DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Amadeus Arkham]

I guess Berg isn't great with budgeting. It will be interesting to see who gets fired. I have the feeling WB will be very reactionary to the Infinity War trailer. Johns might take some heat for this too.
https://heroichollywood.com/wb-refus...ustice-league/

Unlikely Johns takes the heat since he wasn't really responsible for Justice League(he came in after shooting began) and wasn't instrumental in stopping the delay. A lot of people saying that Tsjuihara will get the boot but remember WW, Dunkrik, and It were major successes for the studio that surpassed expectations under his reign so I can definitely see him surviving the inevitable fallout from Justice League's underperformance. With all things considered, Warners had a pretty damn strong year. Justice League was one of the few black eyes for the studio this year but it's not going to sink this ship--quite the opposite it's just going to make them set a new course and abandon the initially planned destination.

[Johnny]

Unlikely Johns takes the heat since he wasn't really responsible for Justice League(he came in after shooting began) and wasn't instrumental in stopping the delay. I see a lot of people say that Tsjuihara will get the boot but remember WW, Dunkrik, and It were major success for the studio under his reign so I can definitely see him surviving the inevitable fallout from Justice League's underperformance. Warners had a pretty damn strong year all things considered, and Justice League was one of the few black eyes for the studio this year but it's not going to sink this ship--quite the opposite it's just going to make them set a new course and abandon the initially planned destination.

Pretty much. In 2017 WB had flicks like Dunkirk, WW, It, Annabelle: Creation, etc. All movies that were greatly received by both critics and moviegoers. I don't see them making some big company changes just because JL performed below expectations. The most damaging thing the movie did was sour audiences on the DCEU yet again, right after WW started changing their minds about it.

[Agent Z]

It's dealing with the death of a friendship and the downfall of Iron Man. The final scene of the flick is Captain America and Bucky beating the hell out of Iron Man (who is the moral hero) after he just found out that Bucky killed his family. I'd say that's a rough ending. It's a "tragedy" in the classical sense.

It's emotionally heavy and completely sans any CGI-man monster.

In terms of plot, its not the BEST, but the Russo Brothers make quality films. They know how to balance all these characters and tones and concepts in a way that works well.

What friendship? And didn't we have the downfall of Iron Man in IM3? Or was that Age of Ultron?

[Amadeus Arkham]

Pretty much. In 2017 WB had flicks like Dunkirk, WW, It, Annabelle: Creation, etc. All movies that were greatly received by both critics and moviegoers. I don't see them making some big company changes just because JL performed below expectations. The most damaging thing the movie did was sour audiences on the DCEU yet again, right after WW started changing their minds about it.

Yeah, its rather obvious that Warners didn't have much expectation with Justice League given it's rocky production history. Sure, they probably weren't expecting it do as badly as it's doing now but when they have more expectation for the first ever Aquaman movie than the first ever Justice League movie than you know that they know they done goofed up.

[Soubhagya]

I liked JL and hated that it wasn't what it could have been. X-Men Apocalypse just wasn't grand enough for Apocalypse plus they made some creative choices that were... well you know. Brian Singer is good with Wolverine action sequences but not necessarily with the other X-Men. It seemed almost CW in quality (I like Flash and Supergirl BTW). They will have to go much bigger to make Dark Phoenix work. I think it was good that Darkseid was not teased... it would have been too similar to the Thanos tease. The critics would have jumped all over it. The Injustice Society may have been a better starting point if BvS's Luthor was better. That is what happens when the foundation isn't strong.

On my part i absolutely loved the film. Its definitely among my top ten comic book films of all time. I got what i wanted. I simply wished for a feature length Justice League episode. And i exactly got that. In fact, it was far better then my expectations. It could have been better. Avengers is definitely a far far better film. But i am satisfied with it.

However i agree about Legion of Doom. That's smart. CG villains are not lending themselves good to film. And Darkseid would make unnecessary comparisons with Avengers and would have made the impression of an inferior Avengers knockoff complete. I am excited to see Legion of Doom in JL 2 if it happens. And this is what bothers me. It won't happen.

Perhaps reboot the DCEU with new actors except for Gadot. People have given a clear signal. We don't like your movies. We should be talking about whether it would cross the first Avengers. If it would cross 2 billion. A film with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and all shall earn one billion easily. Talks should not be about it whether it should break even. Imagine someone would have told us two years ago that JL will be among the lowest grossing DCEU movies. It would earn less then Deadpool. We would have laughed at him. Called him insane. But yet here we are.

I loved the movie. But people don't care for it.

[Confuzzled]

I guess Berg isn't great with budgeting. It will be interesting to see who gets fired. I have the feeling WB will be very reactionary to the Infinity War trailer. Johns might take some heat for this too.
https://heroichollywood.com/wb-refus...ustice-league/

I don't know why the Infinity War trailer should have any effect. The MCU has been around for a decade now. They can afford to grandstand and crow about their actors, characters and themes in their trailer. So far the DCEU was heavily reliant on the previously established iconic status of DC characters that had nothing to do with the DCEU itself. This strategy worked for some (Wonder Woman, Harley & Joker in Suicide Squad, Superman and Batman to a degree) but they need quality content to promote their lesser known characters. Flashy trailers can then be based on that content.

[Confuzzled]

On my part i absolutely loved the film. Its definitely among my top ten comic book films of all time. I got what i wanted. I simply wished for a feature length Justice League episode. And i exactly got that. In fact, it was far better then my expectations. It could have been better. Avengers is definitely a far far better film. But i am satisfied with it.

However i agree about Legion of Doom. That's smart. CG villains are not lending themselves good to film. And Darkseid would make unnecessary comparisons with Avengers and would have made the impression of an inferior Avengers knockoff complete. I am excited to see Legion of Doom in JL 2 if it happens. And this is what bothers me. It won't happen.

Perhaps reboot the DCEU with new actors except for Gadot. People have given a clear signal. We don't like your movies. We should be talking about whether it would cross the first Avengers. If it would cross 2 billion. A film with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and all shall earn one billion easily. Talks should not be about it whether it should break even. Imagine someone would have told us two years ago that JL will be among the lowest grossing DCEU movies. It would earn less then Deadpool. We would have laughed at him. Called him insane. But yet here we are.

I loved the movie. But people don't care for it.

People don't care because they have been burned thrice before with MoS, BvS and SS. The fact that the DCEU got so many chances shows how much people wanted it to succeed despite the constant negativity surrounding the franchise from the get go. But when they saw a fourth DCEU movie with a rotten score they checked out.

I don't see how that's the actors' fault though. Especially if Aquaman overperforms next year, that will seal the deal that it's not the actors, but quality that soured audiences on the DCEU.

[Slowpokeking]

I guess Berg isn't great with budgeting. It will be interesting to see who gets fired. I have the feeling WB will be very reactionary to the Infinity War trailer. Johns might take some heat for this too.
https://heroichollywood.com/wb-refus...ustice-league/

Yeah, I really don't understand how did a movie with such halfass special effect cost 300M to make, MoS got much cooler action scenes and world setting(Krypton).

If it was like 225-250M, the box office would not have been such a big problem.

[Amadeus Arkham]

I don't know why the Infinity War trailer should have any effect. The MCU has been around for a decade now. They can afford to grandstand and crow about their actors, characters and themes in their trailer. So far the DCEU was heavily reliant on the previously established iconic status of DC characters that had nothing to do with the DCEU itself.

And that's what's funny about the whole thing. DC essentially had access to a treasure trove of their A-list properties unlike Marvel who were left merely of leftovers of their B and C- list after they sold off their heavy-hitting A-listers to other studios but Marvel prevailed despite the disadvantage they were burdened with. If you told me over a decade ago that in the future that the third Thor film and the second Guardians Of Galaxy film would outgross the first ever Justice League film I would've laughed so hard until I was blue in the face. How could a studio who have access to heavy hitters like Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman lag behind a company who previously only had mostly B and C listers?


It's absurd!

[Soubhagya]

People don't care because they have been burned thrice before with MoS, BvS and SS. The fact that the DCEU got so many chances shows how much people wanted it to succeed despite the constant negativity surrounding the franchise from the get go. But when they saw a fourth DCEU movie with a rotten score they checked out.

I don't see how that's the actors' fault though. Especially if Aquaman overperforms next year, that will seal the deal that it's not the actors, but quality that soured audiences on the DCEU.

Critics score don't affect much at the BO. I have heard that RT don't affect at all. I have also heard that the RT heavily affects them. If RT affects a lot those small indie films which have 90 percent scores should all earn 600 million. If they don't affect then Pirates of Carribean would not earn as much as they did. Except for the first film none of them are actually good.

The truth is its somewhere in the middle. I have heard that the score affects upto 10% of the BO earnings. Seems reasonable. Maybe higher maybe lower but i believe its in that range.

The problem is not with actors. But the fact that audiences are soured by divisive offerings by DC so far. Except for WW not one film has been warmly received. One can see the result. Its a graph showing negative growth just as Pirates showed. Over a period of time audiences become indifferent to below par offerings.

Reboot is a way. It cleans all that is wrong and makes them feel like its a new start. Start building slowly and with patience. Give good offerings. And using that break the BO with films like JL. Crisis on Earth X is an example. People are raving about it. Its the result of building things with patience and care. MCU did that and are reaping its benefits. A reboot is among the best options to consider. I loved all the actors. And want to see more of them. But when one reboots one gets new faces. It is not half hearted. There are more good actors around.

Thus, i say reboot is a good idea. Aquaman is definitely coming. If its a success one can easily keep it in its own universe. I am doubting if they would go ahead with WW 2. They will. But i am not fully confident. Putting so much money shall give results. JL is a disaster. The fact that we are talking about breaking even for JL indicates failure. It should have been the Return of the King of DCEU. Instead it is becoming Matrix Revolutions if we make an analogy. Future films can bomb if they continue like this. That's my humble opinion.

[Confuzzled]

And that's what's funny about the whole thing. DC essentially had access to a treasure trove of their A-list properties unlike Marvel who were left merely of leftovers of their B and C- list after they sold off their heavy-hitting A-listers to other studios but Marvel prevailed despite the disadvantage they were burdened with. If you told me over a decade ago that in the future that the third Thor film and the second Guardians Of Galaxy film would outgross the first ever Justice League film I would've laughed so hard until I was blue in the face. How could a studio who have access to heavy hitters like Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman lag behind a company who previously only had mostly B and C listers?

It's absurd!

As I said, the DCEU got plenty of chances before despite rotten scores simply due to the iconic status of the DC characters. There's no way another franchise would have opened with 3 rotten movies and consistently made near or over 300M. Even the first Transformers movie made below what Man of Steel did.

Marvel couldn't afford to do that. But Feige had a strong and incredibly well-defined vision that worked really well. The DCEU lacks a visionary of that kind. I enjoy Zack Snyder's work unlike most people (though I'm not on the level of petitioning for his cuts either), but did WB execs seriously believe he was the man for the job?

[TooFlyToFail]

The idea that "critics don't like dark comic book flicks" doesn't hold any water. Captain America: The Civil War boiled down to a literal tragedy at the climax. It gets DARK, and not superfically dark.

I'm not saying that, that makes it a better story- just that there are lots of dark comic book joints.

It does get superficially, mostly. There's no tragedy, and the movie itself is not dark.

The only MCU movie that approaches "dark" is Cap 2.

[TooFlyToFail]

So apparently Warner Bros. wanted to fire Snyder after Batman v. Superman and take him off of Justice League but decided against it since they were too far into production.

Sounds awfully familiar but DC didn't get the luck with Whedon that Marvel had

Also means we will more than likely not be receiving any sort of Snyder version if Warner Bros. is ending their connection with him.

My apologies, I didn't notice the post earlier.

They're not ending their connection with him, as he's still under contract. Hes just not doing these DC movies for awhile, if ever again.

[TooFlyToFail]

Not really, he is joke compare to Brainiac, the White Martians, Mongol and a lot more, including Zod and Doomsday. Why do you pick such a low tier villain that require extra work rather than someone who is already a powerful badass?



Funny that he is much weaker than Zod's crew and Doomsday with no better characterization than Doomsday.

Wow...

Okay. You didn't read Earth 2.

[TooFlyToFail]

Unlikely Johns takes the heat since he wasn't really responsible for Justice League(he came in after shooting began) and wasn't instrumental in stopping the delay. A lot of people saying that Tsjuihara will get the boot but remember WW, Dunkrik, and It were major successes for the studio that surpassed expectations under his reign so I can definitely see him surviving the inevitable fallout from Justice League's underperformance. With all things considered, Warners had a pretty damn strong year. Justice League was one of the few black eyes for the studio this year but it's not going to sink this ship--quite the opposite it's just going to make them set a new course and abandon the initially planned destination.

Even tho it's a good thing he greenlights films like Fury Road, and Blade Runner 2049, the former barely made profit, and the latter bombed. Tsujihara likely will face heat following BvS, SS, BR2049, MM:FR, and JL.