1. #20656
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can't believe we're getting a Barry Allen Flash who hasn't even graduated from college yet .
    I bet in this universe Dick Grayson will be older than Barry Allen. That just sounds mind-boggling.

  2. #20657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Because he wasn't in the New 52 ?

    But seriously though, Miller's Flash just feels more and more like Kid Flash then the actual Flash at this point.
    I think the idea is similar to what JL/JLU did with Wally:

    Fundamentally the Flash is a difficult character to adapt, as his history from the comic books draws heavily from what has become known as the “Flash Legacy,” a mythos that has become both a blessing and a curse for the character. Here, Wally West is the third man to take up the mantle of the Flash, with Jay Garrick (the Golden Age Flash) and Barry Allen (the Silver Age Flash) coming before him…and this doesn’t even take into account the presence of Johnny Quick, Max Mercury, Jesse Quick, Impulse—a literal army of speedsters that spans hundreds of years, with each of them connected to the Speed Force, a fundamental energy source that all speed-related individuals tap into. While it is true that this mythos does provide a rich tapestry for writers to draw upon, it also holds the character back, as most modern-day Flash stories seem to be mired in it (in the comics, Wally West fights crime as the Flash in memoriam of Barry Allen, who died in 1985's Crisis on Infinite Earths series, and is constantly in his shadow). As a result, readers often see the current Flash as nothing more than an extension of the mythos and not as an individual character; as he races through the pages of his monthly comic he drags his back-story behind him.

    To combat this, the creative team took a big risk by severing Wally West’s ties to the Flash Legacy. On Justice League Wally is the only superhero to ever bear the identity of the Flash, and this distance from the mythos allows the character the chance to be something that he has never been able to be in his previous incarnations: unique. He doesn’t have to operate in the shadow of two prior incarnations; he is free to live his life without being compared to another hero. And while comic fans have complained about the absence of Jay Garrick and Barry Allen, their omission provides Wally the opportunity to be his own man.

    In keeping with the concept of Wally West being the only Flash, it should come as no surprise that, without a mentor in Barry Allen or the presence of the Teen Titans to hone his skills with, the creative team decided to make his character fill the category of “the rookie” in the team’s dynamic. Portrayed as still learning the full range of his abilities and being inexperienced in terms of sacrifice (his bewilderment over Wonder Woman’s banishment in "Paradise Lost," his inability to comprehend leaving a teammate behind in "The Savage Time" or in "Hearts and Minds"), the Flash provides an interesting contrast when compared to his more seasoned teammates, who have been doing the job for years (and, in some cases, for centuries). In truth, the character is more Kid Flash than regular Flash, and the opportunity to see his evolution as a hero sans Barry is a new wrinkle for an old, Silver Age character. In addition, his lack of a mentor provides Wally with a measure of uncertainty when it comes to what his powers are actually capable of—as shown in "Only a Dream," the thought that his powers may one day lock him into super-speed mode permanently is one that will keep him awake at night for years to come.

    On Justice League, the Flash is frequently portrayed as being an everyman, a people’s superhero—unlike the others, the Flash is the one that the public is most likely to run into on the streets and interact regularly with (whereas Batman is more likely to stick to the shadows, and the others can fly). He’s also more approachable, spending his spare time flirting with women in diners and visiting children in orphanages. These attributes make him indispensable to the team, as he provides a vital link between the Justice League and the community they serve (although it can also be a detriment, as he learned when he tried marketing his persona in "Eclipsed").

    As for his relationship to the team itself, the Flash shares a vital symbiotic relationship with the Justice League. On one hand, his friendly and easy-going personality serves as the glue that holds the organization together. Over the series’ duration, he’s managed to befriend every member of the team on some level; from his Oscar-and-Felix friendship with Green Lantern to the sarcastic remarks that he regularly trades with Hawkgirl. Through these relationships the Flash becomes a window with which we can get to know the other characters; in truth, he’s a better peripheral character than Batman is because his extraverted personality. On the other hand, in exchange for these benefits, the Flash is unconsciously forced to become a better hero by his association with the others. Consider the evolution of his character’s abilities: in Season One, the Flash was frequently seen being taken down by debris or by a slower target or simply doing something that undermined his status as a hero (one of the worst being his inability to pilot the Javelin-7 in "In Blackest Night"); while, in Season Two, he appears to have improved in his overall performance, piloting the Javelin-7 successfully in "Maid of Honor" and using his speed-related abilities in new ways (such as tricking the Justice Lords’ Batman into believing his heart had stopped in "A Better World"). Overall, he is, literally, the heart of the League (as it was alluded to in "A Better World"), as his presence provides levity to the team’s mindset, as well as a measure of pride in his development.

    While Ezra Barry serves the same purpose of JL Wally(the rookie/comedic role), He definitely seems like he is playing on the core Barry characteristics in a Ezra fashion(how Barry is always fashionable late in the scene with Commissioner Gordon, his fanboy/comic loving persona, the absentmindedness, the scientist, and his everyman nature). So it's basically the best of all Flashes.

  3. #20658
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman2978 View Post
    I think the idea is similar to what JL/JLU did with Wally:

    While Ezra Barry serves the same purpose of JL Wally(the rookie/comedic role), He definitely seems like he is playing on the core Barry characteristics in a Ezra fashion(how Barry is always fashionable late in the scene with Commissioner Gordon, his fanboy/comic loving persona, the absentmindedness, the scientist, and his everyman nature). So it's basically the best of all Flashes.
    Millar's Flash certainly does have a certain "Flash-ness" to him and embody many of the character traits associated with the property. But he doesn't feel very much like Barry Allen to me. You can see the Barry-isms are there.....but it's not really Barry. I feel like Millar is playing a solid Flash archetype, but not so much the character of Barry Allen.

    From what we've seen so far of course. I may walk about of the theater with a completely different opinion. And in any case, I can accept a Flash archetype over a particular Flash's character. Its just a movie, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Millar's Flash certainly does have a certain "Flash-ness" to him and embody many of the character traits associated with the property. But he doesn't feel very much like Barry Allen to me. You can see the Barry-isms are there.....but it's not really Barry. I feel like Millar is playing a solid Flash archetype, but not so much the character of Barry Allen.

    From what we've seen so far of course. I may walk about of the theater with a completely different opinion. And in any case, I can accept a Flash archetype over a particular Flash's character. Its just a movie, after all.
    Outside of comics, media such as TV and movies seem to have always gone for a generic Flash archetype rather than really delve in to the specific characterizations of Jay, Barry, Wally, and Bart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Outside of comics, media such as TV and movies seem to have always gone for a generic Flash archetype rather than really delve in to the specific characterizations of Jay, Barry, Wally, and Bart.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I feel like this started in the 90's TV show if not STAS/JL/JLU. While it does make the character likable to fans, but it does lead to arguments that when they have the comedic Flash archetype, there simply copying one Flash(Wally or Bart per most arguments) as opposed to making them distinctive yet still likable as people. Yes there are some distinctive way they handle this base archetypes, but it's one that producers love using nonetheless.

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    As someone whose first exposure to Flash and his dynamics with the JL was through JL/JLU, this seems in a similar vein, even if it's Barry. A lot of people growing up in the 90's and 00's see Flash as the jokester/baby brother of the League. And the show ended up giving Wally's personality traits to Barry so there's precedence in that regard as well.

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    But Ezra isn’t coming off as the wacky version of Wally from JLU. He seems quite nerdy, a little awkward, and in total awe of what’s going on around him. In the Silver Age, Barry was a comic book nerd, had a crew cut, would wear bow ties, and was known for always being late. Kind of a stereotypical nerd. Once he became the Flash he was more of the prototypical hero personality. He lost most of his quirky personality traits and became kind of boring. I’m happy to see some of those traits being brought back in The Flash tv show and now in the DCEU. I think Ezra is playing Barry as a “nerd” but the thing is that nerds are now cool. So he’s what Hollywood perceives as a nerd.

  8. #20663
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    Question: has Barry or Wally even been accurately portrayed in live-action or animated form? Not since the '80s ended, at any rate.
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  9. #20664
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Question: has Barry or Wally even been accurately portrayed in live-action or animated form? Not since the '80s ended, at any rate.
    Young Justice came close IMO but not really. I love Barry on Flash and Wally in JL and JLU and think Ezra will do fine but yeah Flash rarely gets portrayed as he is in the comics. But who does? There been debates and even articles about the portrayal of Superman and Batman in the DCEU. These aren't the comic versions nor should they be I mean the characters even change in the comics from writer to writer and especially with Reboots.
    Last edited by Jokerz79; 10-15-2017 at 06:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Young Justice came close IMO but not really.
    I agree that's the closest, but still not quite.

    I love Barry on Flash and Wally in JL and JLU and think Ezra will do fine but yeah Flash rarely gets portrayed as he is in the comics. But who does? There been debates and even articles about the portrayal of Superman and Batman in the DCEU. These are the comic versions nor should they be I mean the characters even change in the comics from writer to writer and especially with Reboots.
    I agree. The characters are pliable and shaped certain ways if the story desires it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Question: has Barry or Wally even been accurately portrayed in live-action or animated form? Not since the '80s ended, at any rate.
    I guess your opinion on that would also probably depend on what you think Barry and Wally's personality are in the first place.

    But I do agree Young Justice probably came the closest to getting both Barry and Wally right and making them feel distinctive from one another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess your opinion on that would also probably depend on what you think Barry and Wally's personality are in the first place.
    Very true. There are disagreements regarding how they're depicted just in the comics alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Very true. There are disagreements regarding how they're depicted just in the comics alone.
    Which is why I made the venn diagram! Which most generally agreed with and added to.

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    I might add a 3rd bubble for Bart in the future. JLU Wally struck me as very Impulse esque.
    Last edited by Lightning Rider; 10-15-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  14. #20669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    Which is why I made the venn diagram! Which most generally agreed with and added to.

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    I might add a 3rd bubble for Bart in the future. JLU Wally struck me as very Impulse esque.
    Great stuff, Bogotazo, and I agree on all counts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman2978 View Post
    While Ezra Barry serves the same purpose of JL Wally(the rookie/comedic role), He definitely seems like he is playing on the core Barry characteristics in a Ezra fashion(how Barry is always fashionable late in the scene with Commissioner Gordon, his fanboy/comic loving persona, the absentmindedness, the scientist, and his everyman nature). So it's basically the best of all Flashes.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Millar's Flash certainly does have a certain "Flash-ness" to him and embody many of the character traits associated with the property. But he doesn't feel very much like Barry Allen to me. You can see the Barry-isms are there.....but it's not really Barry. I feel like Millar is playing a solid Flash archetype, but not so much the character of Barry Allen.

    From what we've seen so far of course. I may walk about of the theater with a completely different opinion. And in any case, I can accept a Flash archetype over a particular Flash's character. Its just a movie, after all.
    Maybe so to a certain degree... I just can't agree with those who say that he is playing Barry just like Wally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    But Ezra isn’t coming off as the wacky version of Wally from JLU. He seems quite nerdy, a little awkward, and in total awe of what’s going on around him. In the Silver Age, Barry was a comic book nerd, had a crew cut, would wear bow ties, and was known for always being late. Kind of a stereotypical nerd. Once he became the Flash he was more of the prototypical hero personality. He lost most of his quirky personality traits and became kind of boring. I’m happy to see some of those traits being brought back in The Flash tv show and now in the DCEU. I think Ezra is playing Barry as a “nerd” but the thing is that nerds are now cool. So he’s what Hollywood perceives as a nerd.
    I think that is definitely what Miller is attempting.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Question: has Barry or Wally even been accurately portrayed in live-action or animated form? Not since the '80s ended, at any rate.
    Young Justice, JL: War. Miller's portrayal seems like a younger, exaggerated version of his portrayal in JL: War. I think people might think differently if he was blonde.

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