RACHEL GREY/SUMMERS, the Phoenix/Mother Askani Appreciation

[Askani's Flame]

But Phoenix is her mother not Jean.
I read gold today because my friend pick it up and the way Jean acts with Rachel reminds me of my stepmom, be nice to the kids only when daddy is around lol.

Not true. 811 Jean is Rachel's mother, not 616 nor the Phoenix. While Claremont may have envisioned Rachel being an immaculate conception between 811-Jean and the Phoenix, it's not canon.

[AHRNIHAL]

I think you mean decades instead of years.

A couple thoughts, as I haven't even read it yet but based on comments in multiple threads:
1) I think this kinda establishes that the timeline for Gold and Red is: Gold up until right before the wedding, Phoenix Resurrection, Red Annual, Wedding thru End of Gold, start of Red series.
2) Interesting that Jean finds no trace of Mesmero but also no trace of Cassandra Nova.... did he write this before the Red Annual, or didn't know/care?
3) The writing is terrible for multiple reasons. The quotes? The condescension from Jean? Really?!?! The only time Jean ever would have responded to Rachel like that would have been waaaaaay back before she made amends with her in Excalibur. So out of character for both.
4) Guggenheim is a TERRIBLE writer, but we knew this. It also confirms that THE X-EDITORS DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THEIR JOB, OR WHAT THEIR JOB IS. To have multiple characters in multiple books with no editing of how characterizations go? It's pretty bad.
5) Guggenheim has essentially trashed both Rachel and Kitty, which will likely lead to one of them dying during Extermination. Sadly I think it's our girl...

1)What happened to gambit-rouge's marriage then?

[bell]

Not true. 811 Jean is Rachel's mother, not 616 nor the Phoenix. While Claremont may have envisioned Rachel being an immaculate conception between 811-Jean and the Phoenix, it's not canon.

Then that is a really mess up way to ask a time displacement child to be still.

It would be better for her parents to be Cyclops and the Phoenix. Jean is not conected to the pf now and if Cyclops comes back and the Phoenix too then we will have baby Rachel.

[Wiccan]

Then that is a really mess up way to ask a time displacement child to be still.

It would be better for her parents to be Cyclops and the Phoenix. Jean is not conected to the pf now and if Cyclops comes back and the Phoenix too then we will have baby Rachel.

???? What.

[Askani's Flame]

1)What happened to gambit-rouge's marriage then?

I'm not following. Their wedding happened in the part of my post called "Wedding thru End of Gold".

???? What.

I know, I'm not following. I think they are saying that feel Jean should have no connection to Rachel whatsoever and that they should retcon Rachel's entire history to now only be the child of Cyclops and the Phoenix-Jean replica from 811 (which Jean 811 had lost the Phoenix/lobotomized when she conceived Rachel in current canon). And that if/when Cyclops returns and if/when they bring a new Phoenix host they'll get together and have a non-Grey 616 Rachel Grey.....

Regardless, I really find the scene distasteful and will be too glad when Guggenheim leaves the books.

[ClanAskani]

Can someone scan the page? I want to see exactly how bad it is before I get pissed off.

Enough has happened between Rachel and Jean after Rachel came to the 616 that her parentage doesn't even matter. The same with Scott. Any retcons to whoever Rachel's parents are doesn't take away Jean in the Askani future standing knee-deep in blood holding Rachel's comatose body.

People who take tests on 23 & Me and find out their dad isn't their biological dad don't suddenly have nothing to do with their dad.

It's the same as adoptive parents who took to heart that Nathan is Jean's son in "every way that truly mattered" (although, genetically she is his mom, she just didn't give birth to him, but nevermind that).

[AHRNIHAL]

I'm not following. Their wedding happened in the part of my post called "Wedding thru End of Gold".



I know, I'm not following. I think they are saying that feel Jean should have no connection to Rachel whatsoever and that they should retcon Rachel's entire history to now only be the child of Cyclops and the Phoenix-Jean replica from 811 (which Jean 811 had lost the Phoenix/lobotomized when she conceived Rachel in current canon). And that if/when Cyclops returns and if/when they bring a new Phoenix host they'll get together and have a non-Grey 616 Rachel Grey.....

Regardless, I really find the scene distasteful and will be too glad when Guggenheim leaves the books.

No slight mention of rouge in red,gambit as a married man etc,etc.

[Wiccan]

Can someone scan the page? I want to see exactly how bad it is before I get pissed off.

Enough has happened between Rachel and Jean after Rachel came to the 616 that her parentage doesn't even matter. The same with Scott. Any retcons to whoever Rachel's parents are doesn't take away Jean in the Askani future standing knee-deep in blood holding Rachel's comatose body.

People who take tests on 23 & Me and find out their dad isn't their biological dad don't suddenly have nothing to do with their dad.

It's the same as adoptive parents who took to heart that Nathan is Jean's son in "every way that truly mattered" (although, genetically she is his mom, she just didn't give birth to him, but nevermind that).

It's not that bad I guess, it wasn't portrayed as being a big deal. Just annoying that Guggs wrote that.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Though isn't that a bit of a way of whitewashing Scott for abandoning his wife and child, they went that much further then by making Maddy go bad as well...Rachel needs to be apart from Jean and be her own character...

[butterflykyss]

It's not that bad I guess, it wasn't portrayed as being a big deal. Just annoying that Guggs wrote that.

why would jean fell rachel that ? i thought jean was her mom.

[ClanAskani]

I can't tell if the "I'm not your mother" line was suppose to be in reaction to the way Rachel said Mom since mom was in quotes. But I'll bug Guggenheim about it on Twitter.

I met him at a signing a few weeks ago. He says he's afraid of this forum, btw.

[comradepitrovsky]

Can someone scan the page? I want to see exactly how bad it is before I get pissed off.

Enough has happened between Rachel and Jean after Rachel came to the 616 that her parentage doesn't even matter. The same with Scott. Any retcons to whoever Rachel's parents are doesn't take away Jean in the Askani future standing knee-deep in blood holding Rachel's comatose body.

People who take tests on 23 & Me and find out their dad isn't their biological dad don't suddenly have nothing to do with their dad.

It's the same as adoptive parents who took to heart that Nathan is Jean's son in "every way that truly mattered" (although, genetically she is his mom, she just didn't give birth to him, but nevermind that).

This. Rachel could turn out tk be the child of Adam X and, i dunno, Husk - that still wouldnt change the fact that Rachel considere Jean and Scott her parents, and they consider her their daughter.

[butterflykyss]

I can't tell if the "I'm not your mother" line was suppose to be in reaction to the way Rachel said Mom since mom was in quotes. But I'll bug Guggenheim about it on Twitter.

I met him at a signing a few weeks ago. He says he's afraid of this forum, btw.

I met him too he is a real nice guy but based upon what he writes he should be lol.

[raidensix]

It was out of character for Jean specially since she sought Rachel out after her resurrection. The line should have been reworded as:" I'm not your mom "mom", Rachel" to add some familiarity.

Anyway, Rachel has been demoted to the most powerful telepath during the Xavier's will arc to an on-the-way-out-dont-let-the-door-hit-you telepath.

[Knives]

Though isn't that a bit of a way of whitewashing Scott for abandoning his wife and child, they went that much further then by making Maddy go bad as well...Rachel needs to be apart from Jean and be her own character...

Agree but this does not necessarily mean forgetting your origins or giving up on people you care about. The truth is that Gold was a waste of time for Rachel they first cut off any relationship from her to Phoenix, then cut off her relationship with Scott and Jean (though Red says otherwise), give her a new retro uniform and make a point of saying each issue her powers are getting stronger however she is controlled by a third-category villain.

Even the relationship with Kurt was over (probably better this way) and Rachel Dark saga was a bad joke.