DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Blind Wedjat]

Although many on these boards sure try :P

I don't think anyone has the opinion that BvS is forgettable. Most people just think it's not very good. And others do think it's good of course.

I think BvS is continuously talked about for various reasons. The biggest reason I feel is a lot of hype that turned into disappointment (for some people, not all). Didn't we all know about BvS for almost three years until it's release? The movie was hyped and marketed by both people at WB/DC and fans as this soon-to-be modern pop culture phenomenon, and it didn't really deliver on that. It's one thing to say you liked the movie, but I think pretty much everyone can admit that BvS did not stick with people (including the general audience) because it was the great DC trinity on screen together for the first time. I don't think the first Avengers film is so revolutionary in it's story. It's pretty generic in plot and good enough in my opinion. But what stuck with people was the fact that these heroes they started to get to know for four years finally came together. Marvel Studios was able to pull that off with characters the general audience wasn't too knowledgeable about as they were about Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Can you imagine what it would have been like for the MCU is Avengers had failed? I should also add that comparing BvS to F4ntastic doesn't make such sense, because nobody wanted another Fantastic Four movie under FOX, and many saw it as a sly attempt to keep the film rights and as a cash grab.

Secondly (and I'm not saying this about anyone here) a lot of DC/DCEU/Zack Synder fanatics took it upon themselves to continuously take shots at the MCU and it's fans. This even extended to Zack Synder, Ben Affleck and Deborah Snyder as well (though I think hers was more like shade to Marvel Studios than an actual dis). The fanatics themselves kept saying on many boards that "the DCEU will show [Marvel fans] how it's done", "create a better cinematic universe", that the general audience is tired of "Marvel's kiddie movies", "people will take the DCEU seriously" and all of that. Zack Snyder himself called Ant-Man "flavor of the week" (something I do kinda agree with), Ben Affleck also said that BvS and other DCEU films "are more grandiose and can't be as funny or as glib as Marvel movies" and Deborah Snyder said that the DCEU films are more "director driven", if I am not mistaken, around the time Ant-Man (which infamously had directorial issues) had come out, or she just said it anyway and it was interpreted as a dig to Marvel Studios who has had issues with directors before. Whether or not one agrees with these statements is irrelevant because they said these things either way. Because of this, what happened to BvS (and the DCEU in general in 2016) was seen as karma for all those comments. It's a petty war between the fanboys of both sides of course, but Marvel 'won' at the end of it. Civil War does not get brought up repeatedly the way BvS did because it was another critical and commercial success for Marvel, while BvS, though an undeniable box office hit, seemingly performed below some expectations (the whole "it should have crossed a billion dollars" thing) and its performance was actually affected by the negative critical reception/word of mouth if I am not mistaken. Even Iron Man 2, which many of us in the fandom believe is bad, was not panned by critics. Not to talk of the persistence from the "BvS is too smart for you" crowd.

I personally don't like the film at all, but one can't deny that there's obvious reasons why BvS is still brought up unlike other bad movies. Whether it's just because it dared to be different I think isn't enough to say why it is. I think it's because it was hyped so much and disappointed a lot.

[Soubhagya]

40 Plus Hi-Res ‘Justice League’ Production Photos Released

Attachment 57269

http://pursuenews.com/40-plus-hi-res...otos-released/

She looks good!

[Jokerz79]

I have always thought that critics are a bit too critical to DC films. They may not be good but they are not so bad that they get such scores in RT. In a similar vein Marvel films are good but not so good that they get such high scores in RT. So, it appears that there is a stigma associated with it. That's good for JL. Apparently It won't go as down to 20s. Critics are more forgiving to lighter films. Let us see what DC tries next.

RDJ could not understand Dark Knight. I will take it as a compliment. Though i can't understand how he could not understand. I am unhappy with those words. He can have his view but such words are not good.

I think Rotten Tomatoes gets way too much hate honestly their scores are pretty fair.

The Nolan Batman Films all scored well with 84 for Batman Begins and both Dark Knights getting 87. Superman Returns 76 and Green Lantern got a 27 but GL was a bad movie. Now as for the DCEU

Wonder Woman got a 92 and it was a great film.
Man of Steel was pretty divisive because of it's interpretation of Superman and got a 55 which sounds fair.
BvS got a 27 but that is the theatrical cut which was a mess IMO thanks to the Studio and it deserved it's 27.
Suicide Squad got a 26 another film the Studio hacked apart in the editing room allowing a trailer house to do edits so again IMO they earned that.

Now looking at some of the lesser entries or joke filled films of the MCU.
Age of Ultron 75, Iron Man 2 73, Thor Dark World 66, Ant-Man 82, GOTG 2 82 while all scoring well none scored as well as the Nolan Trilogy or WW. Marvel delivered on what they promised a fun entertaining movie experience that's it so critics were kind and rated by that. The DCEU films that got partially slaughtered were ones that the studio hacked apart in editing is it any shock they did poor critically? IMO the anger should be at WB for not trusting their Directors and the films they made instead of Rotten Tomatoes.

[Blind Wedjat]

I think Rotten Tomatoes gets way too much hate honestly their scores are pretty fair.

The Nolan Batman Films all scored well with 84 for Batman Begins and both Dark Knights getting 87. Superman Returns 76 and Green Lantern got a 27 but GL was a bad movie. Now as for the DCEU

Wonder Woman got a 92 and it was a great film.
Man of Steel was pretty divisive because of it's interpretation of Superman and got a 55 which sounds fair.
BvS got a 27 but that is the theatrical cut which was a mess IMO thanks to the Studio and it deserved it's 27.
Suicide Squad got a 26 another film the Studio hacked apart in the editing room allowing a trailer house to do edits so again IMO they earned that.

Now looking at some of the lesser entries or joke filled films of the MCU.
Age of Ultron 75, Iron Man 2 73, Thor Dark World 66, Ant-Man 82, GOTG 2 82 while all scoring well none scored as well as the Nolan Trilogy or WW. Marvel delivered on what they promised a fun entertaining movie experience that's it so critics were kind and rated by that. The DCEU films that got partially slaughtered were ones that the studio hacked apart in editing is it any shock they did poor critically? IMO the anger should be at WB for not trusting their Directors and the films they made instead of Rotten Tomatoes.

Exactly! Someone gets it. There's really no bias at all. There are other things that made BvS and SS bad other than the tone of those movies. The pacing in the TC of BvS is atrocious. The UC for me, fixes that problem but I still think it's a very bad movie. Acting like there's some sort of bias and only looking at the tone is what many people, WB included seem to be doing and that's ignoring the problem. I hope JL doesn't face the same thing.

[Soubhagya]

I think Rotten Tomatoes gets way too much hate honestly their scores are pretty fair.

The Nolan Batman Films all scored well with 84 for Batman Begins and both Dark Knights getting 87. Superman Returns 76 and Green Lantern got a 27 but GL was a bad movie. Now as for the DCEU

Wonder Woman got a 92 and it was a great film.
Man of Steel was pretty divisive because of it's interpretation of Superman and got a 55 which sounds fair.
BvS got a 27 but that is the theatrical cut which was a mess IMO thanks to the Studio and it deserved it's 27.
Suicide Squad got a 26 another film the Studio hacked apart in the editing room allowing a trailer house to do edits so again IMO they earned that.

Now looking at some of the lesser entries or joke filled films of the MCU.
Age of Ultron 75, Iron Man 2 73, Thor Dark World 66, Ant-Man 82, GOTG 2 82 while all scoring well none scored as well as the Nolan Trilogy or WW. Marvel delivered on what they promised a fun entertaining movie experience that's it so critics were kind and rated by that. The DCEU films that got partially slaughtered were ones that the studio hacked apart in editing is it any shock they did poor critically? IMO the anger should be at WB for not trusting their Directors and the films they made instead of Rotten Tomatoes.

I am not hating RT. They are pretty accurate. It is a good meter to gauge how good the movie is. On my part i have enjoyed all the Marvel movies that i have watched. Even Incredible Hulk.

Its just that the scores for DC movies are a bit too low. A previous quote posted that a critic said this is how it should be. Superhero films should be comedic. So maybe its possible that a few jokes could have improved BvS and Man of Steel scores. Haven't seen SS to make an opinion on that. I maybe wrong in BvS though. I did not see it in theaters. Have seen the Ultimate Cut. It was not a film for 20s. Maybe 40ish. About MoS you are true. Its divisive so the score.

If my post gave an impression that RT is wrong that was not what i meant. I was saying that perhaps critics are more forgiving to superhero films which are more comedic.

If the scores are a gauge for seeing if its entertaining then they are pretty accurate. I hate Superman Returns for butchering Superman. But the film was more enjoyable then MoS for me.

[nightbird]

[WhipWhirlwind]

I am not hating RT. They are pretty accurate. It is a good meter to gauge how good the movie is. On my part i have enjoyed all the Marvel movies that i have watched. Even Incredible Hulk.

Its just that the scores for DC movies are a bit too low. A previous quote posted that a critic said this is how it should be. Superhero films should be comedic. So maybe its possible that a few jokes could have improved BvS and Man of Steel scores. Haven't seen SS to make an opinion on that. I maybe wrong in BvS though. I did not see it in theaters. Have seen the Ultimate Cut. It was not a film for 20s. Maybe 40ish. About MoS you are true. Its divisive so the score.

If my post gave an impression that RT is wrong that was not what i meant. I was saying that perhaps critics are more forgiving to superhero films which are more comedic.

If the scores are a gauge for seeing if its entertaining then they are pretty accurate. I hate Superman Returns for butchering Superman. But the film was more enjoyable then MoS for me.

I think the issue is that RT rewards unifying movies and punishes divisive movies by design.

[Confuzzled]

I think the issue is that RT rewards unifying movies and punishes divisive movies by design.

Yeah. I think the actual critics are fair but the rigid "Fresh/Rotten" system disproportionally awards MCU fare like Doctor Strange and Ragnarok because while they have many shortcomings, people would be hard pressed to say they are NOT enjoyable/fresh.

OTOH, stuff like MoS and BvS may work for some people and may not for others. But when demanded to say whether these movies are "fresh" or "rotten", someone who has a middling opinion of them (scoring it say, 5-6/10) could just go, "You know what, that score doesn't scream fresh so I will just categorize the film as rotten". So the tomato percentage ends up looking much worse than the average rating.

[CPSparkles]

I've decided what I most want out of Justice League. Apart from wanting it to be great or at least good, believing it will be GREAT until further notice, and wanting it to succeed like crazy so we get a lot more DC movies, STAT...

What I want to see most is the maximum number of cameos. This is a NO SPOILER thread, but I'm curious to know who people would love to see show up. Please do not even joke about rumors. I'm unspoiled on this point and several others will be as well.

This is a wishful thinking thing. If people respond to say they think it would make a fun poll I'll create a new thread for it. But only if there's interest.

I want to see:

Nightwing/Robin - Any Robin or Nightwing would make me wet my pants. Chris O'Donnell/Schumacher does not count. And therefore we've had 5 modern Batman movies and have yet to see even a flashback cameo to the most classic duo of all time: "Batman and Robin." If Nightwing or Robin is in this movie and we get our first real modern live-action take on Batman and Robin or Batman and Nightwing that would be enough to make me love the movie forever. In order of preference: Dick Grayson Robin (flashback), Tim Drake Robin (current), Nightwing, Jason Todd (necessarily flashback), Damian. I'd prefer they save Damian. I want to see a more classic Robin first.

Green Lantern(s) - Any and all would make me happy. I'd be disappointed I guess to get a GL we'd never seen before but any GL from the comics would be a great treat for me and I'd love to see the JL fighting together with a GL. The color scheme has been off with the "big five" even though they made Aquaman wear all green. My geek out JL movie moment just has GL in it. It just does.

Martian Manhunter - See above. Maybe DC makes everyone happy and has 8 founders to accommodate GL, MM, and Cyborg fans. Hey, I'm fantasizing here!

Green Arrow - Joined in #4, practically a founder, a good character guy

Black Canary - along with Mera, more ass-kicking women. Apart from my longtime Harley burnout (I did like Margot Robbie) I'd be happy with any female superhero. Which brings me to...

Hawkman and Hawkgirl - who doesn't want to see them soaring through the air taking out parademons in their Thanagarian costumes?

Elongated Man. What? I love Elongated Man.

Classic JLA villain: Starro, Kanjar Ro, Despero, the Royal Flush Gang, Dr. (Arthur) Light... any classic JL villains for them to cut their teeth on. Or to provide the outro to the film, showing them continuing to do battle together.

How about someone freaky like Swamp Thing?

I've decided. This is what I want most. The most live-action versions of DC heroes and villains possible.

WITHOUT REFERENCING A SINGLE RUMOR beyond the six (incl. Superman), WHO DO YOU WANT TO SEE?

And/or what do you most hope to see in this film?

After the the disasters we've had in the Robin department I have very little interest in seeing Robin but if we must then go big or go home. I want a Robin that's as far removed from anything we've ever seen as far away from the everything the public us expecting. Damian is the only Robin I'm interested in seeing and the only one that can salvage Robin's lame reputation with movie goers.

I would love to see the whole family with Robin and Red Robin being the ones I'm least excited for. Let Robin be in flashbacks alone like for setting up Nightwing and Red Hood.

[Frontier]

40 Plus Hi-Res ‘Justice League’ Production Photos Released

Attachment 57269

http://pursuenews.com/40-plus-hi-res...otos-released/

The Queen has arrived .

[The Darknight Detective]

Yeah. I think the actual critics are fair but the rigid "Fresh/Rotten" system disproportionally awards MCU fare like Doctor Strange and Ragnarok because while they have many shortcomings, people would be hard pressed to say they are NOT enjoyable/fresh.

OTOH, stuff like MoS and BvS may work for some people and may not for others. But when demanded to say whether these movies are "fresh" or "rotten", someone who has a middling opinion of them (scoring it say, 5-6/10) could just go, "You know what, that score doesn't scream fresh so I will just categorize the film as rotten". So the tomato percentage ends up looking much worse than the average rating.

Exactly, Confuzzled, and it really isn't arguable, either.

[Soubhagya]

Yeah. I think the actual critics are fair but the rigid "Fresh/Rotten" system disproportionally awards MCU fare like Doctor Strange and Ragnarok because while they have many shortcomings, people would be hard pressed to say they are NOT enjoyable/fresh.

OTOH, stuff like MoS and BvS may work for some people and may not for others. But when demanded to say whether these movies are "fresh" or "rotten", someone who has a middling opinion of them (scoring it say, 5-6/10) could just go, "You know what, that score doesn't scream fresh so I will just categorize the film as rotten". So the tomato percentage ends up looking much worse than the average rating.

This seems alright. I agree with you.

[Clark_Kent]

I don't think anyone has the opinion that BvS is forgettable. Most people just think it's not very good. And others do think it's good of course.

I think BvS is continuously talked about for various reasons. The biggest reason I feel is a lot of hype that turned into disappointment (for some people, not all). Didn't we all know about BvS for almost three years until it's release? The movie was hyped and marketed by both people at WB/DC and fans as this soon-to-be modern pop culture phenomenon, and it didn't really deliver on that. It's one thing to say you liked the movie, but I think pretty much everyone can admit that BvS did not stick with people (including the general audience) because it was the great DC trinity on screen together for the first time. I don't think the first Avengers film is so revolutionary in it's story. It's pretty generic in plot and good enough in my opinion. But what stuck with people was the fact that these heroes they started to get to know for four years finally came together. Marvel Studios was able to pull that off with characters the general audience wasn't too knowledgeable about as they were about Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Can you imagine what it would have been like for the MCU is Avengers had failed? I should also add that comparing BvS to F4ntastic doesn't make such sense, because nobody wanted another Fantastic Four movie under FOX, and many saw it as a sly attempt to keep the film rights and as a cash grab.

Secondly (and I'm not saying this about anyone here) a lot of DC/DCEU/Zack Synder fanatics took it upon themselves to continuously take shots at the MCU and it's fans. This even extended to Zack Synder, Ben Affleck and Deborah Snyder as well (though I think hers was more like shade to Marvel Studios than an actual dis). The fanatics themselves kept saying on many boards that "the DCEU will show [Marvel fans] how it's done", "create a better cinematic universe", that the general audience is tired of "Marvel's kiddie movies", "people will take the DCEU seriously" and all of that. Zack Snyder himself called Ant-Man "flavor of the week" (something I do kinda agree with), Ben Affleck also said that BvS and other DCEU films "are more grandiose and can't be as funny or as glib as Marvel movies" and Deborah Snyder said that the DCEU films are more "director driven", if I am not mistaken, around the time Ant-Man (which infamously had directorial issues) had come out, or she just said it anyway and it was interpreted as a dig to Marvel Studios who has had issues with directors before. Whether or not one agrees with these statements is irrelevant because they said these things either way. Because of this, what happened to BvS (and the DCEU in general in 2016) was seen as karma for all those comments. It's a petty war between the fanboys of both sides of course, but Marvel 'won' at the end of it. Civil War does not get brought up repeatedly the way BvS did because it was another critical and commercial success for Marvel, while BvS, though an undeniable box office hit, seemingly performed below some expectations (the whole "it should have crossed a billion dollars" thing) and its performance was actually affected by the negative critical reception/word of mouth if I am not mistaken. Even Iron Man 2, which many of us in the fandom believe is bad, was not panned by critics. Not to talk of the persistence from the "BvS is too smart for you" crowd.

I personally don't like the film at all, but one can't deny that there's obvious reasons why BvS is still brought up unlike other bad movies. Whether it's just because it dared to be different I think isn't enough to say why it is. I think it's because it was hyped so much and disappointed a lot.

What I meant by my comment was that many posters on CBR have used it as a way to slam the film. I’ve lost count of all the times I’ve heard someone say “the film was utterly forgettable.” I usually see this from posters who don’t really have a reason as to why the film is “bad”, so they just say “forgettable”. That’s why I ended my post with a tongue lol

Most of the people in this thread don’t do this, so I should have been more clear. It’s mostly from other threads, and the people here usually give good reasoning for not liking it, even if I disagree with it. Buried Allen said it was certainly not forgettable, so I was trying to be cheeky...as Mr. J says, though, “if you have to explain a joke, it’s no joke!” lol

[manofsteel1979]

I don't think the issue of is RT itself. It's the tendency of the vitriolic haters of the DCEU and the hardcore Marvel can do no wrong fanboys to shove the RT scores in faces of those that disagree with them to prove their own subjective opinion as fact and to attempt to imply that those that don't hate Zack Snyder with the same white hot hatred they do are wrong and it's blasphemous to dare like these movies or speak positively about them.

I do however happen to think there is a bias of sorts among the critical community, but I don't think it stems from any malice of Snyder or DC per say ,nor do I buy the " Disney buys off critics" conspiracy theories. I just think many critics have a preconceived notion of what comic book and Superhero genre films should be like and anything that falls outside that safe area or doesn't hit certain expectations, then they tend to start picking movies apart over things they probably wouldn't normally bother with. I think with MOS, many people expected a certain kind of movie and a certain take on the title character, and when they didn't get that, suddenly the admittingly somewhat problematic last act and the depicted destruction got zeroed in on, even though the destruction level in Avengers was arguably as bad if not worse. As far as BvS...Again certain preconceived notions and expectations weren't met, and combined with the choppy editing, damned it.

Wonder Woman on the other hand didn't really have the albatross of expectations and preconceptions and thus people were willing to overlook it's weaknesses, which admittingly were few.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yeah. I think the actual critics are fair but the rigid "Fresh/Rotten" system disproportionally awards MCU fare like Doctor Strange and Ragnarok because while they have many shortcomings, people would be hard pressed to say they are NOT enjoyable/fresh.

OTOH, stuff like MoS and BvS may work for some people and may not for others. But when demanded to say whether these movies are "fresh" or "rotten", someone who has a middling opinion of them (scoring it say, 5-6/10) could just go, "You know what, that score doesn't scream fresh so I will just categorize the film as rotten". So the tomato percentage ends up looking much worse than the average rating.

RT is heavily flawed. As a site that collects critical reviews it's a great one stop station but this tomato thing is just silly. The average score of the film is what should matter (instead it's small print under the massive tomato rating), and thus they should let the reader decide if the review is negative or not instead of forcing the reviewer to pick "fresh" or "rotten" in other words "negative or positive".

I don't care about RT at all but the problem is many people still do though so it gets brought up constantly when talking about films.