Fantastic Four Recommendations

[j505tuppe]

Hey,

So I'm thinking about reading some Fantastic Four.

So far all I've really read is the stuff by Hickman, Fraction's run, and aside from Robinson's current stuff - just the first ever issue and classics like the original Galactus story.

I am a Sue Storm fan more than anything, and so far I've always been kind of annoyed by how underutilised she is.

So, what I really want to know is: Which writer was the best at writing (gave most agency to) Sue Storm?

I want to read some classic FF where she really has something to do.

Okay. Hope someone can help!

[Alvarez]

Hey,

So I'm thinking about reading some Fantastic Four.

So far all I've really read is the stuff by Hickman, Fraction's run, and aside from Robinson's current stuff - just the first ever issue and classics like the original Galactus story.

I am a Sue Storm fan more than anything, and so far I've always been kind of annoyed by how underutilised she is.

So, what I really want to know is: Which writer was the best at writing (gave most agency to) Sue Storm?

I want to read some classic FF where she really has something to do.

Okay. Hope someone can help!

If you're a Sue fan, just dive right into John Byrne's run.
He really redefines her and addresses some very important questions.
Her powers are also more clearly set in stone.

This is also when she goes from Invisible Girl to Invisible Woman.

Other runs worth checking out are Pacheco and Waid.

[zlbenson]

Yea I think John Byrne's run is where she gets the most development. There is a cool issue where she is the focus - maybe 245? - that I think was Byrne putting the naysayers of Sue (of the time) on their ass.

I'm with you in that I would love more Sue focus in the books. I think I became a fan for life during Civil War event where she broke up that fight - that image was super compelling.

[j505tuppe]

Thanks guys. This has been on my mind for a while - trust it to be a co-conspirator of Claremont's to write a strong female character!

[j505tuppe]

I feel like I have some direction now.
I've done some looking up and figure I will read Fantastic Four issues #209 through #293, and Annuals #17 through #19.

[Alvarez]

I feel like I have some direction now.
I've done some looking up and figure I will read Fantastic Four issues #209 through #293, and Annuals #17 through #19.

Just some info.
Byrne's run of Fantastic Four #232-293, but the final arc doesn't end until #295.
As for starting at #209, those are issues, some of which Byrne only penciled.

Miss Fantastic might give you more details on the matter though.

[Iron Maiden]

I'd have to agree that Byrne was probably the writer that did the most with Sue. Issue #245, "Childhood's End", is probably her strongest issue from that run. The next writer that tried to make Sue a stronger character was Tom DeFalco and he did that by getting rid of Reed (and Doom) for about 2 years. I think it went a bit overboard myself. The "tough girl" dialogue he gave her IMO didn't come off very well. I like it when Sue sounds like she means business and is going to kick some butts but DeFalco's Sue just wasn't my cup of tea. And then there was the awful cut out costume.


She has a few bright spots in Waid's run but not enough IMO. I thought Claremont's FF (no surprise there) gave her some good storylines also like dealing with the sudden arrival of a teen-aged Valeria von Doom. She even goes into the background a lot in Hickman's run since the Council of Reeds takes up quite a bit of the story he is telling. I am looking forward to seeing what Robinson does with the situation with Valeria. He said that she is going to confront Doom about it at some point. Sometimes in the absence of a big story, I like the little moments she gets here and there, like the scene of her dealing with her miscarriage in Byrne's run. Or putting Namor in his place when he forgets his boundaries.






Althought any enemy of the Fantastic Four is by default an enemy of Sue's she really lacks a personal foe and maybe they should do something along those lines. There was a bit of a rivalry between her and the evil Warrior Queen Dorma from the Franklinverse but I think she is dead or MIA. And then there's the grudge with Psycho Man.

[j505tuppe]

Just some info.
Byrne's run of Fantastic Four #232-293, but the final arc doesn't end until #295.
As for starting at #209, those are issues, some of which Byrne only penciled.

Miss Fantastic might give you more details on the matter though.

Yes, from what I looked up he did the pencils from 209 to 218, then did full duties on 220 & 221 before taking a little break and starting his run in earnest with 232.

The way I figure it is that 209 is where his creative input starts on the book so reading from there gives me some more to read - also I'm kind of OCD about gaps. Like I've noticed 209 is already in the middle of an ongoing story with them in space so I'm going to start at the beginning of that arc with 204.

[Maven]

Just some info.
Byrne's run of Fantastic Four #232-293, but the final arc doesn't end until #295.
As for starting at #209, those are issues, some of which Byrne only penciled.

Miss Fantastic might give you more details on the matter though.

I thought my Fantastic senses were picking up on some name dropping...

I'd have to agree that Byrne was probably the writer that did the most with Sue. Issue #245, "Childhood's End", is probably her strongest issue from that run. The next writer that tried to make Sue a stronger character was Tom DeFalco and he did that by getting rid of Reed (and Doom) for about 2 years. I think it went a bit overboard myself. The "tough girl" dialogue he gave her IMO didn't come off very well. I like it when Sue sounds like she means business and is going to kick some butts but DeFalco's Sue just wasn't my cup of tea. And then there was the awful cut out costume.

Out of respect for what Iron Maiden just painstakingly posted, I'll just say in regards to my list of 'must avoid' Fantastic Four runs that DeFalco's very ill-handled run is up there on said list. As a matter of fact, the only writers I'd place over DeFalco for being worst are Mark Millar (just typical terribleness, as can be expected with Millar) and Matt Fraction (horrible, HORRIBLE take on the FF AND with the added quirk of the worst sales in the title's overall history). Steve Englehart would rank up there too, but just behind DeFalco because at least he didn't try to permanently kill off key characters* nor over-sex them (*cough*the aforementioned post-Infinity War Malice-Sue*cough*). Instead, Englehart just tried to have key characters shipped off for good AND showed his rear when the fans and Marvel said "No, no!" to the notion of the Richards being permanent residents of Belle Porte, Connecticut. IMO, that whole Aron the Rogue Watcher crap story (which lasted for nearly a year) was Englehart's way of lashing out at the fans and Marvel for having to bring back 'the boring Richards' (his words, not mine, as can be seen in this link).

Anyways...the FF creative runs I would recommend the most AND really, over a grand chunk of everything else (because I'm simply old school like that), to a beginner are the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby (FF #1-102), Marv Wolfman (FF #190-217 and the later half featuring pencils by John Byrne), and Byrne (FF #232-293, with the added starter bonus of FF #220-221) runs. J50, I see where you say you want Sue Richards-centric stories, and therefore agree with Iron Maiden that you cannot get better Sue-wise than Byrne's overall run, and ESPECIALLY FF #245, which I hold to be not only the best Sue 'solo' story, but also the best Franklin one to boot too. But overall, Byrne IMO has been THE writer to treat Sue the best throughout nearly all of his stories (yes, even the first Malice ones, FF #280-281). My recommendation if you don't want to get individual back issues is to go after the Byrne Visionaries trade paperbacks OR the two Byrne Omnibuses. Another recommendation I have is to possibly get the Best Of The FF TPB, which has a little bit of everything, to get a feel for which FF run you want to try first the most.

* - I forget where I read it, but there was once an interview where DeFalco said that if he had his way, Reed and Doom would have remained dead permanently. Yes, seriously.

[Gummahfan]

Hey guys,

So, I have never been a huge fan of Fantastic Four, but I am trying to diversify my collection. I heard that the two recent runs to grab are the Fraction and Hickman runs. I was just wondering which you guys prefer and why. I am hoping to get a general vibe on the two runs that way I can figure out which one to invest $$$ into. Thanks guys!

[Rheged]

Hickman all the way. It's better written, interesting, and is true to the spirit of the Fantastic Four, while moving the team forward.

What I've read of Fraction's run was ... hokey and seemed a caricature of the past stories.

[zlbenson]

Hickman's F4/FF run hooked me so much that I went back to grab as much as I could. Fractions F4 was average at best. I thought Fraction/Allred's FF was fun and cute - not so much super heroing but light and goofy. I liked it quite a bit - but really Hickman's entire run was truly fantastic.

[Alvarez]

Go with Hickman no doubt.

For Fraction his Fantastic Four was... well it could have been better.
If you dig Hickman and his entire FF initiative, you'll LOVE Fraction and Allred's FF.

[NewMutant]

Hickman is certainly the lengthier run that added more mythos to the F4. But Fraction's FF stands out as something unique and fun. The Millar-Hickman-Fraction run feels like one delicious meal with Millar as the appetizer, Hickman as the main course, and Fraction as desert.

[Gummahfan]

well that cinches it, I'll grab the Hickman run. There was an omnibus but I find those hard to read. I'll price it out in trades. Thanks for the tip guys!