DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[manofsteel1979]

Exactly. Totally agree. Picking out some of the MoS and BvS reviews show that for a lot of critics, either the character choice contradicts a longstanding popular conception, or the tone of the film doesn't match the writer's preference for the genre.

MOS:


There's very little humor or joy in this Superman story.

Cavill broods handsomely as Superman, but this reboot skimps on fun and romance.

This Superman has the rare ability of making us look back fondly on 2006's nostalgic Superman Returns-a film that elicited a nearly universal "meh."

What's missing in Snyder's Superman is a dash of the hokey goodness that Christopher Reeve contributed to the role and the comic cold cheesiness that Gene Hackman and Terrence Stamp brought as Luthor and Zod.

No fun costume change in a phone booth, no wowing humans with his powers and no repartee with reporter Lois Lane.

Super-duper-overStatement. A cataclysm-caravan of speeches, doomed and desolate landscapes, proclamations of glorious destiny or rebirth, and sprawling, stone-faced seriousness. Can't save itself from self-suffocating grandiosity.

Good old fashioned fun is treated as something passé in Zack Snyder's Superman reboot, which is long, laborious and repetitive.

You'll believe a man can frown. A lot.

With Zack 'Watchman' Snyder and Christopher 'Dark Knight' Nolan behind the film, it's no surprise the mood should be dark and serious. If you're hankering after the playful innocence of Christopher Reeve's Superman, you'll definitely be disappointed.

The joyless pic never won my heart.

The attempt to do something different and a bit darker is admirable but this Superman doesn't fly, it just assaults the senses. Where's the fun?

Man of Steel (has) a cold heart that no amount of spectacle can compensate for.

The original superhero is given the sense of spectacle he deserves - but this is a cold, emotionless film that never makes us care for Superman the way he's supposed to care about us.

To quote the Joker in "The Dark Knight," "Why so serious?" There's no joy in this story.

Man of Steel contains little fun apart from the visceral thrill of seeing objects smashed in one of its endless action sequences.

For now, audiences can only speculate as to the hidden depths of Cavill, who in Zack Snyder's busy, bombastic creation myth is reduced to little more than a joyless cipher or dazzling physical specimen.

"Man of Steel" doesn't do quite as much damage to the 75-year-old hero, but next time out I hope his lighter spirits are allowed to soar.

Every opportunity for humor, compassion or plausible responses to otherworldly phenomena is buried beneath product placements and CGI special effects.

This is a film we are to take seriously, because nothing says serious more than watching men in capes hitting each other with cars.

At the end of the day Man of Steel is yet another tedious origin story that boils down to a Real Estate scheme and giant Spider ships. Superman is not Batman, he is not supposed to be dark, gritty, and joyless. Where is the hope?

There's no reason why a superhero film can't dabble in darkness, but in the process Snyder forgets to make his movie fun.

[It] is thoughtfully crafted and occasionally breathtaking; what it isn't, unfortunately, is much fun.

You'll believe a man can mope.

Zack Snyder, Christopher Nolan and David S. Goyer have managed to become Superman's very own Kryptonite, stripping the iconic character of his greatest assets: wit, charm, and most importantly, hope.

Utterly devoid of wit or charm.

BvS:


Remember when comic book movies were fun? Well, you'll have to use your memory because there's not much fun to be found in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

The superhero world needed better storytelling, a comic touch and more than a few rays of sunshine. The story is crippled by special effects from start to finish.

All this gloom and doom is just the pits.

As a superhero flick, it's shockingly joyless and overlong, with the two iconic crimefighters presented as angry, cranky, easily manipulated men in tights.

Like a movie from the world of Watchmen: cold, cruel, borderline incoherent in its testosterone-fueled rage, misogynist, paternalistic... fascist, even.

If Christopher Reeve were alive he'd be suing for character libel.

When was it decided superhero movies shouldn't be any fun?

There's no joy here, no wonder or spectacle, just a relentlessly grim and intense grind that can't stop reminding you how grim and intense it is.

While it's one thing to take superheroes seriously, it's another to drain all the fun out of them.

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice was supposed to settle a fanboy debate older than Adam West. Instead it raises another: Is being a superhero really this much of a drag?

Affleck and Gadot are impressive in their debuts, but there really are no winners in Batman v Superman. That includes moviegoers looking for anything resembling a good time.

For the life of me, after two and a half hours, I couldn't tell you why Batman and Superman were fighting. (Quit your job you utter dumbass)

Blunt, humorless, and baffling, it collides the brutish directorial stamp of its director (he of 300 and Watchmen fame) with the most shameless instincts of our latter-day superhero franchise bubble.

In the words of The Joker in a far better Batman movie: "Why so serious?"

Snyder and company wouldn't understand the possible joy within the genre if it jumped up and bit them in the ambitions

That fight comes late in the game, and it's so grim, humorless, and vicious, it stops being thrilling early on. It isn't in the service of any of the themes the film has struggled to express, it's just a meat-headed, brutal throwdown. (Right, fights are supposed to be humorFUL.)

Rather than escapism and sensory exhilaration, viewers get down in the mire with protagonists who grimace, scowl and wince their way through heroics with the joyless determination of shift workers making the doughnuts.

A popcorn film - and this is a popcorn film - should never feel like Sunday night homework.

Overlong, underdeveloped and almost entirely humorless, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice may please die-hard fans by pitting two DC icons against each other. Everyone else may want to wait for the next Marvel movie.

The film may be imposing, but it's not fun.

Seeing the words "joy", "wit", "charm", "humor", and "fun" written so many times just makes me want to take a bat to Avengers. And I liked it.

All of those reviews are basically saying " why can't it be like Christopher Reeve? It needs to be more like the Donner films! Not muh Superman!"

Which is why I'll continue to defend MOS in spite of it's flaws.

[mace11]

Here is a video from john campea.
I agree with him here about this subject below.
Of course i agree with him on some stuff and there is stuff i don't agree with him.

Dark And Gritty Vs Light And Fun - What Makes A Better Comic-Book Movie - The John Campea Podcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JrWzS3Frdc


Why Marvel’s Success Story is More Than Just a ‘Formula’



http://screenrant.com/marvel-movie-formula-brand/

All mcu movies are rated higher on average then dceu movies from critics to audiences,like it or not.
All are mcu movies are RATED higher then dceu movies on the Rt Tomatometer and Audiences liked scores.
None are rotten on RT.
Keep in that mind people.

Note-most of the mcu movies if i could recall do not have world ending events by the ways.

The Marvel Formula is why Critics hate DC?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keUFPNdbRHQ

[Clark_Kent]

Uh oh, watch out. We have Campea, Mark Hughes, and a bunch of youtube commenters telling me I’m wrong. It’s a good thing all of those are trusted, honest, non-biased individuals

Well, Hughes is ok. He’s hit & miss. But Campea? lol

Also, why do you care so much if they’re labeled action comedy or not? I never said it was a dig on the films, so I’m not sure why you’re digging up nobody youtube comments? And feel free to address what I said: “when every dramatic moment is punctuated with a sight gag, one liner, or dance off, then it’s an action comedy.”

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Watching MoS again. And damn Shannon makes a compelling Zod!!

Also......2 weeks until JL baby!!

[Clark_Kent]

Watching MoS again. And damn Shannon makes a compelling Zod!!

Also......2 weeks until JL baby!!

I love his Zod. He’s not a mustache-twirling bad guy, and he has reasons for doing what he does. And when Superman stops him, Zod is utterly destroyed because he no longer has a purpose. I don’t think this version of Zod gets nearly enough credit.

[Pinsir]

Metacritic scores for mcu films in mid 70's and above not this year.

Iron Man -79
Guardians of the Galaxy -76
Captain America: Civil War-75

I didn't say there weren't though...

I don't know about this. I mean Logan was lauded by critics, and got Oscar buzz without a public campaign like Wonder Woman is doing. That movie is downright depressing for me (even though I did like it). I think the reason the tone of the DCEU movies like BvS and MoS were brought up because the critics didn't find any other redeeming qualities in those films. That's how I see it anyway.

A lot of of critics do actually have problems dissecting films. One of the new media reviews I have respect for is Chris Stuckmann and in one of his videos he says that a lot of modern reviewers simply lack the appreciation or even have the basic knowledge of the technical aspect of film making, how light, space, colour, etc are utilized in scene composition. Again, this is a problem I think caused by shifting demographics of film reviewers, where published critics probably went to college and were instructed in film theory, where as nowadays its all about 'nerd' culture. This entails though, that since most reviewers lack the ability to discuss how scenes are created (or when they do, it does tend to be bare bones), they only focus on narrative and character.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I love his Zod. He’s not a mustache-twirling bad guy, and he has reasons for doing what he does. And when Superman stops him, Zod is utterly destroyed because he no longer has a purpose. I don’t think this version of Zod gets nearly enough credit.

It definitely doesn't, the moment when he gets zoned by the higher ups on Krypton I could feel the intensity and the "I will find him". So good.

People say the DCEU has no memorable villains, there is one right there!

[Clark_Kent]

It definitely doesn't, the moment when he gets zoned by the higher ups on Krypton I could feel the intensity and the "I will find him". So good.

People say the DCEU has no memorable villains, there is one right there!

100% agreed!

My favorite moment is when Clark wakes up on the ship, and says “you killed him.” And with a quiet reflection on his face, he says “I did. And not a day goes by that I’m not haunted by it.” The way Shannon delivers the line, you believe it. You believe in that moment that Zod is regretful, but he acted in what he thought was the best interest of Krypton. It’s very understated, but effective.

His performance actually made me a fan of the character.

[mace11]

I explain awhile back in this thread and some others but it was ignored clearly. I think i did a really good job at it but some others have too.

Example.
Where is all these jokes in avengers first film every 2 minutes like some like to say here?
Were there non stop jokes in the last battle scene?no.
Where are all jokes every 2 or 5 minutes in captain america civil war,first avenger,incredible hulk,doctor strange,ironman and captain america 2 for Example?none.

Look i really like the dceu but some of the dceu fans have to stop over exaggerating and telling lies about the mcu and dceu.
I watch both.
I think the dceu is not trash and in fact i really like wonder woman and mos.
I like bvs and i have not seen SS yet.
Only some of it and plan to watch the rest later and i really look forward to the rest of dceu,but of course i look more forward more to the mcu films and shows because i am more of a marvel fan and i think the mcu has done a better better telling thier stories as awhole and they have stronger character development and on average better action and special effects.

Like i said before dc films as whole are light hearted,while marvel films(including non mcu ones)are really darker and more serious on average.
Anyway dceu is getting more lighted hearted on average anyway and marvel mcu will still have some more serious and darker films in future.

Note- there was more destruction in mos then avengers 1 by the way.

[Lightning Rider]

Villians in mcu


MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 4
http://forums.superherohype.com/show...=505133&page=5


Mcu movie villain are decent to really good,but remember the main focus are heroes,not villains.
The mcu shows have better developed villains on average then the mcu movies by the way.Hive,quake's mom and ward on aos were developed villains for example,then there is kingpin,kilgrave,villains from the marvel's peggy carter show etc..
I think live action dc shows villains are more developed then dc movie villains too,so it's not only just a live action marvel thing.

I don't think importing random comments and debates aren't helping the thread discussion much. However on this point I will say I don't think the MCU villains have been good. Loki was decent. Everyone else was totally forgettable. Lex wasn't well received by all but he acted and schemed as we would expect Lex to with the same philosophical outlook.

[Lightning Rider]

I explain awhile back in this thread and some others but it was ignored clearly. I think i did a really good job at it but some others have too.

Example.
Where is all these jokes in avengers first film every 2 minutes like some like to say here?
Were there non stop jokes in the last battle scene?no.
Where are all jokes every 2 or 5 minutes in captain america civil war,first avenger,incredible hulk,doctor strange,ironman and captain america 2 for Example?none.
.

The first Avengers film was full of jokes during the final battle. Moments like "Puny God", upon reflection, were pretty ridiculous.

The climactic battle in Civil War was completely marred by jokes. Instead of a real fight it felt completely trivial. Ant-Man was quipping, Hawkeye was quipping, Spider-Man was quipping, it's like everyone's voice collapsed into RDJ's wit.

Iron Man reinvented Stark as a snark machine.

Incredible Hulk wasn't full of jokes but it wasn't great. I find the original much better.

First Avenger wasn't full of jokes, neither was Winter Soldier. But Age of Ultron sure was. The main villain is defeated and he goes "Oh, come on!" Sucks all the gravity out of it.

People like it, that's fine, that's not for me. It doesn't ruin the movies for me but it takes me out of the seriousness the situation supposedly calls for. And I don't appear to be alone. (Notice in the search bar I made no mention of marvel, the mcu, or even comic book movies.)

[mace11]

The first Avengers film was full of jokes during the final battle. Moments like "Puny God", upon reflection, were pretty ridiculous.

I disagree with this
So ironman fighting bucky and cap in the last major battle scene was full of jokes?nope it was not.
The airport battee scene had some jokey superheroes in it like ant-man and spiderman to to some extent ironman.They were not trying to kill each other and it god more serois at the end.it was real fight
Civil war tone was closer to cap 2 then avengers.

Iron Man reinvented Stark as a snark machine.

Incredible Hulk wasn't full of jokes but it wasn't great. I find the original much better.

I thought Incredible hulk was great and better the original one,but i like both but i like Incredible hulk much more.

First Avenger wasn't full of jokes, neither was Winter Soldier. But Age of Ultron sure was. The main villain is defeated and he goes "Oh, come on!" Sucks all the gravity out of it.

People like it, that's fine, that's not for me. It doesn't ruin the movies for me but it takes me out of the seriousness the situation supposedly calls for.

I disgree with this view as well.

The first Avengers film was full of jokes during the final battle. Moments like "Puny God", upon reflection, were pretty ridiculous.

No it was not.
This is an example on what i am talking about.The hulk puny god thing was funny and worked really well but hey that's your problem.

Incredible Hulk wasn't full of jokes but it wasn't great. I find the original much better.

I thought Incredible hulk was great and better the original one,but i like both but i like Incredible hulk much more.

The climactic battle in Civil War was completely marred by jokes. Instead of a real fight it felt completely trivial. Ant-Man was quipping, Hawkeye was quipping, Spider-Man was quipping, it's like everyone's voice collapsed into RDJ's wit.
People like it, that's fine, that's not for me. It doesn't ruin the movies for me but it takes me out of the seriousness the situation supposedly calls for.

Age of Ultron had more jokes then first avengers film but it did not have full of jokes.By the way what you guys are calling jokes is really humor more then joke humor.
I guess the humor in superman 1, 2 and the dark knight took you out of the films too.
By the way the dark knight had alot of humor in there and folks would say bvs had some out of place humor.If anything bvs should have really taken you out of it not some of the mcu films with more humor.

[Clark_Kent]

The first Avengers film was full of jokes during the final battle. Moments like "Puny God", upon reflection, were pretty ridiculous.

The climactic battle in Civil War was completely marred by jokes. Instead of a real fight it felt completely trivial. Ant-Man was quipping, Hawkeye was quipping, Spider-Man was quipping, it's like everyone's voice collapsed into RDJ's wit.

Iron Man reinvented Stark as a snark machine.

Incredible Hulk wasn't full of jokes but it wasn't great. I find the original much better.

First Avenger wasn't full of jokes, neither was Winter Soldier. But Age of Ultron sure was. The main villain is defeated and he goes "Oh, come on!" Sucks all the gravity out of it.

People like it, that's fine, that's not for me. It doesn't ruin the movies for me but it takes me out of the seriousness the situation supposedly calls for. And I don't appear to be alone. (Notice in the search bar I made no mention of marvel, the mcu, or even comic book movies.)

Couldn’t have said it better myself! (slow clap)

I enjoy the part about how “DCEU fans need to stop exaggerating” though...for the accusation of being ignored, it’s ironic and I guess he missed the parts where I said there was nothing wrong with the MCU action comedy formula, and how I own every MCU film but one lol

[Clark_Kent]

I disgree with this view as well.



No it was not.
This is an example on what i am talking about.The hulk puny god thing was funny and worked really well but hey that's your problem.



I thought Incredible hulk was great and better the original one,but i like both but i like Incredible hulk much more.






Age of Ultron had more jokes then first avengers film but it did not have full of jokes.By the way what you guys are calling jokes is really humor more then joke humor.
I guess the humor in superman 1, 2 and the dark knight took you out of the films too.
By the way the dark knight had alot of humor in there and folks would say bvs had some out of place humor.If anything bvs should have really taken you out of it not some of the mcu films with more humor.

So now you’re arguing whether the jokes were funny or not, and you’re defining what is a joke and what is considered humor?

Yep, I’m out. There’s only so much goalpost moving I can handle lol

[Frontier]

The first Avengers film was full of jokes during the final battle. Moments like "Puny God", upon reflection, were pretty ridiculous.

The climactic battle in Civil War was completely marred by jokes. Instead of a real fight it felt completely trivial. Ant-Man was quipping, Hawkeye was quipping, Spider-Man was quipping, it's like everyone's voice collapsed into RDJ's wit.

Iron Man reinvented Stark as a snark machine.

Incredible Hulk wasn't full of jokes but it wasn't great. I find the original much better.

First Avenger wasn't full of jokes, neither was Winter Soldier. But Age of Ultron sure was. The main villain is defeated and he goes "Oh, come on!" Sucks all the gravity out of it.

People like it, that's fine, that's not for me. It doesn't ruin the movies for me but it takes me out of the seriousness the situation supposedly calls for. And I don't appear to be alone. (Notice in the search bar I made no mention of marvel, the mcu, or even comic book movies.)

I think the MCU does have an over-reliance on humor and jokes that they can sometimes take any and all seriousness and gravity out of the situation, but in the cases of Avengers and Civil War I think they worked for what the creators were going for and the overall tone of the film. But your mileage may vary.

Notice that the final fight between Cap and Iron Man in Civil War had virtually no jokes or humor in it.

Plus Marvel heroes are very naturally quippy to begin with, even before Iron Man became the snarky character RDJ turned him into. Stuff like "Puny God" and Hawkeye quipping during a fight are pretty in-character.

And I will always think Incredible Hulk (and the first Thor) are the underrated gems of the MCU .