DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Slowpokeking]

People in general don't know and don't care for such things. The online fan community knows about this. Most of the people wouldn't even know about Snyder and Whedon issues. Do people in general remember the names of directors unless they are some big names like Nolan?

But many of them went to see BVS...

[FlashEarthOne]

If audiences are loving the cast why aren't they coming? I can't ever imagine that a Justice League film. I mean Justice League film with some of the greatest and most popular heroes of all time can't earn more then 100 million dollars in the opening weekend. Can you imagine a film with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman get such dismal numbers?

You only have to look as far as BvS's reception to know why. You can kid yourself about BvS's real reception by citing certain numbers and ignoring others. Keeping the same director/writer/producer team on JL as BvS is the biggest factor of all. People saw Snyder's BvS. They weren't wiling to see his JL. More were willing to see Jenkins' WW. How can anyone think Snyder's association had nothing to do with it? The audiences made it clear that they didn't care enough to pay for Snyder's sequel to BvS.

[FlashEarthOne]

But many of them went to see BVS...

They did... and decided that they didn't want to see Snyder's version of those characters afterwards. Yet some would have you believe that it is the characters and not possibly Snyder. If that were the case WW wouldn't have sold better opening weekend.

[Soubhagya]

You only have to look as far as BvS's reception to know why. You can kid yourself about BvS's real reception by citing certain numbers and ignoring others. Keeping the same director/writer/producer team on JL as BvS is the biggest factor of all. People saw Snyder's BvS. They weren't wiling to see his JL. More were willing to see Jenkins' WW. How can anyone not think Snyder's association had nothing to do with it? The audiences made it clear that they didn't care enough to pay for Snyder's sequel to BvS.

WW is almost an entirely different thing. One thing is that Wonder Woman is just as a big name as Batman and Superman. People have been waiting to see her onscreen for years. So, she got 103 million dollars opening. That's reasonable. It got a boost by its RT score. Then it was a wonderful film with great WOM. Cinemascore of A is nothing to scoff at. Thus, it had excellent legs and a great multipiler. Yes, Snyder's associated name might be a factor. At least a large section of fans who are fans of superhero films, stayed away from it. But its possible that we are overestimating Snyder's name's influence. The film was a sequel to BvS. I think that's what kept the people away.

[Slowpokeking]

They did... and decided that they didn't want to see Snyder's version of those characters afterwards. Yet some would have you believe that it is the characters and not possibly Snyder. If that were the case WW wouldn't have sold better opening weekend.

Yes, that's what I mean.

[Soubhagya]

Fast forward to around 20 minutes. He is pissed!

Oh man if it is the truth any fan would be angry. I would be really angry if this is true. Superman's upper lip is becoming a meme. The bad cg is being derided in all circles. A few more months would have helped definitely. Someone in this position can't be engaged in this kind of practice. People wait for years to see these films.

[FlashEarthOne]

WW is almost an entirely different thing. One thing is that Wonder Woman is just as a big name as Batman and Superman. People have been waiting to see her onscreen for years. So, she got 103 million dollars opening. That's reasonable. It got a boost by its RT score. Then it was a wonderful film with great WOM. Cinemascore of A is nothing to scoff at. Thus, it had excellent legs and a great multipiler. Yes, Snyder's associated name might be a factor. At least a large section of fans who are fans of superhero films, stayed away from it. But its possible that we are overestimating Snyder's name's influence. The film was a sequel to BvS. I think that's what kept the people away.

That is my point Snyder damaged the brand. Wonder Woman was in JL. If it was promoted as directed by a different director things would have likely been better. I stated earlier that at best JL would score at 65-70% based on his critical history and reputation. It couldn't even get that.

[FlashEarthOne]

This isn't surprising...
https://heroichollywood.com/justice-...ke-signatures/

[Soubhagya]

This isn't surprising...
https://heroichollywood.com/justice-...ke-signatures/

Which again proves that Snyder is an excellent director. From my observation among the fans of Snyder's DCEU films some are apologists. They are unable to accept the fact that people in general don't like DC's films. That the films have faults. There's another section who actually love Snyder's DCEU films. And i can see the kind of love given by these fans. Art is by nature subjective. Such fans are in love with these films for real. And its really good. That shall be celebrated rather then derided.

However its pretty much proven that Snyder's films don't work for everybody. Critics and audience in general don't like them. Which is fine too. As art is subjective. While i am satisfied with JL, at times i feel its unfair that Snyder's actual fans were deprived of a proper trilogy. The film failed anyway. Rather fail giving the fans a proper closure. Its a bit unfair from my part. They thought that by making such changes they would succeed. But who can actually predict the future?

[Jon-El]

I wrote this in another thread. The DC characters really needed solo films. I watched the Avengers trailer & got chills. I'd consider myself more of a DC fan. Superman & Batman are my favorites. However, I was more excited watching the Avengers trailer than at any point during the JL movie. People have watched each of the Marvel characters for ten years! Seeing them all come together has impact. It's not about which characters are better. It's about planning & execution. Having the Justice League after only a few movies and relying on it to introduce 3 new characters wasn't the best idea. I'm more invested in the Marvel heroes because I've watched them in quite a few adventures. I'd never have dreamed I'd be more invested in Marvel characters than DC characters.

[Jokerz79]

Ah, childhood memories! That series isn't as good as I remembered it as a kid but Howard's Luthor was one of its most memorable parts.

The show doesn't hold up well it was good for what it was at the time and Sherman Howard's Lex and Michael J. Pollard as Mr. Mxyzptlk were highlights for me though.

[Jokerz79]

Oh man if it is the truth any fan would be angry. I would be really angry if this is true. Superman's upper lip is becoming a meme. The bad cg is being derided in all circles. A few more months would have helped definitely. Someone in this position can't be engaged in this kind of practice. People wait for years to see these films.

I've said this once before but I felt the film should had been delayed till mid August I know it's a long time and going 3 comic-cons without the film would be bad but it would give them time to clean up the effects and get all the kinks out and I chose mid August because it's the earliest part of 2018 with no Major Franchise films basically the last two weeks of August and September of next year are the only weeks with no major releases next year is going to nuts. There is DC/WB's Aquaman and 7 Marvel related films (Black Panther, Avengers Infinity War, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Deadpool 2, New Mutants, X-Men Dark Phoenix, and Venom) Han Solo, 2 Pixar Films (Sequels to Wreck it Ralph and Incredibles), Marry Poppins, Predator, Jurassic World the Fallen Kingdom, Ready Player One, Pacific Rim 2, Horror Franchise Films (Halloween, Strangers Sequel, The Nun, an Insidious film), Mission Impossible 6, Bumblebee, Maze Runner Final Film, New Grinch Film, a Sonic the Hedge Hog Film, and various other potential franchise makers.

[Soubhagya]

I wrote this in another thread. The DC characters really needed solo films. I watched the Avengers trailer & got chills. I'd consider myself more of a DC fan. Superman & Batman are my favorites. However, I was more excited watching the Avengers trailer than at any point during the JL movie. People have watched each of the Marvel characters for ten years! Seeing them all come together has impact. It's not about which characters are better. It's about planning & execution. Having the Justice League after only a few movies and relying on it to introduce 3 new characters wasn't the best idea. I'm more invested in the Marvel heroes because I've watched them in quite a few adventures. I'd never have dreamed I'd be more invested in Marvel characters than DC characters.

A similar experience and a similar opinion. Avengers IW trailer is giving me goosebumps. I don't even read Marvel comics except for two books. And its like i know and love each of them. I loved the JL film. Much more then most people. But i can see how seeing people whom you know and love coming together is an entirely different experience then seeing people whom you know vaguely coming together.

I've said this once before but I felt the film should had been delayed till mid August I know it's a long time and going 3 comic-cons without the film would be bad but it would give them time to clean up the effects and get all the kinks out and I chose mid August because it's the earliest part of 2018 with no Major Franchise films basically the last two weeks of August and September of next year are the only weeks with no major releases next year is going to nuts. There is DC/WB's Aquaman and 7 Marvel related films (Black Panther, Avengers Infinity War, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Deadpool 2, New Mutants, X-Men Dark Phoenix, and Venom) Han Solo, 2 Pixar Films (Sequels to Wreck it Ralph and Incredibles), Marry Poppins, Predator, Jurassic World the Fallen Kingdom, Ready Player One, Pacific Rim 2, Horror Franchise Films (Halloween, Strangers Sequel, The Nun, an Insidious film), Mission Impossible 6, Bumblebee, Maze Runner Final Film, New Grinch Film, a Sonic the Hedge Hog Film, and various other potential franchise makers.

I don't know the exact dates. Could they have released in two or three weeks before Infinity War? I don't think it would have affected them much. By the third week the film generally earns most of its money at the BO.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Admitting defeat would be either giving up making superhero films or giving up efforts to keep the films interconnected-The DC Extended Universe. At this point both are possible. I won't be surprised if Aquaman is the last superhero film that WB makes. They wanted to focus on DC after Harry Potter was ending. Now they have Fantastic Beasts. They are becoming successful in other films. Why keep trying making superhero films if these are not working. JL can loose money. A film with Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman can loose money. What kind of crazy world are we living in! A Justice League film is going to earn less then Suicide Squad. Less then Deadpool. Its shocking.

Aquaman has been shot. So,this is sure. I am not sure about anything else. WW 2 is something i can bet on. But i am not 100 percent sure about it. Who knows they might pull the plug. Aquaman's failure might mean the last nail in the coffin. That's defeat.

There is another defeat. Give up the extended part of DCEU. No more interconnectedness. Just as Deadpool and X-Men. Each films are in separate universes of their own. That would be admitting defeat. If Aquaman succeeds and it is a standalone with no connection to DCEU as a whole, they may forego the DCEU altogether. They would make superhero films. But one can't hope to see Flash interacting with Green Lantern.

If they reboot i see it as 'we have lost the battle but not the war'. Focus on standalone films with only hints to the existence of a wider universe. If they succeed, DCEU is back on track. The train has derailed after JL. If JL can't earn 100 million in opening weekend it is something big. One can't handwaive it and go ahead just as planned.

Cast is the best thing we got from these films. But reboot is a good option to consider.

A full on reboot, replacing the actors and everything would seem like throwing in the towel and I honestly don't think audiences would respond well. They'd probably think WB and DC didn't even know what they were doing, especially if the "rebooted" movies came right after this line of movies. I could only see it working if they did it the same way the X-Men did it with Days of Future Past: keep the same cast, but change around only a few things about the continuity.

But, then again, the same effect would probably be achieved by simply not addressing some of the things that happened in the recent films. They could, for example, pretend that this Justice League was a one-time thing and in any potential sequel, say their original "team up" didn't really work out. There could even be some meta commentary in there. Maybe that way, we could finally get Cyborg back with the Titans and Martian Manhunter on the JLA again.

[FlashEarthOne]

Which again proves that Snyder is an excellent director. From my observation among the fans of Snyder's DCEU films some are apologists. They are unable to accept the fact that people in general don't like DC's films. That the films have faults. There's another section who actually love Snyder's DCEU films. And i can see the kind of love given by these fans. Art is by nature subjective. Such fans are in love with these films for real. And its really good. That shall be celebrated rather then derided.

It doesn't prove that at all, It proves that he has a very vocal minority following who are trying to make themselves out to be more numerous than they actually are.