100 Raptors vs 100 Apes

[Endless_Legend]

here we're running into the problem of the movie's inaccuracies. The animals in the movies were *not* Velociraptors, they were Dromaeosaurs. Actual raptors were about the size of a dog. So, chimps would be a match for those. For the Dromaeosaurs in the movie, something like Silverback Apes or African Lions would be a better match in lethality.

[The Drunkard Kid]

here we're running into the problem of the movie's inaccuracies. The animals in the movies were *not* Velociraptors, they were Dromaeosaurs. Actual raptors were about the size of a dog. So, chimps would be a match for those. For the Dromaeosaurs in the movie, something like Silverback Apes or African Lions would be a better match in lethality.

But this is specifically JP raptors vs. DotA Apes.

[Postmania]

There's no real problem here.

[Hiromi]

And really does someone have to point this out in every thread involving JP raptors? Even the movies acknowledge they're not real Velociraptors nowadays.

[Stigmazilla]

And really does someone have to point this out in every thread involving JP raptors? Even the movies acknowledge they're not real Velociraptors nowadays.

To be fair these also aren't regular chimps, they are modified to have at least human intelligence, and if given the time could make weapons and hunt down the raptors

[Holacik]

To be fair these also aren't regular chimps, they are modified to have at least human intelligence, and if given the time could make weapons and hunt down the raptors

Except they won't have time, they are in a setting where the Raptors can sneak up on them and pick them off. Providing they survive the first round of attacks their numbers will be massively reduced where creating crude weapons won't help much.

[Totoro Man]

did the chimps have opposable thumbs? if they don't have the versatility and dexterity of the human hand along with the added intelligence-- then the extra intelligence won't help them nearly as much as some people think.

I'm not sure using spears would help them as much as the legs are a REALLY important part of setting up a spear attack. I mean, yeah, having extremely strong arms could help offset the disadvantage of their tiny legs-- but I'm not sure it's enough to make spears a viable tactic for WINNING scenario 2. (does this mean that the chimps get prep-time and tools, as well?)

if the chimps start in the trees they get a couple of unfair advantages, sure. but they're also forced to create their weapons from scratch and throw them. not liking their odds there. and it will take time for them to make enough weapons to decisively defeat the dinosaurs.

if the chimps start out in an open field and have to RUN to the trees then they're as good as dead.

[Endless_Legend]

did the chimps have opposable thumbs? if they don't have the versatility and dexterity of the human hand along with the added intelligence-- then the extra intelligence won't help them nearly as much as some people think.

I'm not sure using spears would help them as much as the legs are a REALLY important part of setting up a spear attack. I mean, yeah, having extremely strong arms could help offset the disadvantage of their tiny legs-- but I'm not sure it's enough to make spears a viable tactic for WINNING scenario 2.

if the chimps start in the trees they get a couple of unfair advantages, sure. but they're also forced to create their weapons from scratch and throw them. not liking their odds there. and it will take time for them to make enough weapons to decisively defeat the dinosaurs.

if the chimps start out in an open field and have to RUN to the trees then they're as good as dead.

100 early humans with spears would have a better chance than 100 unarmed Dawn chimps.

Actually, 100 early hunter-gatherer humans with spears would probably win, and kill every single raptor, without suffering much in the way of losses. Human beings are fucking hardcore when you remove the trappings of civilization and get away from the sedentary existence of the average modern adult. Just look at the kind of stuff the Masai and Mandingo still do today.

[Stigmazilla]

did the chimps have opposable thumbs? if they don't have the versatility and dexterity of the human hand along with the added intelligence-- then the extra intelligence won't help them nearly as much as some people think.

I'm not sure using spears would help them as much as the legs are a REALLY important part of setting up a spear attack. I mean, yeah, having extremely strong arms could help offset the disadvantage of their tiny legs-- but I'm not sure it's enough to make spears a viable tactic for WINNING scenario 2. (does this mean that the chimps get prep-time and tools, as well?)

if the chimps start in the trees they get a couple of unfair advantages, sure. but they're also forced to create their weapons from scratch and throw them. not liking their odds there. and it will take time for them to make enough weapons to decisively defeat the dinosaurs.

if the chimps start out in an open field and have to RUN to the trees then they're as good as dead.

All chimps have opposable thumbs...

[Holacik]

100 early humans with spears would have a better chance than 100 unarmed Dawn chimps.

Actually, 100 early hunter-gatherer humans with spears would probably win, and kill every single raptor, without suffering much in the way of losses. Human beings are fucking hardcore when you remove the trappings of civilization and get away from the sedentary existence of the average modern adult. Just look at the kind of stuff the Masai and Mandingo still do today.

What? There no way that early humans are going to beat Raptors. The sides are even and the Raptors have feats of using coordinated attacks...

[Endless_Legend]

What? There no way that early humans are going to beat Raptors. The sides are even and the Raptors have feats of using coordinated attacks...

modern human hunter gatherer tribes still have rite-of-passage rituals that involve sending young men, armed only with a spear, to approach a pack of lions, pick a fight with one of them, and win. They do this regularly.

Ancient humans used to hunt in large groups and kill packs of sabertooth tigers, woolly mammoths, etc. Either by fighting them, or by literally running them to death, because we are the most hardcore long-distance pursuit land animal in the world. Nothing else can maintain a swift pace for 100 miles over land. We can.

Go do the research. Human beings are not to be fucked with, once you take our computers and governments and modern conveniences away. There's a reason we're the deadliest animal to have ever existed in history, and we were already that before we learned to farm or invent pottery.

[Gorthaur]

did the chimps have opposable thumbs? if they don't have the versatility and dexterity of the human hand along with the added intelligence-- then the extra intelligence won't help them nearly as much as some people think.

I'm not sure using spears would help them as much as the legs are a REALLY important part of setting up a spear attack. I mean, yeah, having extremely strong arms could help offset the disadvantage of their tiny legs-- but I'm not sure it's enough to make spears a viable tactic for WINNING scenario 2. (does this mean that the chimps get prep-time and tools, as well?)

Chimps actually have stronger leg muscles than humans, despite all appearances to the contrary. They don't have (as mentioned) human endurance, and probably not human throwing accuracy (due to differences in joint structure and nervous system motor neuron ratio). I imagine they'd be more similar to Neanderthal humans in their hunting/combat ability than to Homo Sapiens.

[Hiromi]

What a human has that a chimp does not have is fine motor control, a chimp might have the shoulder joint capable of throwing a spear, but probably not the ability to control it's muscles during the throw or release said spear in a manner that allows it to land anywhere remotely close to where it wants it to

This article sums it up pretty well http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-...379994/?no-ist

also debunks the 5-8 times stronger thing, it's likely somewhere in the 2-5 area(and it's related to size as well, important to note that, if a chimp and human can move the same weight with an arm despite being half the human's size, then a chimp's technically twice as strong as a human despite moving the same weight as a human)

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

What a human has that a chimp does not have is fine motor control, a chimp might have the shoulder joint capable of throwing a spear, but probably not the ability to control it's muscles during the throw or release said spear in a manner that allows it to land anywhere remotely close to where it wants it to

This is why they throw poop. It has a much wider spread.

Thrown Dookie, the Caveman's Scat-tergun.

[Bullet Sniper]

Cool fight, but yeah, i think I'm going to side with the apes here, especially if you don't restrict them their guns. But in a melee fight, the raptors in all likelihood painfully tear up the simian flesh of their opponents.