PREVIEW: New Avengers #31

[vitruvian]

The reason I bring it up that the Silver Age heroes suddenly appear, is because it starts as ordinary humans during the Monster Age, ( and yes, the Celestials seeded the Eternals and other mutants and powerful beings did exist way in the past). Why the sudden appearance of the Earth-616 heroes when they did? I consider that Earth-616 is the seed of all the other alternate universe Earths anyway, so having Incursions center on that makes sense. But in Battleworld we are also getting other sections of the Universe like Kree and Shi'Ar countries too, so it looks like Incursions were going on between other than Earths also.

Nope, it doesn't. Fair number of superhumans all through history and prehistory. Big increase in (visible, the Eternals were always around) numbers during WWII. Maybe fewer public ones during the 50s, 60s, etc., but there were still some such as the First Line. Then boost in numbers again following the debut of the FF.

But how much of these fluctuations is the actual number of superhumans, and how much is a factor of how many of them opt to go public as costumed adventurers or menaces as a cultural thing, is kind of up in the air.

[vitruvian]

I'm not sure I understand what you are thinking is in the past. Cataclysm is in the past. AFAWK, the Eternals are still holding Galactus and weaponizing him with the God Whisperer. Yes, they started in the recent past (All New Invaders 5), but they haven't done anything else with him against the Kree yet.

The conjecture in the Invaders thread is perhaps Robinson will finish up that plotline in Secret Wars -- either in New Mars or perhaps Hala Field.

We know from Time Runs Out that plotline must have wrapped up during the time gap, because he was shown free to meet with Reed and the Illuminati, then disappear.

[teepee]

Galactus was corrupted in Cataclysm. It could be a Galactus that was corrupted by another being, which may have been why Galactus disappeared a few issues back.

I kind of like this theory even though I don't buy it. Galactus started off as a 'human' scientist trying to prevent the end of the previous multiverse. It would be an interesting cycle if Reed Richards became the Galactus of the next multiverse.

[Rosebunse]

That's before the eight month time jump, so since then he must have broken free, been approached by the Illuminati, and disappeared.

That's sort of what I thought.

I kind of like this theory even though I don't buy it. Galactus started off as a 'human' scientist trying to prevent the end of the previous multiverse. It would be an interesting cycle if Reed Richards became the Galactus of the next multiverse.

Oh, that would be so mean! I can totally see Hickman doing it! Now, would it be Ult Reed or 616 Reed? We need to get rid of one because this is going to get really confusing.

[Spidey>batman13]

[QUOTE=teepee;949338]I kind of like this theory even though I don't buy it. Galactus started off as a 'human' scientist trying to prevent the end of the previous multiverse. It would be an interesting cycle if Reed Richards became the Galactus of the next

That would be seriously amazing, don't think it'll happen but that would be amazing

[jphamlore]

I kind of like this theory even though I don't buy it. Galactus started off as a 'human' scientist trying to prevent the end of the previous multiverse. It would be an interesting cycle if Reed Richards became the Galactus of the next multiverse.

Marvel has a chance to turn Ultimate Reed and Ultimate Sue into a Galactus couple ...

[SickAlice]

That's before the eight month time jump, so since then he must have broken free, been approached by the Illuminati, and disappeared.

Thanks. This image wasn't fresh in my mind. I tracked it and just looked at the issue (NA#39). The tense occurs after New Invaders but before the 8th Month present in Time Runs Out somewhere (the images a quick but Reed has grown a beard by this point). I was under the impression Galactus had otherwise been purged off the Gah Lak Tus corruption? Else so where we're at the was Galactus as well as the Celestials had last been accounted for at a time in that eight month span then vanished mid-meeting for reasons and to location unknown at least to the heroes of Earth, and to date this is unresolved, correct? Or am I blinking out something that happened after NA#39 as well?

[Ite]

Rabum Alal is...

[vitruvian]

Thanks. This image wasn't fresh in my mind. I tracked it and just looked at the issue (NA#39). The tense occurs after New Invaders but before the 8th Month present in Time Runs Out somewhere (the images a quick but Reed has grown a beard by this point). I was under the impression Galactus had otherwise been purged off the Gah Lak Tus corruption? Else so where we're at the was Galactus as well as the Celestials had last been accounted for at a time in that eight month span then vanished mid-meeting for reasons and to location unknown at least to the heroes of Earth, and to date this is unresolved, correct? Or am I blinking out something that happened after NA#39 as well?

No, you're correct, that's exactly it. The Illuminati got as far as getting Galactus and the Celestials to meet with them, but then they disappeared, and where to or why has not been resolved.

The Celestials aren't really native to the 616 universe, coming from hyperspace and piloting their big suits of armor to interact with 'our' reality, so it's conceivable that hyperspace isn't really affected by the destruction of 3-D universes in the Incursions and multiversal collapse, so that they're free to 'abandon ship' (or abandon their experiments, in any case). Galactus, though, is integrally tied to the universe, so if it goes he probably does too.

[Ite]

No, you're correct, that's exactly it. The Illuminati got as far as getting Galactus and the Celestials to meet with them, but then they disappeared, and where to or why has not been resolved.

The Celestials aren't really native to the 616 universe, coming from hyperspace and piloting their big suits of armor to interact with 'our' reality, so it's conceivable that hyperspace isn't really affected by the destruction of 3-D universes in the Incursions and multiversal collapse, so that they're free to 'abandon ship' (or abandon their experiments, in any case). Galactus, though, is integrally tied to the universe, so if it goes he probably does too.

Oh so the Celestials are not from our universe? There are not duplicate Celestials?

[vitruvian]

Oh so the Celestials are not from our universe? There are not duplicate Celestials?

There are inderd duplicate Celestials, as there are What If?s concerning things happening differently with the Celestials, and ones that are different such as the Mad Celestials, but that doesn't prevent Nathaniel Richards' theory about them being from hyperspace being a strong possibility. Either there are as many different versions of hyperspace as are needed to account for all the causal variations within the 3-D material universe that we call different universes, or if there's really only one set of them in their home dimension, they're constrained in how they act within a specific universe by how events have unfolded there.

But even if the Richards theory is inaccurate, they should be at least as capable as the Black Priests, the Builders, Hyperion, Super-Adaptoids of maintaining their own existence in that white void between universes.

[davew128]

If every What if story results in a new entry in the multiverse then I wonder if this multiverse Doom is still around or if his universe was destroyed?

My problem with that story is a Beyonder empowered Doom wearing the IG needed 400 years to defeat the Celestials and burnt out all the power he gained doing it. Umm, really?

[jackolover]

A confluence of factors -- advancement of technology, a large population, cultural awareness (and relative acceptance) of superheroes, homogenization of the world, probably other stuff.

Marvel's history shows that there have always been superheroes of sorts (e.g. Hickman's "S.H.I.E.L.D." series). Without TV cameras, though, most people would never know about them, nor would most people who ended up with powers be as inclined to reveal them. See the treatment mutants get.

It's no more mysterious that a lot of superheroes emerged in the recent past than it is that so many mutants began emerging when they did. Just as human biology evolved to a certain point, so, too, did technology, culture, etc.

I've not seen evidence for any of this.

Yes thanks Tres. It is worth realising advertising super human powers was probably a bad thing, like the mutant example, so I take your point. Maybe the FF and Spider-Man examples of starting to be proactive in public then, was a confidence in themselves to want to express themselves instead of hide? Sort of like a reflection of the new and fresh independence of the youth and protest movements that started springing up as a reaction against the 1950's conservatism and angst? Thanks for the insight.

[jackolover]

Nope, it doesn't. Fair number of superhumans all through history and prehistory. Big increase in (visible, the Eternals were always around) numbers during WWII. Maybe fewer public ones during the 50s, 60s, etc., but there were still some such as the First Line. Then boost in numbers again following the debut of the FF.

But how much of these fluctuations is the actual number of superhumans, and how much is a factor of how many of them opt to go public as costumed adventurers or menaces as a cultural thing, is kind of up in the air.

It is a fair point of how many have gone public, as we know Ezekiel shied away from the super hero game, so how many secret powered people are out there?

I like the idea that after 1961, a newly emerging faction of super heroes did go public. I'd like to analyse why they did go public and why maybe others may be hiding the fact. Certainly a string of villains showed up doing the same super powered activity at the same time, but not during the Monster Age, so something triggered this activity from 1961 onwards.

[vitruvian]

It is a fair point of how many have gone public, as we know Ezekiel shied away from the super hero game, so how many secret powered people are out there?

I like the idea that after 1961, a newly emerging faction of super heroes did go public. I'd like to analyse why they did go public and why maybe others may be hiding the fact. Certainly a string of villains showed up doing the same super powered activity at the same time, but not during the Monster Age, so something triggered this activity from 1961 onwards.

Peter Parker and Johnny Storm are not in their sixties now, so this was not in 1961. You keep forgetting.