RACHEL GREY/SUMMERS, the Phoenix/Mother Askani Appreciation

[OmegaPower]

It is, did you not read the book? Rachel early on wanted leadership. Storm demanded that they all follow her (Storm) and Storm ONLY decided on a vote, later on, because Rachel had a point and Storm clearly saw that the team was divided (Monet and Psylocke favored Rachel, Omega Sentinel (No longer on the team) favored Storm, while Jubilee remained neutral.) due to Storm expecting Leadership instead of earning or being elected to lead. Not to mention when conflict came up (Like with Omega Sentinel) the team disobey'd Storm in favor of Rachel and when Storm irrationally acted against Bloodline it was Rachel who restored Order.

Rachel has also been the one in-charge of the team's tactics, keeping the team coordinated, and coming up with plans which Storm even follows (And Monet follows much earlier than all the others even when Storm was still demanding they follow her lead). Monet has even come to call Rachel their Boss (She hasn't with Storm) and Psylocke, an experienced leader, has followed Rachel's orders without question as she trusts Rachel completely.

Where did Rachel EVER say that she would't listen to Psylocke or Monet or anyone else on the team? Fact is that Rachel has listened to their input and ultimately they deferred to Rachel in the end and Rachel, thus far, has been proven right in every situation that she took the lead.

Also you're incorrect, Rachel was the one that brought up the Leader issue early in the series and has taken command, without Storm knowing and Monet mainly following her, despite knowing that Storm wouldn't be happy yet she still followed anyway, than later Psylocke (Psylocke chose Rachel over Storm in regards to Omega Sentinel and now chose to follow Rachel without heading back to Storm). Storm never would have called a vote if Rachel didn't want to lead as no one else on the team expressed desire to be Leader over Storm but Rachel. Not to mention that no one else put forth the effort to lead, and thus earning Leadership, but Rachel.

I suggest re-reading the X-Men series again if you have it as what you described isn't the case at all.

That author isn't writing the current arc and the fact is that if that author wanted Storm as the leader than they've done a VERY poor show of it as Rachel has continued to take up leadership duties, with even Storm deferring to her, and Rachel ending up being correct every time Storm butted heads with her.

Rachel wasn't really interested in leading the team. She simply didn't like how Storm assumed she was the leader without asking anyone. If Rachel wanted to lead she wouldn't simply give it to Storm just because she apologized for her behavior.
Just because Rachel has been doing tactics for the X-men, again, doesn't mean she wants to lead. Yes, she gives them her input, and they normally go with her, doesn't mean she is leading. Just giving her valid opinion and when they agree they follow it, but any x-men does this.
All I've seen so far in this last arc is Rachel being herself, and having her friends follow her because they want and not because she is leading them.

[Sardorim]

Rachel wasn't really interested in leading the team. She simply didn't like how Storm assumed she was the leader without asking anyone. If Rachel wanted to lead she wouldn't simply give it to Storm just because she apologized for her behavior.
Just because Rachel has been doing tactics for the X-men, again, doesn't mean she wants to lead. Yes, she gives them her input, and they normally go with her, doesn't mean she is leading. Just giving her valid opinion and when they agree they follow it, but any x-men does this.
All I've seen so far in this last arc is Rachel being herself, and having her friends follow her because they want and not because she is leading them.

If she wasn't interested in leading than Rachel wouldn't have pushed against Storm's leadership or taken command, without Storm's knowledge, such as how she lead Monet against a perp. The entire team expected Storm to be angry about it and were confused when Storm let it slide that Rachel had taken action without her knowledge.

No, Rachel was willing to let Storm lead when Storm started acting like a Leader and showed that she valued the team. Due to that Storm has, over the course of the series, also been giving more and more leadership responsibilities to Rachel and even follows Rachel's battle plans/strategies. This shows that Storm now acknowledges Rachel and that Rachel IS willing to step up to be a Leader and not only because she and Storm were fighting earlier.

Not all X-Men do. How many times have the X-Men turned to Cyclops over other characters plans? A ton. The same is here, they chose to follow Rachel instead of waiting for orders from Storm. Rachel didn't force them to go with her (Or even order them to), they chose as they trusted her leadership.

I disagre, they are following Rachel's orders, after deciding to follow her, and Monet has called Rachel the boss. Rachel has also listened to Monet and Psylocke's feedback and the both of them still followed Rachel even when Rachel chose a different path and Monet still wasn't shaken, and still followed the the plan set by Rachel, even when she expressed worry over Rachel's mental state due to the Shi'ar presence.

[OmegaPower]

If she wasn't interested in leading than Rachel wouldn't have pushed against Storm's leadership or taken command, without Storm's knowledge, such as how she lead Monet against a perp. The entire team expected Storm to be angry about it and were confused when Storm let it slide that Rachel had taken action without her knowledge.

No, Rachel was willing to let Storm lead when Storm started acting like a Leader and showed that she valued the team. Due to that Storm has, over the course of the series, also been giving more and more leadership responsibilities to Rachel and even follows Rachel's battle plans/strategies. This shows that Storm now acknowledges Rachel and that Rachel IS willing to step up to be a Leader and not only because she and Storm were fighting earlier.

Not all X-Men do. How many times have the X-Men turned to Cyclops over other characters plans? A ton. The same is here, they chose to follow Rachel instead of waiting for orders from Storm. Rachel didn't force them to go with her (Or even order them to), they chose as they trusted her leadership.

I disagre, they are following Rachel's orders, after deciding to follow her, and Monet has called Rachel the boss. Rachel has also listened to Monet and Psylocke's feedback and the both of them still followed Rachel even when Rachel chose a different path and Monet still wasn't shaken, and still followed the the plan set by Rachel, even when she expressed worry over Rachel's mental state due to the Shi'ar presence.

Please post here exactly where Storm gave Rachel more leader responsibilities. Again you keep using your misinterpretations as facts. Rachel is good at tactics, that's why people ask for her opinion and she has more experience in space, which explain why Psylocke and Monet follow her. And then there's the fact that Rachel has connections with Deathbirth which explain even more why people may follow her. In this new arc Rachel didn't even ask anyone about going after those aliens home, not even Storm who was quite busy.

[WallStreeter]

If she wasn't interested in leading than Rachel wouldn't have pushed against Storm's leadership or taken command, without Storm's knowledge, such as how she lead Monet against a perp. The entire team expected Storm to be angry about it and were confused when Storm let it slide that Rachel had taken action without her knowledge.

No, Rachel was willing to let Storm lead when Storm started acting like a Leader and showed that she valued the team. Due to that Storm has, over the course of the series, also been giving more and more leadership responsibilities to Rachel and even follows Rachel's battle plans/strategies. This shows that Storm now acknowledges Rachel and that Rachel IS willing to step up to be a Leader and not only because she and Storm were fighting earlier.

When they attacked the Sisterhood's base, Rachel referred to herself as Second in Command so even that early Storm had become cool with Rachel having more leadership responsibilities. The rest of the team had no objections, etc. With all that Storm has to deal with she should be happy that Rachel was willing and able to step up.

[Sardorim]

Please post here exactly where Storm gave Rachel more leader responsibilities. Again you keep using your misinterpretations as facts. Rachel is good at tactics, that's why people ask for her opinion and she has more experience in space, which explain why Psylocke and Monet follow her. And then there's the fact that Rachel has connections with Deathbirth which explain even more why people may follow her. In this new arc Rachel didn't even ask anyone about going after those aliens home, not even Storm who was quite busy.

The moment Storm stopped planning missions or giving orders and had Rachel do all the planning and giving the orders. Even the rest of the team did this, such as Psylocke following Rachel's lead and orders, not waiting for Storm to give her an order.

No, I'm stating the facts that are in the book.

No, they DIDN'T ask Rachel for tactics. Rachel TOOK command they FOLLOWED. That's called LEADERSHIP. Even Storm followed what Rachel despite Psylocke and Storm BOTH being veteran leaders compared to Rachel whose still new to Leadership.

Rachel took the lead LONG before the Shi'ar arc, hence the conflict between Storm and herself and the rest of the team expecting Storm to be angry about discovering that Rachel had the team doing stuff without her knowledge.

When they attacked the Sisterhood's base, Rachel referred to herself as Second in Command so even that early Storm had become cool with Rachel having more leadership responsibilities. The rest of the team had no objections, etc. With all that Storm has to deal with she should be happy that Rachel was willing and able to step up.

The fact of the matter is that Rachel WANTS to lead but she also wants to learn from a Storm, as Storm is very experienced and Storm HAS trained Rachel in the past, who acts like the Leader that Rachel looked up to in the past. Storm on the other hand clearly has seen Rachel's potential and after the infighting ended she has trusted Rachel to handle nearly all the Leadership responsibilities and has taken to following Rachel's lead. There's simply no denying it, Rachel has stepped up and Storm is letting Rachel grow as a Leader.

[OmegaPower]

I give up. Clearly we will never agree on this matter since both of us has different interpretations of what is happening.

[ZNOP]

The moment Storm stopped planning missions or giving orders and had Rachel do all the planning and giving the orders. Even the rest of the team did this, such as Psylocke following Rachel's lead and orders, not waiting for Storm to give her an order.

No, I'm stating the facts that are in the book.

No, they DIDN'T ask Rachel for tactics. Rachel TOOK command they FOLLOWED. That's called LEADERSHIP. Even Storm followed what Rachel despite Psylocke and Storm BOTH being veteran leaders compared to Rachel whose still new to Leadership.

Rachel took the lead LONG before the Shi'ar arc, hence the conflict between Storm and herself and the rest of the team expecting Storm to be angry about discovering that Rachel had the team doing stuff without her knowledge.



The fact of the matter is that Rachel WANTS to lead but she also wants to learn from a Storm, as Storm is very experienced and Storm HAS trained Rachel in the past, who acts like the Leader that Rachel looked up to in the past. Storm on the other hand clearly has seen Rachel's potential and after the infighting ended she has trusted Rachel to handle nearly all the Leadership responsibilities and has taken to following Rachel's lead. There's simply no denying it, Rachel has stepped up and Storm is letting Rachel grow as a Leader.

But, I was given the impression that Rachel was getting all of that invaluable training and experience from Emma Frost

[AbnormallyNormal]

Rachel should become more of a field squad commander, Storm more of a HQ grandmaster and occasionally going off into solo adventures a la Wolverine? Rachel seriously needs to meet with Cyclops and Tean though... I mean that seems really weird she hasn't talked with them much at all lately

[Daithi]

I can see both arguments. Rachel isn't the official leader but she has taken control of the sub-group of her Betsy and Monet. Likewise during AvX when she took command of the JGS school when they were fighting the Avengers.

So she's not the official leader but showing leadership qualities. That's a good thing and if we had a more permanent creative team for this you could easily build upon it and have Rachel acknowledged as the leader or as said the Field Leader.

[Sardorim]

Indeed, Rachel HAS been taking more and more leadership responsibilities even before the series and is growing as a character due to her wanting to be more involved in leading the X-Men. Her willingness to put in the work, her stepping up when she sees an issue, and her willingness to listen to those under her command are showing signs of a great X-Leader in the making.

The only issue is that another team, down the line, may ignore her growing Leadership presence and use her as only Wallpaper like is typical with a lot of characters who receive development and aren't lucky enough to be Cyclops or the such.

However, Rachel being a Summers and the #1 TP user does garner some hope that she wont be fully discarded to limbo.

In other news, my past initiatives for Rachel have borne fruit at Marvel Heroes and Avengers Alliance, seems that after learning of the character many more are interested in her making a fully playable appearance. It's also good that so many are against Rachel being made a mere costume for her mother on Marvel Heroes while a year ago many were for it, now it's only a small minority of users there that are cool with it and generally it's either due to not knowing Rachel's character or wanting another character in-game instead so they want Gazillion to spend more time on what they want.

Basically, both on the Forums and In-Game Rachel has generally been met with positivity in regards to her being Playable and hostility when someone, who doesn't get the character, insists that she must be a costume only so Gazillion can work on another character that they want.

I give up. Clearly we will never agree on this matter since both of us has different interpretations of what is happening.

Rachel stepped up and that has been a reoccurring theme since the series started and the team was formed. Storm has also loosened up and given more and more say to Rachel and Monet even considers Rachel to be the "Boss" and has been following Rachel the earliest. You also don't tough on how Psylocke IGNORED Storm's orders and listened to Rachel in regards to Omega Sentinel or the fact that when they assaulted Arkea one last time the team was listening to Rachel's orders.

But, I was given the impression that Rachel was getting all of that invaluable training and experience from Emma Frost

She hasn't trained with Emma Frost in a very long time and Emma never encouraged Rachel to be a full-on Leader.

[somacula]

Rachel showed up in punisher last issue!

[Sardorim]

Rachel showed up in punisher last issue!

What did she do in it? Was it only a short cameo? I don't read Punisher as I don't really see a reason why she would appear there.

In other news, it's a bit annoying that Rachel wasn't even shown at the school she's a Professor at when Storm did her speech. She wasn't even in the crowd as far as I can tell yet they can QQ there.

[glorian]

What did she do in it? Was it only a short cameo? I don't read Punisher as I don't really see a reason why she would appear there.

The Rachel in the Punisher book is not Rachel Summers

[ZNOP]

The Rachel in the Punisher book is not Rachel Summers

Correct, it's Rachel Cole-Alves... Although, she looks eerily like Rachel Grey.

[Vaishakh]

In other news, it's a bit annoying that Rachel wasn't even shown at the school she's a Professor at when Storm did her speech. She wasn't even in the crowd as far as I can tell yet they can QQ there.

Probably has to do with the fact that she wasnt inverted and will never join up with Apocalypse in her right mind