Toxin Appreciation!! (Carnage's son and Venom's grandson)

[Kevin's Comics]

So this is it, my very first thread... Personally I REALLY love Toxin, and I don't know why he's not that popular.. First introduce in Venom Vs Carnage #2 ( NOT IN #1!! A comic seller sold it to my friend 25$ and he said it was his first appearance.. It was the only reason he bought that comic. Let's get back to the post shall we) He did a brief 6 comic mini serie which I LOVED and appeared in Agent venom.. But I didn't saw him much recently.. WHY? I mean.. yeah it's an other symbiote like the 10 others but HE is unique.. A police office with values trap with a psychopath symbiote who want to spread Chaos (Thanks Carnage)... He's look is.. Mmmkay ( I would have prefer him in GREEN like a TOXIN poison thingy) being the son of Carnage, which is red, and the grand son of Venom, which is black, seems logic to give him a Brown suit.. Nah just kidding.. But seriously Red top and Black botom is "Lazy" and can be confusing for people who don't know his story : Is that Venom? No he have a red suit without the Spider! It's Carnage.. NOPE Toxin.. I've seen recently him having a Blue bottom, which is better in my opinion. So there is my opinion on him, did you guys liked him, did you know him??? Let's talk! or type


Youtube.com/MrKevinsComics

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I thought it was lame that Remender hyped his return, only to reveal that Pat was killed off panel.

[Shockdingo]

I never read too much of him beyond his first appearances and a few others, but I can see why people love Toxin and Pat's relationship. It presented something new in comparison to past symbiote owners, and it was a waste to kill off Pat. Marvel should do the right thing and have it revealed that Pat was barley clinging to life, Brock's incubation period for his mutated antibodies is up, Toxin leaves and rejoins with Pat, Brock is Anti-Venom again, and people are happy.

Pat has so much potential, but was barley used.

[Pav]

I didn't read the Venom v. Carnage mini, but I did enjoy the Toxin mini and would've liked to see Pat + symbiote play a continually larger role in the world of Spider-Man. While his original status quo wasn't as unique as some may think - Hybrid had a relatively similar host-symbiote relationship - Toxin was a round, dynamic, and ultimately an interesting character. It's a shame that we instead have Eddie Brock as Toxin, who strikes me as extremely flat and uninteresting.

The beauty of comics, though, is that anything can be undone; anyone can be brought back. Perhaps we'll see Pat as Toxin again someday.

-Pav, who would love to pen a tale that delves into the symbiotes' biological nature and social culture....

[Phantom Roxas]

I read Venom vs. Carnage relatively recently, and I liked it, but yeah, I'm disappointed that Pat ended up dying in the Venom book. Hopefully we at least see his family again, but if we're talking about the symbiote, given how we keep getting Carnage stories (Not that I'm complaining, because Carnage is great), I'm hoping we see Broxin again.

[Celgress]

I was intrigued by Toxin I. The concept of a by the book police officer involuntarily bonding with a violent young symbiote and struggling to use it's powers for the greater good held a lot of promise. Toxin II, or the recent retread version of the original evil Venom, on the other hand not so much.

[Venomous Mask]

I do agree that Pat should come back but I doubt it will happen. In the meantime, Broxin should get his own series, and hopefully put Brock back in San Francisco with his 90s cast (the Jury, the homeless community, etc.). Ideally, I'd bring back Pat and make him Toxin while Eddie would be a badass with guns and his bare hands. Back in the 90s, he could kick ass without a symbiote.

[Shockdingo]

^ Liking those ideas dude!

[Celgress]

I do agree that Pat should come back but I doubt it will happen....

As do I, though I can dream.

[Venomous Mask]

As do I, though I can dream.

Hey, it could happen. We never actually saw it happen.

[Celgress]

Hey, it could happen. We never actually saw it happen.

True, what it comes down to is I don't understand why they turned Toxin into a cheap copy of evil Venom. If they wanted to keep Brock with a suit why not have him stay Anti-Venom or even give him the new Venom clone (that created Manic) rather than watering down Toxin?

[Venomous Mask]

True, what it comes down to is I don't understand why they turned Toxin into a cheap copy of evil Venom. If they wanted to keep Brock with a suit why not have him stay Anti-Venom or even give him the new Venom clone (that created Manic) rather than watering down Toxin?

Well I think Anti-Venom had become a bit dull and got a good send off in Spider Island (maybe we can have an Anti-Toxin). From what I know, the new Toxin was supposed to develop a deeply complicated relationship with Venom that was both friendly and antagonistic. Unfortunately, the Venom series got cancelled for stupid reasons so Toxin was put into limbo. Like I said before, they should put him back in San Fran and give him his old cast back. If Eddie keeps the symbiote, one possible idea for a costume change would be to make him straight red with this black version of the classic Venom symbol as seen on this variant cover:



It may seem a bit reductive but if you think about it, the current Venom symbol looks completely different. Another idea would be to make him look something like this with a Shoggoth-like appearance:



Maybe they could do both, by having him have the red costume but have it make use of multiple mouths and tendrils. If Venom is going to be some straight-laced Guardian of the Galaxy, why not let Toxin be his visual opposite?

[Venomous Mask]

^ Liking those ideas dude!

Thanks. Not too many people remember the early days of the Venom series when it looked like Eddie Brock was getting a real supporting cast and home setting. Why the writers ditched that I have no idea.

[Cap'n_RDM]

I was surprised that I found myself liking Pat/Toxin when reading the Venom Vs. Carnage mini. I'm bummed to hear they've killed off Pat...seems like a big waste.

[Shockdingo]

While I agree Anti-Venom had a good send off, I feel that Brock could have sustained that direction for years to come under the right writer (give our symbiote boy some challenges!). It would involve adding on a supporting cast, namely Jenna and others. I noticed that through the years May (not knowing better) has always been sweet on Brock. I was hoping he would join Pete's supporting cast after New Ways To Live and the fantastic burying of the grudge. I was hoping he'd once again become a defender of the homeless.

I'm a broken record when it comes to this issue and others, but I feel that the healing aspect of Anti-Venom was the most potentially successful aspect for Brock's new direction. It gave him a new lease on life and a way to do extra good while between adventures. Things didn't 100% work with Jenna, but, like in Spider Island, him healing others and not always violently dispatching things would work well with his redemption angle and even open up new areas if for instance he went back to San Francisco.

I've also said this in multiple places, but killing off Ann was a huge mistake and amounted to another shoddy way to artificially extend Brock's hatred of Pete. I would have written it as though she had survived, but was rendered comatose, and upon her awakening she found out she, tragically had become crippled. Through this, she would raise herself up and not only get her career back, but move past the PTSD she had from being bonded and separated from the Symbiote for so long.

Brock would then be declared the hero of Spider Island and complications would arise with them crossing eachother's path. Also temptation would arise and she would struggle to see if she really wanted his help again. Ultimately she would refuse and they would have a prickly, but respectful friendship. (Also, you could bring back the Jury to be fantastic foils to Brock, being disgusted that a killer like him is declared the hero of New York)



I too am sad that we never got to see what else was planned for Broxin. There were the Remender plans we never got light shed on, the Spawning and Bunn's recently revealed War of the Symbiote storylines. With Remender, I felt he was hinting at something big and a bit spooky with Brock (maybe Anti-Venom returning, maybe something else). In the "symbiote hunter" issues he seemed to have subtle superhuman abilities:

-Despite losing his AV suit (which, like any medical procedure, should have left him weakened for a bit) he was keeping up with Hybrid in the rain--leaping from buildingtop to buildingtop. Even Frank Castle around Civil War noted that he couldn't constantly do this due to the pain that was generated in his knees from landing each time. He wondered how people like Daredevil constantly do this.

-He got the metaphorical drop on Scream, then literally dropped down from the ceiling and appeared to have used webbing to get the heated knives

-In the panel he killed her, I thought it was just the typical artistic renditioning of a character with whited out eyes, but in another panel, as we got closer, Brock had gray sclera and whited out pupils and irises. Something bizarre was supposed to happen, but we never saw it.

I remember when Bunn got on the book there was talk of Brock having an Obi-Wan connection with Flash. Regardless of if Brock remained a human or became Toxin, I would have liked to see him mentor Flash, and really help him discover a deeper connection with the symbiote. Now with the new direction GotG introduced, that seems impossible. Speaking of new direction, with the plethora of Carnage appearances lately, I'm disappointed that Brock hasn't shown up. All we've seen lately is the ambiguous cameo in Hobgolin#1 of an Anti-Venom (part of me hopes it was actually Brock hoping to kickstart his heroic return) and "Eddie Brock was right!" in the last issue of Axis Carnage.

About his appearance, I agree, having the Red Venom look on the cover would be rather cool.


I hope Brock comes back soon. Recently Tom Brevoort responded to people wanting some of the Spider Verse characters to get their own ongoings. If I recall correctly, he said for those we want to see in the Spidey books, send in emails and let our voices be heard. I sent in a message, about Brock while back, so maybe some of us should ask for Brock to return from limbo?