DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Slowpokeking]

Another contributor is also timing.

A Justice League movie now is a really bad idea when you consider that it is perhaps 5-6 years too late. Avengers not only beat them to it, it did so twice, and one of the big money makers in that studio did a pseudo Avengers 3 within a solo film. Said solo film also did better than it's counterpart which tackled similar subject matter. It didn't have to beat Avengers but Justice League didn't have a leg to stand on. It not only missed that moment in history, it failed to get off the ground in a meaningful way. We know how these films are supposed to work, a shared universe is a science now. The growing pains are over and yet from what I hear Justice League came out mediocre to alright. One of those what if? sort of scenarios is applicable here due to those growing pains. We would be far more forgiving in 2011 or 2012 when this sort of thing wasn't really done before. It would gain scoff later like Avengers does, but if the movie is good enough then the stigma wouldn't matter since it was breaking new ground and nobody had a clear idea of how it was supposed to work.

Justice League came too late and should've waited until the MCU culmination died down. As now you have 20 something films and a guy who resembles your big bad guy who is going to make it to screen first. Comparisons will be made and if Darkseid falls short he will be seen as a poor substitute to the guy who is going to break Earth's mightiest heroes.

It depends on the setup. JL got more well known heroes and villains, it could have been a big hit if it was handled well. Obviously WB didn't use it too wisely.

[FlashEarthOne]

I don't know what they expected him to say. Snyder is the one who cast him. Kind of like how people acted like it was a surprise that Snyder's son thought that his dad's version would be better.

https://heroichollywood.com/ezra-miller-zack-snyder-dc/

[Badou]

MOS was fine, it got its pros and cons and the reception was ok. As the start of DCEU it was good enough.

It's normal when the first movie of the trilogy got some unlikable elements, as long as you remove them in the future it's going to be fine. But WB didn't do it, instead BVS further expanded what ppl didn't like and failed.

How was it fine? It basically caused the fandom to be split in half where they are still arguing how good/bad the movie was years later. For a first movie that is supposed to kick start your movie universe divisive is not what you want. It is the last thing. It caused them to stumble out of the gate. You want a movie that appeals to the general audience where they can buy into the world and more importantly the character so they feel invested. Then you can take that goodwill you built up in the first movie and can try something more challenging/unexpected in the second if you want. That is what Nolan did with his Batman movies.

[Great O.G.U.F.O.O.L.]

Awesome action scenes+some confusing storytelling and weird dark tone.

Plus some nonsensical characterization. Batman thinks of his dead mother and suddenly all the reasons he had for hating Superman are gone and they are friends (he actually introduces himself as "a friend of your son" when he saves Superman's mom). No true resolution to any of their issues (which I thought were forced in the first place).

Perhaps if they didn't try to combine The Dark Knight Returns with the Death of Superman?

That's also very puzzling. Why combine two stories so thematically different? Two stories that each one would need a whole movie to fully breathe? And two stories that work better when they take place down the road for both heroes and not so early on?

Marvel really just did simple things. First introduced the characters in solo adventures before the team up, just like it happened in the comics. Did Civil War only after the heroes had some adventures under their belts. And no weird mashups like "Let's do Civil War and the Kree-Skrull War in one film".

[Carabas]

Another contributor is also timing.

A Justice League movie now is a really bad idea when you consider that it is perhaps 5-6 years too late. Avengers not only beat them to it, it did so twice, and one of the big money makers in that studio did a pseudo Avengers 3 within a solo film...

Justice League came too late and should've waited until the MCU culmination died down. As now you have 20 something films and a guy who resembles your big bad guy who is going to make it to screen first. Comparisons will be made and if Darkseid falls short he will be seen as a poor substitute to the guy who is going to break Earth's mightiest heroes.

Taking into account that modern superhero movies started around 2000, and that WB have always owned all the characters and have always had the capability of making their own movies, Justice League is more like 12 years too late.

If WB had any sense or capability they could have gotten a DC Cinematic Universe up and running long before Marvel even got into the game. Instead they sat on their ass and then finally released Batman Begins in 2005 when they should have had a bunch of movies out already by then and instead could have been releasing Justice League.

[Slowpokeking]

How was it fine? It basically caused the fandom to be split in half where they are still arguing how good/bad the movie was years later. For a first movie that is supposed to kick start your movie universe divisive is not what you want. It is the last thing. It caused them to stumble out of the gate. You want a movie that appeals to the general audience where they can buy into the world and more importantly the character so they feel invested. Then you can take that goodwill you built up in the first movie and can try something more challenging/unexpected in the second if you want. That is what Nolan did with his Batman movies.

It got some low points but also have probably the best superhero action scenes and awesome special effect. The story was overall decent, the reception and box office was fine.

Plus some nonsensical characterization. Batman thinks of his dead mother and suddenly all the reasons he had for hating Superman are gone and they are friends (he actually introduces himself as "a friend of your son" when he saves Superman's mom). No true resolution to any of their issues (which I thought were forced in the first place).

[XanatosVanBadass]

That's also very puzzling. Why combine two stories so thematically different? Two stories that each one would need a whole movie to fully breathe? And two stories that work better when they take place down the road for both heroes and not so early on?

Not to mention Dark Knight Rises already took many thematic ideas from DKR, plus we already have a very good animated adaption of that story.

[Badou]

It got some low points but also have probably the best superhero action scenes and awesome special effect. The story was overall decent, the reception and box office was fine.

The reception wasn't fine, which is the problem. Half the fandom not liking it isn't what I'd call a a fine reception.

[Jokerz79]

To be fair, this version WAS Zod :P Hence, the heat vision.

I'll give you the energy blasts though.

It was created by Lex taking Kryptonian DNA and mixing with it with his own the thing was Nuclear Man 2.0 and it makes sense given Eisenberg's Lex was more Lenny Luthor than any Lex I ever seen.

[Carabas]

It was created by Lex taking Kryptonian DNA and mixing with it with his own the thing was Nuclear Man 2.0 and it makes sense given Eisenberg's Lex was more Lenny Luthor than any Lex I ever seen.

It's the only Luthor I have ever seen who actually did the 'mad' part of mad scientist.

[Jokerz79]

It's the only Luthor I have ever seen who actually did the 'mad' part of mad scientist.

Lyle Talbot's Lex Luthor from Atom Man vs Superman was straight up Mad Scientist down to the White Scientist Jacket. But my favorite Mad Lex was Sherman Howard from the Superboy tv series he could play crazy at times.

[TooFlyToFail]

If Snyder's vision for MoS was more generally accepted instead of being so divisive then WB wouldn't be in the mess they are in. That movie kicked off the DCEU on such a bad note where fans are still talking about what bothered them about it. It is the root of all the problems because it set the tone and look of what they tried to turn the DCEU into, which many fans did not like. Then for some reason they decided to double down on Snyder's vision and do BvS, and that was even more divisive and basically sent WB into panic mode where they felt they had to change things to try and win back favor with the fans but the damage was already done by then.

I think Snyder can be a good director under certain circumstances, but he had his opportunity with these movies to get his vision across and it didn't work. He had MoS and BvS to showcase what he saw for the DCEU where WB let him have a lot of freedom to do what he wanted, maybe too much freedom, and that vision just never connected with the amount of fans WB was hoping for. It is WB's fault for continuing with Snyder's vision for a 3rd movie in JL when by that time they clearly were in serious panic mode. They should have gotten someone different to direct it from the start, because by then they knew what Snyder was going to try and do and WB had to have known that it wasn't going to align with how they wanted to course correct the movies.

The thing is that it was WB's vision, that's why they hired Zack. They saw TDK Trilogy, and thought that should be the direction for their next set of DC movies. Zack's sensibilities fit.

I personally give MoS an 8-8.5/10. Theres missteps in the storytelling, but it's more than good enough.

There's nothing wrong with MoS, but the tone, and direction, was not widely accepted. It was more to do with how Superman "should" be represented.

Honestly, its looking like Superman is lose-lose. I think that's why Shazam is being pushed.

[TooFlyToFail]

I know. Not denying that,.

Can Nolan do more that one style?

[Carabas]

Lyle Talbot's Lex Luthor from Atom Man vs Superman was straight up Mad Scientist down to the White Scientist Jacket. But my favorite Mad Lex was Sherman Howard from the Superboy tv series he could play crazy at times.

I have not seen Atom Man vs Superman. Or been aware of its existence for that matter.

The Superboy series sadly never got aired over here.

[Jokerz79]

I have not seen Atom Man vs Superman. Or been aware of its existence for that matter.

The Superboy series sadly never got aired over here.

The Atom Man vs Superman was a sequel serial to Kirk Alyn's original made in 1950 and it stars Kirk Alyn and Noel Neill.