RACHEL GREY/SUMMERS, the Phoenix/Mother Askani Appreciation

[Daymare]

I say going back to Summers is a good start. If people/editors/writers are concerned she's always in Jean's shadow, giving her Jean's last name and code names are not the way to resolve anything. Rachel doesn't need to get the Phoenix back. The Phoenix is a shitty concept at this point that has been ruined by QQ, Hope, and AvX. Have her explore her Askani memories (fractured by she still has some) and trainings. She'll be badass in no time. She was, in fact, the creator of the fighting technique using the psiscimatar.

I do agree she doesn't need it. The funny thing to me was the whole time she had the phoenix it was never really treated as a seperate "entity" so much. I always just took it as an extenstion of her power-I don't recall it speaking through her like it does now or just up and leaving when it feel like it. She always referred to it has her power and wielded like a boss (that and she had the damn coolest looking effects with it) If they went back to using her power signature to emulate it that would be fine too.
It think your idea of the psiscimatar is great.

[Askani's Flame]

I do agree she doesn't need it. The funny thing to me was the whole time she had the phoenix it was never really treated as a seperate "entity" so much. I always just took it as an extenstion of her power-I don't recall it speaking through her like it does now or just up and leaving when it feel like it. She always referred to it has her power and wielded like a boss (that and she had the damn coolest looking effects with it) If they went back to using her power signature to emulate it that would be fine too.
It think your idea of the psiscimatar is great.

The majority, if not the whole time, Rachel wielded the Force it kept it's true nature from her so that it wouldn't tempt her or corrupt her the way it was when it took on the guise of Jean Grey. So when it finally did reveal itself to Rachel after it brought her back to life, it decided that she was the true heir of it's power and to essentially become dormant and allow her full access. Then it truly was the extension of her powers. But once it left Rachel and they made Jean Phoenix again, the PF consciousness was revived.

And yes, how awesome would she look wielding that weapon? Where is Blaquesmith and why isn't he training her (or involved with this Askani nonsense in WatX)?!?!?

[Sardorim]

Ugh, it angers me when ignorant non-comic readers, or even non-X-Books readers, make incorrect statements such as "Rachel Summers is the same as Jean!". It's insulting as she's very different and unique!

I was surprised when I did an awareness campaign for Marvel Heroes about Rachel and so many had no idea who she was or why she should be a full on character instead of a costume for Jean. At least many were glad for the information but it's still very troubling that the mindset that Rachel = Jean is so prominent even though Rachel has been around for years.

There's also the excuse that Rachel was meant to replace Jean and those that believe this had no idea that Rachel and Jean actually interacted and were in the same comics at one point!

[Askani's Flame]

I was surprised when I did an awareness campaign for Marvel Heroes about Rachel and so many had no idea who she was or why she should be a full on character instead of a costume for Jean. At least many were glad for the information but it's still very troubling that the mindset that Rachel = Jean is so prominent even though Rachel has been around for years.

I wish I could say I was surprised with that. Essentially Rachel has had no market exposure until the past few years (Hasbro's Marvel Girl toy, the current BotA card game on IOS phones/machines) so they would probably not not know her. But under that rationale wouldn't X-23 just be a skin for Wolverine? LAAAME

[bango]

Latour's WAX is shameful. I vote it's excised from canon.

Can Nocenti and Davis work on a Rachel story? Their story could easily override this deuce.

[Sardorim]

I wish I could say I was surprised with that. Essentially Rachel has had no market exposure until the past few years (Hasbro's Marvel Girl toy, the current BotA card game on IOS phones/machines) so they would probably not not know her. But under that rationale wouldn't X-23 just be a skin for Wolverine? LAAAME

Actually the same people that supported Rachel being a mere costume are the ones that don't see why X-23 is being released as a fully playable character instead of a costume for Wolverine.

They even admit not knowing anything about the characters and still don't see what's wrong with asking such things!

Ugh.. Well, I wont give up. I plan to keep promoting Rachel at the very least on Avengers Alliance and Marvel Heroes since if she can get into games like those it will really help her exposure a lot.

[Celestialbodies]

I see what you're saying here, but I meant more as the team telepath, not Jean's wider role.

That I can understand I just think she needs her own thing not tied to her mother.

The bolded part is correct, as that is how she was introduced when she arrived to 616. Any codenames or affinities to the PF came after she was already on the team.



I feel like you have three sentences in here. I understand the concept of a stand-in, but your broad explanation would mean that Psylocke and Storm were also Jean stand-ins, filling roles as women or telepaths. Meaning that Betsy was a stand in for Rachel, as Claremont wanted the team to have a telepath. And when did Rachel say, "Yes Xavier, I'm joining the team because Jean Grey was my mom and I want to be connected to her"? The X-Men were her family, her family that she saw slaughtered (or unwillingly helped slaughter) in her timeline. And now they are alive, different, but alive. You wouldn't take solace in wanting to be with them, regardless of your parentage? Joining the X-Men gave her an opportunity to stop being a teenager on the run and start making a new life for herself. And to prevent her future from coming true. Of course her connection to Jean is going to come up, and yes once she heard what happened to the Jean in the reality she was determined to do her proud and try to undo some of the damage to the Grey name. But that is a stretch to say that her motivating factor to join the X-Men was because of Jean.



Slow down, it will help you with your run-on sentences and punctuation. Excalibur was definitely one of the best moves for her character, but she still dealt with being Jean and Scott's child throughout her travels in the multiverse. Yes Jean eventually surpassed Xavier in TP, but I would say that only happened much later after her resurrection. I'm lost in your run-ons so I'm not sure what point you're making prior to the relationship bit. Yes, especially now with her last name changed to "Grey", Rachel is linked to Jean (personally I go more Kitty than Jean, but that's me). I don't see the problem with it, it's a familial tie. You'd be hard pressed to make that claim with Xavier and Jean, as the natural person you think of for Xavier would be Magneto.



"End of Greys" was about Rachel, and Jean in terms of familial and Phoenix connections. The legacy of Jean and the legacy of Rachel being a former host and being related to Jean. By your insinuations you could essentially swap Rachel and Jean in this story and have the same story told, which is utterly ridiculous. Had Jean been the focal character and not Rachel, the whole premise of the Grey gathering would not have happened. It would have have the same title, but the story would have to be drastically different.



Wait, why does anyone need to sit and think about why Rachel is on a team? She has her own history with the X-Men that her inclusion is warranted outside of Jean. Sure there are definitely correlations to her arrival but it's not always because Jean is gone or dead. Claremont wanted to bring Rachel back much sooner in Xtreme X-Men but they were told Psylocke was to remain dead longer and Rachel was still under Weinberg's pen. So her inclusion came later as Bogan's TP. But back to the point at hand, everytime Rachel comes back there is no reason to ponder why is Rachel being used and not Jean. That's for you Jean fans to worry about. And no, I don't think that her being in XX would be a better fit, she doesn't have ANY of the same dynamics that Rachel does with these characters. Rachel has a different, and in some cases stronger, connection to the XX ladies than Jean. And there is nothing wrong with that. If Jean was in the book it would be entirely different than what it is now. Hell, I don't even think she'd be associated with the JGS, she'd be too pissed with Schism to be associated with either of Logan or Scott's schools.



It sounds like you are going out of your way to invalidate her, TBH. She's not always Jean's filler, but sometimes yes it does look that way. And I don't think her connection to Jean is the reason no one uses her, it's because writers and editors are lazy and have pets they are trying to push. Hope was the biggest Jean troll, and of Rachel to a certain extent. Now it's Quentin with this Askani arc in WatX (which is definitely a Rachel story with no Jean element). Until writers actually do some research and get to know her character, they will continue to keep her out of things because she's "too confusing" otherwise. Hell, I'm still waiting for a Jean Rachel team-up (when real Jean comes back) to show how they are different characters and can exist in a book without 616 exploding.

And then went on to do what? Adopt all of those things!!!


Wait when did Storm or Psylocke adopt Jean's powers, codenames, and mantle? Because then surely I guess they could be stand in's as well. And she never said that to Xavier she just spent a not small part of her time reflecting on Jean while on said team and walking a very familiar line that Jean once had. And you're right joining the X-men did give her an opportunity now tell me what was Rachel's biggest influence left with the X-men after her first joining? It's one thing to join a team and attempt to bring some redemption to your dead alternate reality mother it's another to essentially become her in name and power, I mean at least Cable didn't run around as the Goblyn King!!! Thank GOD!!!!




Which meant what? Xavier and Jean are two SEPARATE characters hell even Xavier and Magneto with all their history are still two separate characters who shared something, with Rachel it's quite the opposite because so much of what she is isn't actually her's. Even before she surpassed Xavier though, the characters were never so connected, though there was a teacher student relationship they were still able to function individually without taking from one another which is my point.



End of Grey was a Jean Grey story, that was fitted for Rachel hence, Rachel's sudden surname change to "Grey" it didn't even make sense within the context of the story that it would be Rachel especially when she never really even had a meaningful relationship to Jean let alone Jean's family. It would of been different and made a tad bit more sense given it was actually Jean's family and not Rachel's which is probably why Bendis opted to ignore Rachel's involvement. I say this not envious of End of Grey even though I know it will be interpreted that way by some that I am, but I'm just speaking my honest opinion about it one I held even when it first came out.



Because it becomes obvious that she's there merely because Jean isn't when Storm is on a team it's because the character deserves it the same with Emma, Psylocke, Kitty, or Rogue versus as a substitute for her mother which in some cases is even mentioned. And the problem comes when Rachel is on a team still leeching off of her mother's legacy instead of creating her own which is why she remains ignored and irrelevant to a lot of writers. And you believe that Rachel would of been in XX instead of Jean had she been alive, then I have a bridge to sell you, hell they won't even let a Rachel anywhere near a teenage version.....




Actually I'm not if Cable was using the name Cyclops and wearing his old uniforms and only join the X-men when Scott was gone then I'd say the same thing about him, it's not that Rachel is a bad character its that she doesn't have anything original or all her own that writers want to write about. Which keeps her sidelined and its something that should be acknowledged by her fans not ignored. And it is one of the reasons no one uses her because THEY feel she's too similar to Jean or uninteresting it's why she was ignored in Endsong, and AvX and while like you said she is ignored currently in Watx because the desire to use her isn't there. Which is my point let's get her out of situations and stories where the immediate comparison is Jean and instead the focus is on solely Rachel. Which could mean maybe a different type of team like Excalibur was. I truly believe that a team X-force like but with less killing could be awesome for Rachel and I too look forward to the day Jean and Rachel can take down baddies together.


Look guys I know I may come off as trolling the character but I'm just giving my opinion on some of the issues that afflict the character.





PS. Being a grammar Nazi doesn't make you seem intelligent, it instead makes you come off as pompous or highly uptight you can relax this is a comic book forum for God sake not a thesis, dissertation, or anything of real important besides slight amusement for people who love comic books and these amazing characters.

No it wasn't. It was to tie in to Rachel's DOFP history when her family was killed there too. Her family dead and Sentinels surrounding the mansion and mutants being wiped out. She says it to Betsy that history is repeating and she can't stop it.

Yes, yes I'm sure when Claremont was crafting End of "Greys", Rachel SUMMERS was the first thing to come to his mind and his complete inspiration for the entire thing. A story about Jean Grey's family being slaughtered and killed because of Jean Grey's time as the Phoenix but with Rachel yeah now that seems organic!!!

[Daithi]

Yes, yes I'm sure when Claremont was crafting End of "Greys", Rachel SUMMERS was the first thing to come to his mind and his complete inspiration for the entire thing. A story about Jean Grey's family being slaughtered and killed because of Jean Grey's time as the Phoenix but with Rachel yeah now that seems organic!!!

You're wrong. The story and subsequent stories from that time are about DoFP with the death of the Grey family, the Sentinels and the wiping out of mutants. It's even referenced in the first page of the story. Jean's history in the story is a plot device nothing more. It's a McGuffin to have the Shi'ar kill the Greys.

It's not the story of the Grey Family being killed. It's the story of Rachel watching history repeat.

15cdb22a818ddffffbb85ec2ee98e9b8.jpg

[Askani's Flame]

And then went on to do what? Adopt all of those things!!!

Oh I'm not disputing that, it just sounded like that when she arrived in 616 all those things were true when she joined the X-Men, which only the TK/TP and the Jean bit was.

Wait when did Storm or Psylocke adopt Jean's powers, codenames, and mantle? Because then surely I guess they could be stand in's as well. And she never said that to Xavier she just spent a not small part of her time reflecting on Jean while on said team and walking a very familiar line that Jean once had. And you're right joining the X-men did give her an opportunity now tell me what was Rachel's biggest influence left with the X-men after her first joining? It's one thing to join a team and attempt to bring some redemption to your dead alternate reality mother it's another to essentially become her in name and power, I mean at least Cable didn't run around as the Goblyn King!!! Thank GOD!!!!

Well there was that time Psylocke switched powers with Jean lol. I brought Storm into the conversation because she became the Jean stand-in in terms of being the female voice and power on the team. As the original team telepath, once Jean left the comics and it was determined that they needed one again, Rachel and Psylocke then fit the roles as the female team telepath, a role Jean defined for X-Men. Since then the team essentially hasn't been without a telepath. I'm not blind to the fact of the clear affinity to Jean and how Claremont viewed that. It's part of why Rachel exists in comics. And her powers were set before she was even she entered 616, so that's a moot point. And yes of course she was going to reflect on Jean because when she expected her to be alive, she was dead. And she had to come to grips with both the changes in the timeline but also that she was an anomaly and would not exist. So the character eventually took on her mantle as Phoenix in honor of Jean. And lest we forget that the whole reason Rachel adopted the moniker of "Marvel Girl" and that outfit was at Jean's request via the homeoempathic crystal Jean left for her.

Which meant what? Xavier and Jean are two SEPARATE characters hell even Xavier and Magneto with all their history are still two separate characters who shared something, with Rachel it's quite the opposite because so much of what she is isn't actually her's. Even before she surpassed Xavier though, the characters were never so connected, though there was a teacher student relationship they were still able to function individually without taking from one another which is my point.

So Rachel and Jean are EXACTLY the same character? Beyond all of the powers/codenames/red hair are you saying that they are exactly the same. Personality wise? What drives them? How they think and relate to others? Because they couldn't be different in all of those aspects. Rachel and Jean are not interchangeable. They react, interact, and handle life and their powers differently.

End of Grey was a Jean Grey story, that was fitted for Rachel hence, Rachel's sudden surname change to "Grey" it didn't even make sense within the context of the story that it would be Rachel especially when she never really even had a meaningful relationship to Jean let alone Jean's family. It would of been different and made a tad bit more sense given it was actually Jean's family and not Rachel's which is probably why Bendis opted to ignore Rachel's involvement. I say this not envious of End of Grey even though I know it will be interpreted that way by some that I am, but I'm just speaking my honest opinion about it one I held even when it first came out.

I don't think you're envious at all, totally doesn't come off that way. Rachel had changed her name way before "EoG", so it wasn't that dramatic that when the story started she just changed it. That change was in response to Scott and Emma, which was explained essentially when she returned to the team in Uncanny. As a way of trying to mend fences, they introduced John and Elaine to Rachel in the holiday annual and they all seemed happy to welcome her into the family. So the idea of her wanting to spend time with them (especially with Sentinels guarding the school like they did when she was at the concentration camp) made sense. But part of the whole premise of EoG was that history can repeat itself, with Sentinels and the death of her family. Which are part of Rachel's unique history. Like I said before, if Jean was meant to be in this story, the premise and ideas would have been extremely different and the story would have been completely different on all fronts.

Because it becomes obvious that she's there merely because Jean isn't when Storm is on a team it's because the character deserves it the same with Emma, Psylocke, Kitty, or Rogue versus as a substitute for her mother which in some cases is even mentioned. And the problem comes when Rachel is on a team still leeching off of her mother's legacy instead of creating her own which is why she remains ignored and irrelevant to a lot of writers. And you believe that Rachel would of been in XX instead of Jean had she been alive, then I have a bridge to sell you, hell they won't even let a Rachel anywhere near a teenage version.....

So the fact that Rachel and Storm are close and have served on teams in the past means that EVERY time it really should be Jean instead? Please show where it is explicitly stated that the sole reason Rachel is on a team is because she's the next best thing to Jean and Jean isn't around. Because I don't remember seeing that. Her involvement with XX is because they built Rachel into being a larger role (in the beginning) of the Jean Grey school. With the X-Women at their disposal, editors saw Rachel had her own ties to many of those women that did not revolve around Jean. I wish they would do some arcs around Rachel that don't involve Jean, it would be great because then she wouldn't be "leeching" off Jean. But some of the unique characteristics of Rachel have been shopped around to other characters or stories. So it will be up to editors and writers to come up with something new, which we all know they don't do these days. But to your last point about Rachel vs Jean in XX, i wouldn't be surprised if they were both in it for the dynamic. Would be nice for a change. But the reality is that Jean wasn't taken off the roster to make room for Rachel. Jean has been dead for a long time and even if she was, there is no way of saying that this book would exist. I think a LOT of things would be different (and better) if Jean were alive and in the books right now. But she's not. It just sounds like you are complaining that any appearance of Rachel on an X-team is an opportunity taken from Jean, which isn't true. I also disagree with you on the notion that every time someone is used on a team they deserve it.

[Askani's Flame]

Actually I'm not if Cable was using the name Cyclops and wearing his old uniforms and only join the X-men when Scott was gone then I'd say the same thing about him, it's not that Rachel is a bad character its that she doesn't have anything original or all her own that writers want to write about. Which keeps her sidelined and its something that should be acknowledged by her fans not ignored. And it is one of the reasons no one uses her because THEY feel she's too similar to Jean or uninteresting it's why she was ignored in Endsong, and AvX and while like you said she is ignored currently in Watx because the desire to use her isn't there. Which is my point let's get her out of situations and stories where the immediate comparison is Jean and instead the focus is on solely Rachel. Which could mean maybe a different type of team like Excalibur was. I truly believe that a team X-force like but with less killing could be awesome for Rachel and I too look forward to the day Jean and Rachel can take down baddies together.

Again, who told/asked Rachel to take her old costume (with some modifications) and moniker? Jean. Not Rachel. Marvel Girl was all Jean/the writers & editors idea. Her time as Phoenix is the only time she actively took on Jean's codename, and used her DP costume for a short period. And they have actually tried to ignore her time as Phoenix in the books, which is just stupid. And as to joining the X-Men when Jean is gone, I can't speak for the motivation of the writers and editors. I already mentioned Claremont's plans for Rachel prior to Jean's death, which would have had some level of interaction between them. Rachel being shunted out of the books to make way for Jean has happened a lot in the past, for a variety of reasons, but it is what it is. She wasn't used in Endsong because the story was about Jean and Phoenix, which I was fine with as I really liked the story. And she also made a cameo at the end. AvX was a shitshow and while she should have had a more prominent role I'm glad that she didn't as they shat on the X-Men and Phoenix concept. And everything else that is currently happening, well it's a different story in my book. I totally love your idea of getting her out of those situations, but what about the Askani compares her to Jean that requires her to sit out? The Askani is the revolution and clan Rachel started and had no focus on the Phoenix, so why is this Quentin's story? I get it, it's a similar thing that Jean fans deal with more (Rachel, Hope, etc), but in order for Rachel to shine it shouldn't mean that she can't be an X-Man.

Look guys I know I may come off as trolling the character but I'm just giving my opinion on some of the issues that afflict the character.

As much as I sound like I'm being purposely argumentative with you, I value your opinions. I like to have a dialogue on these things, and sometimes I get super invested lol.

PS. Being a grammar Nazi doesn't make you seem intelligent, it instead makes you come off as pompous or highly uptight you can relax this is a comic book forum for God sake not a thesis, dissertation, or anything of real important besides slight amusement for people who love comic books and these amazing characters.

Not trying to show off, revel in my intelligence or come off like an ass, so I apologize that I did. I love debating things and dialogue, and trying to follow your opinions was hard at times because of the lack of grammar. Got me frustrated when I was voicing my opinions, that was all. Sorry mate.

[Vaishakh]

X-men is getting a different writer from 18 : Marc Guggenheim .
They are going to space and Deathbird is back . It'd be great to see Rachel and Deathbird again after War of Kings.

It does tell that Rachel stays in JGS post Original Sin

[Daymare]

What!!! A writer actually referenced Rachel in an interview and may focus on her in his run! Finally!
http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/05/09...ood-all-female

[Celestialbodies]

Oh I'm not disputing that, it just sounded like that when she arrived in 616 all those things were true when she joined the X-Men, which only the TK/TP and the Jean bit was.



Well there was that time Psylocke switched powers with Jean lol. I brought Storm into the conversation because she became the Jean stand-in in terms of being the female voice and power on the team. As the original team telepath, once Jean left the comics and it was determined that they needed one again, Rachel and Psylocke then fit the roles as the female team telepath, a role Jean defined for X-Men. Since then the team essentially hasn't been without a telepath. I'm not blind to the fact of the clear affinity to Jean and how Claremont viewed that. It's part of why Rachel exists in comics. And her powers were set before she was even she entered 616, so that's a moot point. And yes of course she was going to reflect on Jean because when she expected her to be alive, she was dead. And she had to come to grips with both the changes in the timeline but also that she was an anomaly and would not exist. So the character eventually took on her mantle as Phoenix in honor of Jean. And lest we forget that the whole reason Rachel adopted the moniker of "Marvel Girl" and that outfit was at Jean's request via the homeoempathic crystal Jean left for her.




So Rachel and Jean are EXACTLY the same character? Beyond all of the powers/codenames/red hair are you saying that they are exactly the same. Personality wise? What drives them? How they think and relate to others? Because they couldn't be different in all of those aspects. Rachel and Jean are not interchangeable. They react, interact, and handle life and their powers differently.



I don't think you're envious at all, totally doesn't come off that way. Rachel had changed her name way before "EoG", so it wasn't that dramatic that when the story started she just changed it. That change was in response to Scott and Emma, which was explained essentially when she returned to the team in Uncanny. As a way of trying to mend fences, they introduced John and Elaine to Rachel in the holiday annual and they all seemed happy to welcome her into the family. So the idea of her wanting to spend time with them (especially with Sentinels guarding the school like they did when she was at the concentration camp) made sense. But part of the whole premise of EoG was that history can repeat itself, with Sentinels and the death of her family. Which are part of Rachel's unique history. Like I said before, if Jean was meant to be in this story, the premise and ideas would have been extremely different and the story would have been completely different on all fronts.



So the fact that Rachel and Storm are close and have served on teams in the past means that EVERY time it really should be Jean instead? Please show where it is explicitly stated that the sole reason Rachel is on a team is because she's the next best thing to Jean and Jean isn't around. Because I don't remember seeing that. Her involvement with XX is because they built Rachel into being a larger role (in the beginning) of the Jean Grey school. With the X-Women at their disposal, editors saw Rachel had her own ties to many of those women that did not revolve around Jean. I wish they would do some arcs around Rachel that don't involve Jean, it would be great because then she wouldn't be "leeching" off Jean. But some of the unique characteristics of Rachel have been shopped around to other characters or stories. So it will be up to editors and writers to come up with something new, which we all know they don't do these days. But to your last point about Rachel vs Jean in XX, i wouldn't be surprised if they were both in it for the dynamic. Would be nice for a change. But the reality is that Jean wasn't taken off the roster to make room for Rachel. Jean has been dead for a long time and even if she was, there is no way of saying that this book would exist. I think a LOT of things would be different (and better) if Jean were alive and in the books right now. But she's not. It just sounds like you are complaining that any appearance of Rachel on an X-team is an opportunity taken from Jean, which isn't true. I also disagree with you on the notion that every time someone is used on a team they deserve it.

Again, who told/asked Rachel to take her old costume (with some modifications) and moniker? Jean. Not Rachel. Marvel Girl was all Jean/the writers & editors idea. Her time as Phoenix is the only time she actively took on Jean's codename, and used her DP costume for a short period. And they have actually tried to ignore her time as Phoenix in the books, which is just stupid. And as to joining the X-Men when Jean is gone, I can't speak for the motivation of the writers and editors. I already mentioned Claremont's plans for Rachel prior to Jean's death, which would have had some level of interaction between them. Rachel being shunted out of the books to make way for Jean has happened a lot in the past, for a variety of reasons, but it is what it is. She wasn't used in Endsong because the story was about Jean and Phoenix, which I was fine with as I really liked the story. And she also made a cameo at the end. AvX was a shitshow and while she should have had a more prominent role I'm glad that she didn't as they shat on the X-Men and Phoenix concept. And everything else that is currently happening, well it's a different story in my book. I totally love your idea of getting her out of those situations, but what about the Askani compares her to Jean that requires her to sit out? The Askani is the revolution and clan Rachel started and had no focus on the Phoenix, so why is this Quentin's story? I get it, it's a similar thing that Jean fans deal with more (Rachel, Hope, etc), but in order for Rachel to shine it shouldn't mean that she can't be an X-Man.



As much as I sound like I'm being purposely argumentative with you, I value your opinions. I like to have a dialogue on these things, and sometimes I get super invested lol.




Not trying to show off, revel in my intelligence or come off like an ass, so I apologize that I did. I love debating things and dialogue, and trying to follow your opinions was hard at times because of the lack of grammar. Got me frustrated when I was voicing my opinions, that was all. Sorry mate.

How about this let's concentrate on getting writers and editors to focus on craving out Rachel her own mythos that way the character won't have those moments when Jean returns she disappears. And IMHO one of the best ways to do that is for there the be a separation between Rachel using Jean's legacy, yes she's her daughter but what's going to make her memorable is her doing things that is specific to her.

Now what are your thoughts on de-powering Rachel just a bit, I'm not saying its a solution but I've always felt that Rachel could benefit from being more of a brawler not a fighter specifically like Psylocke but more akin to Wolverine.

[Daymare]

How about this let's concentrate on getting writers and editors to focus on craving out Rachel her own mythos that way the character won't have those moments when Jean returns she disappears. And IMHO one of the best ways to do that is for there the be a separation between Rachel using Jean's legacy, yes she's her daughter but what's going to make her memorable is her doing things that is specific to her.

Now what are your thoughts on de-powering Rachel just a bit, I'm not saying its a solution but I've always felt that Rachel could benefit from being more of a brawler not a fighter specifically like Psylocke but more akin to Wolverine.

Empowering would be better. Depending on the title her power levels are always in flux. Currently they treat her like the schools guard dog (when they use her). I would just like to show her scrapper but not less powerful.
In AVX consequences I loved the scene where Scott, unable to use his power still owned the prisoner coming at jim, a same character beat would be nice for Ray. Even if her powers were shut off she could still "whup that ass", but instead they turn her worthless.

[Vaishakh]

How about this let's concentrate on getting writers and editors to focus on craving out Rachel her own mythos that way the character won't have those moments when Jean returns she disappears. And IMHO one of the best ways to do that is for there the be a separation between Rachel using Jean's legacy, yes she's her daughter but what's going to make her memorable is her doing things that is specific to her.

Now what are your thoughts on de-powering Rachel just a bit, I'm not saying its a solution but I've always felt that Rachel could benefit from being more of a brawler not a fighter specifically like Psylocke but more akin to Wolverine.

Depowering her wont do any good as writers might further lose interest. Rachel needs some Askani time , Starjammers or Excalibur (her own stuff) . Another good change might be go UA , leave X-men .