Kate Kane: Batwoman Appreciation 2018

[Caivu]

I'm really curious - what is your sense of how popular Kate's plot in Rebirth has been? I know you (Caivu) and I really like it, and I believe ProgmanX also likes it (haven't checked their reviews recently), but it seems like there's a lot of dissension among hardcore Kate fans about whether the Colony is a good addition to her mythology or not (and I don't count myself as a hardcore fan, though I do like her a lot.)

A lot of the dislike of the Colony, based on what I've seen, seems largely due to the perception that they're evil or even fascistic, somehow. The second one especially would be highly questionable description of a group for two Jewish characters to be leading, but even the first isn't correct, either: I've seen more than one person refer to the Colony as "paramilitary", which they aren't. They're a division of the Army, if a highly classified one.

I haven't been able to nail down any exact complaints beyond that, just a nebulous claim that Kate is "different" now, because of... reasons. I don't get that claim, since I keep track of that sort of thing and there have been relatively few and/or minor changes as long as she's been around.

In general, I've seen a slow warming up to things since "Fear and Loathing" started, though the major theme that's been revealed in more recent issues (the cyclical nature of violence, basically), doesn't seem to have largely clicked with people yet, I think.

[Caivu]

Fernando Blanco WIP:

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[millernumber1]

A lot of the dislike of the Colony, based on what I've seen, seems largely due to the perception that they're evil or even fascistic, somehow. The second one especially would be highly questionable description of a group for two Jewish characters to be leading, but even the first isn't correct, either: I've seen more than one person refer to the Colony as "paramilitary", which they aren't. They're a division of the Army, if a highly classified one.

I haven't been able to nail down any exact complaints beyond that, just a nebulous claim that Kate is "different" now, because of... reasons. I don't get that claim, since I keep track of that sort of thing and there have been relatively few and/or minor changes as long as she's been around.

In general, I've seen a slow warming up to things since "Fear and Loathing" started, though the major theme that's been revealed in more recent issues (the cyclical nature of violence, basically), doesn't seem to have largely clicked with people yet, I think.

I think the Colony is currently "rogue" - I thought after Gotham they were considered acting outside of their command structure? But as a fan of the Colony, I agree that they're neither evil or tyrranical. Questionable, antagonistic, absolutely. But they have clearly acted against their more evil elements, like the General.

I think the biggest specific complaint I've heard is that Jacob is now evil. Which...1) no he's not, and 2) he was already very much an antagonist at the end of Elegy and Go. The n52 just obscured that by flattening his character. I think if Rucka had stayed on, we wouldn't have gotten the Colony, but we would likely have gotten more conflict between Jake and Kate.

I definitely agree that Kate seems pretty solidly consistent with her pre-Rebirth characterization.

(I can't comment on Bennett's stuff, because I really dislike it. But I do think that it's not nearly as influential or controversial as the Colony in Tec - it seems more that people find Bennett's contributions kinda dull rather than "I hate it.")

[Caivu]

I think the Colony is currently "rogue" - I thought after Gotham they were considered acting outside of their command structure?

Officially, yes. Their actions in Gotham were not sanctioned... officially. I've said it before here, but the remnants of the Colony are not acting like fugitives. They're still conducting operations and Jacob is openly walking around Gotham. So I think it's a case where the guys who were captured by ARGUS were quietly released; the Colony strikes me as a project that has a lot of leeway before the government would actually shut it down. And if it really is that secretive, having a show of it being shut down would be beneficial.

[Caivu]

By Mirka Andolfo:

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[Oberon]

At times the colony plot seems more, or less important to the overall tale - or I'm missing some clues.

Where do you think this plot goes? It would seem to be bigger than Kate, though now with her "switching sides", it is sure to be more important to others, certainly Batfamily members.

[Caivu]

By Tony Moy:

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[Caivu]

At times the colony plot seems more, or less important to the overall tale - or I'm missing some clues.

Where do you think this plot goes? It would seem to be bigger than Kate, though now with her "switching sides", it is sure to be more important to others, certainly Batfamily members.

If the theory that Kate is going to dismantle it from the inside (for whatever reason) is correct, then that. If not, then maybe her solo will change gears into her leading the Colony on missions, I dunno.

[millernumber1]

Officially, yes. Their actions in Gotham were not sanctioned... officially. I've said it before here, but the remnants of the Colony are not acting like fugitives. They're still conducting operations and Jacob is openly walking around Gotham. So I think it's a case where the guys who were captured by ARGUS were quietly released; the Colony strikes me as a project that has a lot of leeway before the government would actually shut it down. And if it really is that secretive, having a show of it being shut down would be beneficial.

That makes sense. It is odd that Jacob still has access to infrastructure to support a helicarrier. (Back when Avengers first came out, I did a check on how many people crew on an aircraft carrier, and it was more people than usually are on the books for any one of the big three letter agencies. So...haha, yeah, the Colony is probably still somewhat sanctioned. In that hilariously unrealistic "we have a helicarrier" sort of way. )

[Punisher007]

I just hate what they've been doing with Jacob ever since the "reveal." It's cliché and dull and boring, etc. He was more interesting before all of this.

Also I'm bored with the "Bat-family constantly fighting itself" plots to, and unless Kate is playing double-agent and planning to take it down from the inside, I don't care for her joining The Colony either.

Basically it's all so dreadfully dull right now.

[Oberon]

Yes, I would think that Kate would try to dismantle or control it better. Depending on whether this shows up more in her title, I could see a way to use Bette as an agent, perhaps, since Bette seems to have an in with Jacob and some of his cohorts (question, I don't remember if they explained any 'thing' or connection between the Crow gang in BW's first title that took Bette in, or the colony?

But the idea of someone who is an out Lesbian and pretty defiant about it, trying to , perhaps covertly change or channel the Colony seems interesting. Maybe she will find out even far more dark secrets of her father or others.

[Oberon]

I'm willing to hang onto Jacob as possibly being a really deep below kind of agent. He always had an edge but this does seem different. I will probably do some rereading of many issues to get a better handle on it.

My problem is I let my comic shop pull really stack up. Then I try to read them all fast (which I can, but...) and maybe retain the stuff I need to keep moving on.

But I prefer Kate to either not be in the Batfamily or not be very directly involved in it. I want to see her and Flamebird 'invert' the Dynamic Duo, and to better results and stories.

[millernumber1]

I'm willing to hang onto Jacob as possibly being a really deep below kind of agent. He always had an edge but this does seem different. I will probably do some rereading of many issues to get a better handle on it.

My problem is I let my comic shop pull really stack up. Then I try to read them all fast (which I can, but...) and maybe retain the stuff I need to keep moving on.

But I prefer Kate to either not be in the Batfamily or not be very directly involved in it. I want to see her and Flamebird 'invert' the Dynamic Duo, and to better results and stories.

What do you normally pull that you've let stack up? I mean, I read pretty obsessively every Wednesday, but I'm only following about 5 or 6 titles max.

[Caivu]

More Blanco WIP:

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[Oberon]

I just can't get to my store weekly. Its in another city, and my commute to work etc is long enough. So in the past I've literally gone months without stopping by to pick up. Talk about Cha-Ching!

I've been better lately though.

My stack currently is:

Batwoman
Detective
Avengers (during NO Surrender, otherwise, possibly Uncanny Avengers and main title Avengers0
Black Bolt (author lives in the city where my comic store is!)
Royals - possibly another Inhuman title, but NOT ms. marvel (nothing personal, just not feeling it)

just started/will start Xmen Red (first x title I'll/may read in many years; Jean Grey)
The Phoenix Ressurection mini.

my main likes are team comics and/or with female characters. Sue, Wanda, Jan are the most!