1. #24391
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Berg is the only one being replaced. Johns, as far as I've heard, is still going to be the "comic guy" they go to for consultation.
    I think that’s pretty much been Johns’ role since he started producing films. He’s mainly the comic book consultant. I don’t know how much he has to do with the finished product. Berg was the deal maker of the duo. I’m sure he had a lot more interaction with the WB higher ups.

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    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Berg is the only one being replaced. Johns, as far as I've heard, is still going to be the "comic guy" they go to for consultation.
    Johns is getting demoted
    They are seeking a new head for DC films and since Johns and Berg were both co heads I would only assume he's getting positioned back in role as Chief creative

  3. #24393
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Johns is getting demoted
    They are seeking a new head for DC films and since Johns and Berg were both co heads I would only assume he's getting positioned back in role as Chief creative
    Do you have a source on this? Or a link to an office report?

  4. #24394
    Mighty Member Slowpokeking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Johns is getting demoted
    They are seeking a new head for DC films and since Johns and Berg were both co heads I would only assume he's getting positioned back in role as Chief creative
    NO, they got to let Johns take charge, this guy knew what's good and bad.

  5. #24395
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Do you have a source on this? Or a link to an office report?
    It's in the Variety article, linked here. They're not explicit about a demotion but they do say he will not be a producer on upcoming DCU movies (as he had been) and he no longer seems to occupy the Kevin Feige-style role that resulted in a horrible friend breakup between him and DC president Diane Nelson when it was announced on bleeding cool he'd been promoted to the head of DC Films and no longer reported to Nelson. As I predicted in another "Geoff Johns as head of DC films style" thread, he has paid for Justice League even though he didn't have the same level of involvement he did with Wonder Woman. WB is talking about absorbing DC Films into WB offices, taking away any creative freedom Johns/Berg once had and he is being moved to an advisory capacity. It might take reading both of these articles to understand Johns' demotion but he has most certainly been demoted. If he's not going to be guiding the films in the 'DC theatrical' offices (and he isn't now) I'd much rather have him back writing comics full-time for them to base the movies on (though I recognize GL was that and really didn't work out).

    Variety: http://variety.com/2017/film/news/dc...ue-1202632214/

    EXTREMELY different from his position as recently as late October:

    bleedingcool: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/10...n-warner-bros/

    Hope that helps.

  6. #24396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Johns is getting demoted
    They are seeking a new head for DC films and since Johns and Berg were both co heads I would only assume he's getting positioned back in role as Chief creative
    I haven't heard anything of them seeking a new head of DC Films. What I have heard actually is that they are considering absorbing DC Films into Warner Bros. proper.

  7. #24397
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    I don't know if this has been posted. This thread is a beast and difficult to keep up with. But if it hasn't been posted it's big news and surprising news:

    https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/dceu-...azil-comic-con

    Here's the essence though there's more at the link above:

    Those sweating the Justice League movie might have interfered with the DCEU movie slate can worry no more.

    Warner Bros. has confirmed the DCEU movie lineup at this weekend's Brazil Comic-Con, which is the same eight movies announced at this Summer's San Diego Comic-Con; so we see no apparent changes have been made.

    At the Brazil Comic-Con, WB mentioned the following movies are in works for:

    Shazam (in pre-production, directed by David F. Sandberg, starring Zachary Levi; looking like an April 2019 release date)
    Wonder Woman II (directed by Patty Jenkins, starring Gal Gadot, for a November 1, 2019 release date)
    Flashpoint
    The Batman (being directed by Matt Reeves)
    Suicide Squad 2
    Batgirl (being written, produced and directed by Joss Whedon)
    Justice League Dark
    Green Lantern Corps
    I find this astounding. So much so that I wonder if the report is just wrong. It is from a reputable site for sure. I just feel like maybe someone spoke for WB that shouldn't have. That's how unbelievable I find it that ALL of the above movies are truly still being made.

  8. #24398
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    I guess that probably has been posted since now I'm seeing it on lots of comic book movie sites. Apparently it's accurate. Sorry if I'm late to the party with that post though.

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    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I haven't heard anything of them seeking a new head of DC Films. What I have heard actually is that they are considering absorbing DC Films into Warner Bros. proper.
    I didn't even know if there was any kind of real head of the DC Films. It seemed like kind of ambiguous whether it was Johns spearheading anything or someone else.

    The DCEU doesn't really have a Kevin Feige yet.

  10. #24400
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Really annoyed they’re still going with Flashpoint. It’s pretty much everything that people have disliked about the DCEU. Very dark story, a massive crossover, and it will probably require a huge budget. They’re going to need a fantastic creative team to make this work. .
    The bolding above is my feeling about every one of these films. WB has so much riding on them working out and with Snyder no longer in charge, which we know now they were VERY resistant to after BvS, which I imagine had a lot to do with the Frankensteining of Justice League, hopefully they have also learned the lesson to trust their directors and GTF out of the way. I wasn't happy with Snyder's DC movies. That's well known here by now (though I have a personal update on that topic to come in another post, sooner than later) but the WORST thing is to hire an artist and not let him do his job. If you're going to trust someone, you freaking trust them. You don't try to micromanage because it has never, to the best of my knowledge, improved a film sufficiently to make it a success in maybe all of film history. It never works to do that.

    And it does seem like once Snyder is gone they'll be willing to do that. The now infamous Variety article made it pretty plain that WB's main problem was with Snyder which makes sense of the fact that they meddled so much in his movies but didn't meddle at all with, say, Patty Jenkins. I think the freakout over Suicide Squad that led to unsuccessful meddling was all about them freaking out about the critical failure of BvS. I think it shocked the heck out of them and, given they agreed to let him continue with JL after it (so as not to start over with so much spent on pre-production - the costly error of "throwing good money after bad"), they ought to have let him make his movie.

    I'm a theatre director by trade as many know here by now because I've said it a lot to make various points about my POV but in theatre the auteur is the playwright, the writer. In film the auteur is the director. And if you hire an auteur director with a strong POV it never works to try to "manage" that. You can't do it effectively in theatre either but my point is that it's so much more true in film than in, for example, theatre.

    At this point Snyder's just gone and there's no use in rehashing that. It's been done to death from all possible points of view. I just hope that WB has learned to get out of the way of their directors. I bolded the section of the post I quoted because that's it. That's the bottom line. Great creators make great movies (and plays and comics and all art). Period. Studio executives only know how to freak out about the latest thing that happened and interfere or opt to trust the directors they hire.

    If they needed to mess with Snyder's JL, they just should have fired him and ate the money and started over. What they did instead hurt everyone involved. I deeply hope they've learned this one critical lesson. It will be the difference between us having good and successful DC movies and not having them.

  11. #24401
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    After all the dust has settled and having been through so many emotions re: Justice League and DCEU, I decided recently to pretend there had never been a DCEU, to clear my brain of what had happened, and watch Zack Snyder's MoS and BvS with absolutely NO expectations. And I did so trying VERY hard to just at least appreciate that there were movies out there about Superman and about Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, even if they had really disappointed me at the time.

    By doing that, and it was almost like a Zen practice to clear my mind of all prior thoughts on the movies to watch them freshly in hopes of just appreciating they exist, now that we are confronting a world where DC Films are in big trouble and there's no guarantee they'll continue to happen.

    And you know what? Superman DID smile in Man of Steel. He smiled a lot during it. I'd completely forgotten because I didn't respond to what I felt was unnecessary and unearned seriousness. Not because I didn't want serious movies: I DO. But because it had felt unearned. Watching it freshly with all the benefit of hindsight I don't even know how to step out of this closet but...

    I really liked it.

    I'd loathed it but by approaching it with zero expectations and trying to just appreciate what Snyder was trying to do on his terms and not mine, no matter how much I might have felt certain characters were very out of character according to how we've always known them in the comics and all other media. I gave all that up to see how he did at what he was trying to do. I decided to see anew, to confirm or its opposite, that I actually hated these movies and that they were irredeemable, and by doing so I became a convert. Like a total convert. Like a breaking out into a smile the first time bones started poking out of Doomsday convert. And I've always hated Doomsday, in the comics, in animation, just everywhere. I find him a worthless character but I geeked out.

    Because after MoS I watched the extended BvS for a third time, trying again, but trying differently, meeting it on its level, and I really surprised myself with how much I enjoyed each of those two movies I've been so upset over and for years.

    I hope we get extended Snyder AND extended theatrical/Whedon Justice League whenever they release whatever they're going to release. I want all of it. I'm ready to watch a Justice League that I might otherwise have hated by giving myself over to his vision. Same for Whedon.

    I'm very disappointed over the damage done by those three movies but I've learned to appreciate them. It began as a thought experiment but I'm converted.

    I stand by my earlier criticisms of both films, ALL of them. But I've also found a way to really appreciate them and I'm glad I made the extra effort.

  12. #24402
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I didn't even know if there was any kind of real head of the DC Films. It seemed like kind of ambiguous whether it was Johns spearheading anything or someone else.

    The DCEU doesn't really have a Kevin Feige yet.
    Maybe worthwhile to check out the bleedingcool article from late October I posted above. Even if you don't like or believe BC as a source, Diane Nelson's social media stuff (quoted in the article) was proof that Johns had indeed been promoted, elevated above her, and that she felt very betrayed. I think you have to have that part of the puzzle to realize the nature of the demotion because the promotion that so upset Diane Nelson wasn't widely reported.

  13. #24403
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    After all the dust has settled and having been through so many emotions re: Justice League and DCEU, I decided recently to pretend there had never been a DCEU, to clear my brain of what had happened, and watch Zack Snyder's MoS and BvS with absolutely NO expectations. And I did so trying VERY hard to just at least appreciate that there were movies out there about Superman and about Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, even if they had really disappointed me at the time.

    By doing that, and it was almost like a Zen practice to clear my mind of all prior thoughts on the movies to watch them freshly in hopes of just appreciating they exist, now that we are confronting a world where DC Films are in big trouble and there's no guarantee they'll continue to happen.

    And you know what? Superman DID smile in Man of Steel. He smiled a lot during it. I'd completely forgotten because I didn't respond to what I felt was unnecessary and unearned seriousness. Not because I didn't want serious movies: I DO. But because it had felt unearned. Watching it freshly with all the benefit of hindsight I don't even know how to step out of this closet but...

    I really liked it.

    I'd loathed it but by approaching it with zero expectations and trying to just appreciate what Snyder was trying to do on his terms and not mine, no matter how much I might have felt certain characters were very out of character according to how we've always known them in the comics and all other media. I gave all that up to see how he did at what he was trying to do. I decided to see anew, to confirm or its opposite, that I actually hated these movies and that they were irredeemable, and by doing so I became a convert. Like a total convert. Like a breaking out into a smile the first time bones started poking out of Doomsday convert. And I've always hated Doomsday, in the comics, in animation, just everywhere. I find him a worthless character but I geeked out.

    Because after MoS I watched the extended BvS for a third time, trying again, but trying differently, meeting it on its level, and I really surprised myself with how much I enjoyed each of those two movies I've been so upset over and for years.

    I hope we get extended Snyder AND extended theatrical/Whedon Justice League whenever they release whatever they're going to release. I want all of it. I'm ready to watch a Justice League that I might otherwise have hated by giving myself over to his vision. Same for Whedon.

    I'm very disappointed over the damage done by those three movies but I've learned to appreciate them. It began as a thought experiment but I'm converted.

    I stand by my earlier criticisms of both films, ALL of them. But I've also found a way to really appreciate them and I'm glad I made the extra effort.
    I wasn't totally onboard with MAN OF STEEL until my second or third viewing, and especially after I watched the movie on Blu Ray and was able to take time to process what I was seeing.

    On the other hand, I was onboard with BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE right away. Some of that movie disturbed me, but being disturbed isn't necessarily always a bad thing.

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  14. #24404
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I don't know if this has been posted. This thread is a beast and difficult to keep up with. But if it hasn't been posted it's big news and surprising news:

    https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/dceu-...azil-comic-con

    Here's the essence though there's more at the link above:



    I find this astounding. So much so that I wonder if the report is just wrong. It is from a reputable site for sure. I just feel like maybe someone spoke for WB that shouldn't have. That's how unbelievable I find it that ALL of the above movies are truly still being made.
    I don't believe it. Its possible that they just gave the same slate as the same Comic Con a few months ago just to show that everything is fine. No studio continues as planned after a disaster in this level. (JL is going to earn less then Dr. Strange. I am trying to wrap my head around this).

    It maybe a placeholder slate before big changes. Or they are actually going ahead. According to my opinion they shall reboot. Four out of five divisive films would be a poor foundation. A couple of more divisive films could end the DCEU. But i guess if they are doing so try to make good films. Don't mess with the director's work. And hope everything turns out fine.

  15. #24405
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    After all the dust has settled and having been through so many emotions re: Justice League and DCEU, I decided recently to pretend there had never been a DCEU, to clear my brain of what had happened, and watch Zack Snyder's MoS and BvS with absolutely NO expectations. And I did so trying VERY hard to just at least appreciate that there were movies out there about Superman and about Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, even if they had really disappointed me at the time.

    By doing that, and it was almost like a Zen practice to clear my mind of all prior thoughts on the movies to watch them freshly in hopes of just appreciating they exist, now that we are confronting a world where DC Films are in big trouble and there's no guarantee they'll continue to happen.

    And you know what? Superman DID smile in Man of Steel. He smiled a lot during it. I'd completely forgotten because I didn't respond to what I felt was unnecessary and unearned seriousness. Not because I didn't want serious movies: I DO. But because it had felt unearned. Watching it freshly with all the benefit of hindsight I don't even know how to step out of this closet but...

    I really liked it.

    I'd loathed it but by approaching it with zero expectations and trying to just appreciate what Snyder was trying to do on his terms and not mine, no matter how much I might have felt certain characters were very out of character according to how we've always known them in the comics and all other media. I gave all that up to see how he did at what he was trying to do. I decided to see anew, to confirm or its opposite, that I actually hated these movies and that they were irredeemable, and by doing so I became a convert. Like a total convert. Like a breaking out into a smile the first time bones started poking out of Doomsday convert. And I've always hated Doomsday, in the comics, in animation, just everywhere. I find him a worthless character but I geeked out.

    Because after MoS I watched the extended BvS for a third time, trying again, but trying differently, meeting it on its level, and I really surprised myself with how much I enjoyed each of those two movies I've been so upset over and for years.

    I hope we get extended Snyder AND extended theatrical/Whedon Justice League whenever they release whatever they're going to release. I want all of it. I'm ready to watch a Justice League that I might otherwise have hated by giving myself over to his vision. Same for Whedon.

    I'm very disappointed over the damage done by those three movies but I've learned to appreciate them. It began as a thought experiment but I'm converted.

    I stand by my earlier criticisms of both films, ALL of them. But I've also found a way to really appreciate them and I'm glad I made the extra effort.
    I am happy to hear it. MoS is a good film. It has problems but it is unnecessarily hated by fans. I like it. Anyone can see that watching it more number of times improves the experience.

    BvS. Is not a good film. But it has some good stuff. I am more mixed here. But it is also hated much more then it deserves to be.

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