a fan the books have gotten really bad and disjointed. For me , it all started to hit the fan with Bendis Avengers Assembled Thanos Arc.. and moved to marvel cosmic...

I haven't read the DocGreen Duggan Hulk stuff, but I do know Duggan's made huge continuity and story gaffs in several of his arcs within "Nova". They turned me off to the point of dropping the title.

[hawkeyefan]

Since Joe Q they've been repulsed, and even adversarial to continuity. I guess it is a revulsion from the way Marvel books used to work, continuity withy an iron hand , most notably the iron rule of Jim Shooter (and still there were always a few goofs)

Marvel needs to solidify its editorial control of certain books so everyone is on the same page. They also got very hands off with editing books in general IMO, and while this was limited to "rock stars" like Bendis or JMS initially, now it has spread to 'lower ranking' writers as well.

Guys like Tom Brevoort will dismiss fan gripes as just mindless zombie talk. He'll copy and paste the error from 1968 where Hulk was colored wrong or some such...but IMO as a fan the books have gotten really bad and disjointed. For me , it all started to hit the fan with Bendis Avengers Assembled Thanos Arc.. and moved to marvel cosmic...

I haven't read the DocGreen Duggan Hulk stuff, but I do know Duggan's made huge continuity and story gaffs in several of his arcs within "Nova". They turned me off to the point of dropping the title.

I have a question for you, because I'm a longtime reader and I tend to have a different view on continuity Han many other longtime readers. So I'm genuinely curious about this difference in view.

My question is do you think that the Marvel that you would prefer...meaning the best example of the type of editorial oversight that you can think of, whether that was 1968 or 1985 or whenever...do you think that approach can or could have existed in perpetuity?

How many years worth of stories need to take place for characters who are timeless before a strong continuity approach just doesn't work anymore? Do you think that if Marvel was still around in 2115 that they'd still be able to maintain the same continuity right down to every detail?

I think that they have to change their approach to every aspect of what they do from time to time. They have to examine it and decide what's for the best. Anytime anyone says that they need to just keep doing what they've always done, I get a little confused. Why would you expect that approach to work?

I hope I am not being too argumentative because I genuinely am curious.

[shgs]

To address the specific Hulk question. The first issue in which Doc Green appears is the most recent Hulk #5. Banner's brain damage is cured in #4 using Extremis, which has a knock-on effect of making Hulk super intelligent. There's a time gap of a few weeks between #4 and #5, which seems to have caused your confusion, and when Hulk comes back in #5 he has cut his hair and is calling himself Doc Green, but this is all first explained in Hulk #5 itself.

I hope that helps. When I need to look up continuity stuff I usually use marvel.wikia.com. It's not as useful as your hypothetical timeline though, if only.