1. #24166
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    If they need 600 million they are definitely limping towards the finish.

    It was meant to follow up a critical disaster of a film whose only success spawned another movie (Wonder Woman) that was connected to it so much that if you skipped the framing device you miss nothing. So going in; your prior two movies are divisive to bad, and your only real success spawns from a glorified cameo. Not to mention that BVS was even hurt by its competition who did a much better job tackling similar subject matter. So with response to what was going on behind the scenes with reactions to Marvel and the GA you also end up with a director who suffers an awful tragedy who has to be replaced but also has a tonal difference.
    So a mixture of a lack of faith in the brand, a competing franchise that tends to make better decisions, a competition who already hit that milestone 5 years ago, following up on one of the biggest disaster of your brands life, with two directors of different tones, and you expect what?

    I'm not sure if anybody could've saved this, it was just way too early and a bad time for Justice League. No amount of reinventing the wheel would've changed the time frame to make it especially with all that went on during production.
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  2. #24167
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    Careful. I've been saying that about X-Men & GotG for about a year now, and I keep getting told those were "different" because reasons :P


    Edit: I agree with the timing thing. I wish the film had been pushed back to sometime in the Spring of 2018...maybe give the VFX more time in the oven. Mind you, I do not think the version we got would have made a billion no matter when it was released or how good the effects are, but I do think it would have done better than it has been. Tickets are expensive, and concessions more so; with Thor, Star Wars a month later, and Black Friday / Christmas shopping on the horizon, November 17th was very poor timing.
    Stop using logic! We all know the only explanation for JL's failure was because BvS all by itself ruined the DC brand and there are no other reasons! I mean, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were complete flops too, right? I mean neither of them had legs or made decent profits and as we all know, BvS,SS AND Wonder Woman all flopped horribly on home video and ...

    Oh...Wait.... None of that I just said was the case. Huh.


    Now, no doubt about it, BvS and it's fallout did affect JL in a negative way,but as you guys pointed out it was really a perfect storm of many factors that all led to JL not doing what Warners had wanted. You can't sugar coat it for sure, but the narrative that some want to push is that the BvS factor is the only reason JL is sputtering is frankly hogwash.

    JL was merely an OK film after a great one ( Wonder Woman) that wasn't well served by it's promotional material, released soon after a Thor Movie that many really seem to like ( I thought it was overrated and meh and only marginally better than The Dark World, but apparently I'm the only one that shares that opinion. No one can deny it's made a shit ton of money and was backed up with near orgasmic glowing reviews) and before freaking Star Wars at a time where money is pretty tight and desposable income is being spent on other things.


    Plus, the factor that to the general public, JL just seemed like a copy cat Avengers and are either opting to wait until video or skip it all together and wait for the next WW, solo Superman or solo Batman movie.



    Fact is, even if JL had by some miracle pulled a billion dollars, many of the same usual suspects here and elsewhere would be telling us it flopped and it should have made 2 billion instead and the conversation would have still inevitably still gone back to PA Kent saying " Maybe" and man of murder blah blah blah, circlejerk ad infinitum.

    In other words, Tuesday on the DCEU thread.
    Last edited by manofsteel1979; 12-05-2017 at 09:18 PM.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
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  3. #24168
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I wanted moar


  4. #24169
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Stop using logic! We all know the only explanation for JL's failure was because BvS all by itself ruined the DC brand and there are no other reasons! I mean, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were complete flops too, right? I mean neither of them had legs or made decent profits and as we all know, BvS,SS AND Wonder Woman all flopped horribly on home video and ...

    Oh...Wait.... None of that I just said was the case. Huh.


    Now, no doubt about it, BvS and it's fallout did affect JL in a negative way,but as you guys pointed out it was really a perfect storm of many factors that all led to JL not doing what Warners had wanted. You can't sugar coat it for sure, but the narrative that some want to push is that the BvS factor is the only reason JL is sputtering is frankly hogwash.

    JL was merely an OK film after a great one ( Wonder Woman) that wasn't well served by it's promotional material, released soon after a Thor Movie that many really seem to like ( I thought it was overrated and meh and only marginally better than The Dark World, but apparently I'm the only one that shares that opinion. No one can deny it's made a shit ton of money and was backed up with near orgasmic glowing reviews) and before freaking Star Wars at a time where money is pretty tight and desposable income is being spent on other things.


    Plus, the factor that to the general public, JL just seemed like a copy cat Avengers and are either opting to wait until video or skip it all together and wait for the next WW, solo Superman or solo Batman movie.



    Fact is, even if JL had by some miracle pulled a billion dollars, many of the same usual suspects here and elsewhere would be telling us it flopped and it should have made 2 billion instead and the conversation would have still inevitably still gone back to PA Kent saying " Maybe" and man of murder blah blah blah, circlejerk ad infinitum.

    In other words, Tuesday on the DCEU thread.
    I love this post so much.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  5. #24170
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Obviously Affleck is done as Batman and I wouldn’t be surprised if WB wants to shelve Superman for a while after all this mess. So sadly I don’t think we’ll get a true MoS sequel. Since Cavill is only under contract for one more appearance as Superman I wonder if they’ll just use his last go round as a cameo in Suicide Squad 2. Black Adam is set to debut in that movie and they’ve been teasing a Superman vs Black Adam fight for a while.

    If (and it’s a huge IF) Suicide Squad 2 manages to not be terrible, WB could always put together a Justice League vs Suicide Squad flick. seeing Harley, Black Adam, and Will Smith’s Deadshot against the League may generate excitement with the average movie goer.

  6. #24171
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Stop using logic! We all know the only explanation for JL's failure was because BvS all by itself ruined the DC brand and there are no other reasons! I mean, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were complete flops too, right? I mean neither of them had legs or made decent profits and as we all know, BvS,SS AND Wonder Woman all flopped horribly on home video and ...

    Oh...Wait.... None of that I just said was the case. Huh.


    Now, no doubt about it, BvS and it's fallout did affect JL in a negative way,but as you guys pointed out it was really a perfect storm of many factors that all led to JL not doing what Warners had wanted. You can't sugar coat it for sure, but the narrative that some want to push is that the BvS factor is the only reason JL is sputtering is frankly hogwash.

    JL was merely an OK film after a great one ( Wonder Woman) that wasn't well served by it's promotional material, released soon after a Thor Movie that many really seem to like ( I thought it was overrated and meh and only marginally better than The Dark World, but apparently I'm the only one that shares that opinion. No one can deny it's made a shit ton of money and was backed up with near orgasmic glowing reviews) and before freaking Star Wars at a time where money is pretty tight and desposable income is being spent on other things.


    Plus, the factor that to the general public, JL just seemed like a copy cat Avengers and are either opting to wait until video or skip it all together and wait for the next WW, solo Superman or solo Batman movie.



    Fact is, even if JL had by some miracle pulled a billion dollars, many of the same usual suspects here and elsewhere would be telling us it flopped and it should have made 2 billion instead and the conversation would have still inevitably still gone back to PA Kent saying " Maybe" and man of murder blah blah blah, circlejerk ad infinitum.

    In other words, Tuesday on the DCEU thread.
    Completely agree RE: BvS, funny how no article ever brings up the fact it made slightly more money than CA:CW on home video, one article loosely mentioned it made the second highest gross last CBM year but then went on for paragraphs saying how it had a terrible WoM and got random quotes from random "analysts".

    In one of the reports last year Jeff Bewkes (CEO of Time Warner) called BvS a success flat out and said he couldn't wait for WB to release SS in the summer. Unsurprisingly not many sites picked up on that.

    Furthermore we have no idea what digital sales were like and further futhermore no idea how much merchandise money it made, MoS for example was able to pocket 200m before release!

    People think BO is the be all and end all but for CBMs there are so much more to it. When Spidey was back at SONY, MARVEL were practically advertising those ASM movies like it were their own, why? Cuz Spidey shifts more merch than any other hero by a long way, they'd be stupid not too.
    "Yes...Mondo Cool"- Vegeta.

  7. #24172
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    Went to see JL for a second time last night, and oddly enough... I didn't think it was as bad as it was the first time around.

    Though I am still crossing my fingers and hope that WB is going to do like they did with BvS and admit they screwed up and release and extended version once it's time for home release. A Snyder-cut of the movie with Junkie XL doing the music is likely too much to ask... but one can hope in this world where Disney/Lucasarts can plop out the original Star Wars movies half a dozen times adding more and more stuff to them with each new release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    If (and it’s a huge IF) Suicide Squad 2 manages to not be terrible, WB could always put together a Justice League vs Suicide Squad flick. seeing Harley, Black Adam, and Will Smith’s Deadshot against the League may generate excitement with the average movie goer.
    I have to wonder who on Earth would think this is a good idea? I mean Suicide Squad only managed to generate hype from trailers that grossly misrepresented what the movie was going to do. JL is struggling as it is, SS actually sucked, no one has forgotten either and putting them together just sounds like a huge waste of time and money (Will Smith is not a cheap actor, neither is Dwayne Johnson)... and for what? Just so we can write off Cavill and Affleck?

  8. #24173
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Justice League vs. Suicide Squad is a super desperate and unnecessary move this soon. Just stick with the program and have the solo movies setting up the individual members of the Legion of Doom, who then team up to take on the JL with JL2. Fundamentally it's the same concept (heroes vs. villains) but far better as it's the League's villains and also allows for more focus on the individual League members as well. And won't be as rushed and gimmicky as JLvSS.

  9. #24174
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    Avengers 3 Trailer broke record
    I'm certain a bunch of other MCU trailers beat the Avengers record and yet none of them have superseded it in the box office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Funny I thought Avengers Infinity War looked like a excellently shot especially the swooping scene of fighters in Wakanda charging, great film and a ten year continuing story coming together bringing all the characters together with a villain who has been teased and building anticipation for 5 years since Avengers.
    Except the villain is going to be bad. Marvel has a well known track record for poor villains, and their cgi ones are particularly forgettable. If Steppenwolf is bad, who cares? No one is really invested in him. If Thanos is bad, well, the MCU is as an idea is exposed for the hollow, vapid and empty franchise it is.

  10. #24175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Except the villain is going to be bad. Marvel has a well known track record for poor villains, and their cgi ones are particularly forgettable. If Steppenwolf is bad, who cares? No one is really invested in him. If Thanos is bad, well, the MCU is as an idea is exposed for the hollow, vapid and empty franchise it is.
    People don't really seem to mind the meh villains.
    Also, when did the MCU have a CGI main villain before Thanos? Other than Ultron who is one of my favourite non-Netflix MCU villains.

  11. #24176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    If Thanos is bad, well, the MCU is as an idea is exposed for the hollow, vapid and empty franchise it is.
    They'll distract people by having him press the Reality Stone and giving birth to MCU mutants

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    How Justice League could get nominated for best visual effects is beyond me. It has obvious CGI and Steppenwolf looks like a Hulk who hasn't been composited correctly from 2003. Even the backgrounds are clearly not present so I am just under the impression it was a mediocre year for SFX if Justice League of all things gets the nomination.

    I also still call bullshit on Suicide Squad. What blew so many people away on it that it was the best of the year? The same makeup can and has been done by cosplayers for decades. Killer Croc was cool but as a latex monster costume it's not that impressive, that sort FX is actually really common. I'm almost positive The RPF has done it long before the movie.
    Is there such a thing as a razzie award for worst visual effects? Because if so then Justice League would unquestionably get nominated.

  13. #24178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Except the villain is going to be bad. Marvel has a well known track record for poor villains, and their cgi ones are particularly forgettable. If Steppenwolf is bad, who cares? No one is really invested in him. If Thanos is bad, well, the MCU is as an idea is exposed for the hollow, vapid and empty franchise it is.
    Doubtful, Marvel gets by on its bad villains because the movies are otherwise well constructed and people like the heroes. This will be no different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhipWhirlwind View Post
    Doubtful, Marvel gets by on its bad villains because the movies are otherwise well constructed and people like the heroes. This will be no different.
    It's really a novel idea, superhero films where people like the heroes instead of the villains. You didn't used to that often.

  15. #24180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It's really a novel idea, superhero films where people like the heroes instead of the villains. You didn't used to that often.
    Um, yes you did. Plenty. Superman I and II. Blade. Sam Raimi and Marc Webb Spider-Man. Thomas Jane's Punisher. The X-Men (well Wolverine was pretty popular any way). The Nolan Trilogy. The MCU didn't invent this.

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