Kate Kane: Batwoman Appreciation 2018

[Vworp Vworp]

Given the book's current sales, I'd assume we won't be seeing Kate for a while. Certainly if Gail Simone's excuse/reason for the absence of Steph' back in the early days of the New 52 are to be believed. When asked about DC's stance on Steph at that time, Gail posted the following response on her tumblr;

"This sucks, but Stephanie's book was not at the sales level they were hoping for with a Batgirl logo on it. This gets lost over and over in the timeline, but her book was already going to end before the new 52 thing happened. When that happens, there is usually a period where the character is deliberately held back for a while. It is NOT to be mean, honestly. It is to prevent bringing a character back in a method that doesn't change enough from what they were when they were cancelled.

There is even a not-too-pleasant term for it, "waiting for the smell to wear off.". If they don't do that, if they don't reposition properly, they are almost certainly setting that character up to fail again."

[electr1cgoblin]

Given the book's current sales, I'd assume we won't be seeing Kate for a while. Certainly if Gail Simone's excuse/reason for the absence of Steph' back in the early days of the New 52 are to be believed. When asked about DC's stance on Steph at that time, Gail posted the following response on her tumblr;

Regrettably, that makes a lot of sense. I tend to have a lot of favorites cancelled, and while I'd love to see them back again soon, it doesn't serve the character to just throw them out there again, only to fail and double down on the notion of their lack of marketability. I've seen it happen, quite recently, in fact, and it's very disheartening.

Personally, I think Kate's next appearance should be in a team book, where she doesn't have the burden of carrying the whole book. I thought she did fine with that in her own, but for newer readers who don't know her as well, it might be good to get the exposure without the responsibility, just for a while. Once she's proven how interesting she is, then consider a relaunch, with the RIGHT creators.

[Kurisu]

The difference is Stephanie isn't half as popular as Kate, and she was benched because despite the outrage and campaigning that went on after her death, fans didn't support her return. Kate doesn't have that baggage, so I doubt that idea holds much weight here.

She also has two statues coming out this year, so her "stench" mustn't be too ripe.

[Abishai100]

A lesbian superhero surely draws our attention to the bold direction DC Comics writers are willing to take to reach wider audiences in the modern era.

Let's distinguish between Kathy and Kate, both of whom don the Batwoman mantel. Kate experiments more with the dark side and is cast more as the representative lesbian, confounded by the ills of Gotham City and swearing to engage in acts of radical vigilantism.

Vigilantism is of course the main theme in Batman (DC Comics), since the Dark Knight often deals with the complex (and confusing) issue of criminal insanity (or mania/hysteria) and how it shockingly gives rise to mass terror in a city flooded by profiteers, mismanagement, daredevils, and crime syndicate bosses such as Black Mask.


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Let's position Kate/Batwoman in a mock trial involving Ra's al Ghul, Talia al Ghul, Two-Face, Man-Bat, and Nightwing:

"Batwoman: Vigilantism demands diligence and passion.
Ra's: Vigilantism implies a need for complete control.
Talia: Vigilantism mandates dialogue about self-governance.
Two-Face: Vigilantism is too dependent on mob psychology.
Nightwing: Batman would have wanted constant evaluation of tactics.
Man-Bat: Batman was naive, and we must be more vicious.
Talia: Do we want a lesbian representative?
Batwoman: Lesbians have the right attitude.
Nightwing: Since I am the judge, my verdict is that we need a formal council."

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Seduction of the Innocent

batwoman.jpg

[Starchild]

Maybe they can put Kane in a relaunch Birds of Prey title. Have her lead.

[electr1cgoblin]

Is everyone up to speed on what's happening in the monthly? I guess it's all a bit moot now, but I'd still like to discuss the events there, if no one else minds. There may be some spoilers (mild) so continue at your own risk.

***********SPOILER ALERT****************

I'm up to #38, and while I agree this run is not nearly as strong as the first one, I don't think it's flat out terrible. I've never been a huge fan of planting Kate firmly in the supernatural world, but I do find myself intrigued by the concept of the "Unknowns" (though I doubt they'll ever be called such), and some of the cult plot is enjoyable, as well as the interaction of the group.

What I don't like (and I assume most fans agree) is the way Kate has really become passive in her approach to things. Yes, I know she's been seduced/turned by Nocturna, so that's part of it, but even before that, her 'solution' to the relationship issues with Maggie was uncharacteristically passive, frustratingly so. She seems at this point like a character who is letting life happen to her, rather than actively shaping it, and that's not the Kate I grew to like in the series. Yes, she was a pawn of the DEO for a while, but even then she was raging against it and plotting ways to circumvent it. Now she seems like a victim and I honestly hope she isn't written this way in the future.

END SPOILERS

Thoughts?

[LostinFandom]

Is everyone up to speed on what's happening in the monthly? I guess it's all a bit moot now, but I'd still like to discuss the events there, if no one else minds. There may be some spoilers (mild) so continue at your own risk.

***********SPOILER ALERT****************

I'm up to #38, and while I agree this run is not nearly as strong as the first one, I don't think it's flat out terrible. I've never been a huge fan of planting Kate firmly in the supernatural world, but I do find myself intrigued by the concept of the "Unknowns" (though I doubt they'll ever be called such), and some of the cult plot is enjoyable, as well as the interaction of the group.

What I don't like (and I assume most fans agree) is the way Kate has really become passive in her approach to things. Yes, I know she's been seduced/turned by Nocturna, so that's part of it, but even before that, her 'solution' to the relationship issues with Maggie was uncharacteristically passive, frustratingly so. She seems at this point like a character who is letting life happen to her, rather than actively shaping it, and that's not the Kate I grew to like in the series. Yes, she was a pawn of the DEO for a while, but even then she was raging against it and plotting ways to circumvent it. Now she seems like a victim and I honestly hope she isn't written this way in the future.

END SPOILERS

Thoughts?

I honestly thought she was much more passive in the DOE fights than with the current stories. The plan to sabotage it all came about because her cousin and father sabotaged her and there were several issues where she was completely sidelined.

I think the Nocturna storyline is at least in part about mother issues. Maggie was the "good mother" figure, and when Kate messes up Maggie's relationship with Jamie she punishes herself by pursuing the "bad mother" Nocturna*. See the scene where Kate watches Nocturna from the courthouse window while awaiting news on Maggie's custody petition. There's something self flagellating about the whole thing.

I'm less certain about her fugue states and what they have to with Nocturna. (There mental connection was broken a few issues ago, so what it was, isn't what it is.) I get that they exist to give her some shared experience with her twin, but the root of it and the relation to her romantic life is harder to see. I'm grateful for the emphasis on mothers. So often in these stories the mothers are mostly written out. (It's one of my problems with the Selina Calabrese story, she has a father whose legacy she's upholding but no mother, because mothers aren't important.)

The Unknowns are in part about setting up a new kind of family unit. I can't picture either Rucka or Williams and Blackman going in this direction with Beth/Alice/Red Alice, and that's really necessary. The characters need to be open to new interpretations, or else they risk turning into pale imitations of themselves. (Rucka was doing a lot with doubling and replacing that I don't think anyone else could have brought to a conclusion. See Beth/Bette, Kate having a step mother named Cathy, the whole "Cutter" plot.)

I really don't know where Morgaine Le Fey fits into this. I can't even tell if this is supposed to be a variation on an earlier DC Comics Morgan Le Fey. The only Morgaine Le Fey I've read in DC before was in Madame Xanadu, which would make some behind the scenes parallels.

*I never read the original Nocturna story but came across a scan from it earlier where she's telling Bruce Wayne they should marry and adopt Jason Todd. Now I really think it's always about motherhood with her.

[Kurisu]

It was mentioned that Batwoman will come back and they may even already be talking to people about it. MIDNIGHTER was not meant to “fill a void.”

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/ji...n/1100-151595/

[Vworp Vworp]

So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?

[Shimbo]

So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?

I figure we may see her in something in the October solicitations. Eternal 2 might be launched then, and even though there are rumors it'll be Robin-centric, that's a good venue for her to show up in. Of course, I'd love to see her solo come up soon, but we might have to wait for a bit. It'll be interesting to see how they handle Kate when she does come back. Will they go with supernatural stuff or more street-level vigilante stuff? Time will tell, but Kate is too awesome of a character to stay in limbo for too long.

[LostinFandom]

So other than the Bombshell version of Kate having some involvement in that upcoming project, have we had any news on DCU Kate returning since Didio and Lee made that typically vague and non-committal remark waaaay back in March?

Nothing thus far. I keep hoping she'll start to show up in Detective Comics and whatever Eternal take 2 is.

[quinnzel]

I really hope that Kate gets a relaunched series soon but one that has a cohesive direction and creative team. I'm a huge fan of the character and was trade-waiting the series and a while back when they started a new arc (in the same vein as Catwoman and Batgirl) I got really excited about the idea of buying it on the regular and adding it to my pull-list. But the storyline looked like a complete mess, so I passed it up.

In my perfect world, Rucka didn't stop writing after Elegy, JH3 never left, and of course, Kate and Maggie got married.

[Kurisu]

A few comic bloggers with inside sources say a relaunch has been in the works for months and an announcement is imminent. This is, apparently, unrelated to the team book rumor that popped up around the initial post-Convergence announcement.

[Kurisu]

So, there's a Kate Easter egg in Arkham Knight. She leaves Bruce a voice mail about coming to she and Maggie's engagement party.

[Project Initiative Cascada]

So, there's a Kate Easter egg in Arkham Knight. She leaves Bruce a voice mail about coming to she and Maggie's engagement party.

I wish she was actually in the game physically. Kate is long overdue for a proper media portrayal. She would've been a great addition to the playable characters in this game.