DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Serpico Jones]

Justin Kroll from Variety says a huge announcement is coming later today. Could be DC related.

[Jokerz79]

They fit the mold because the whole formula is based on the same tone and sense of humor from the earlier films to keep fans from the beginning coming back with no real deviation or new steps forward.

That's cool that you're not a Snyder fan but it wasn't my point. My point is that movies like Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are HIS movies with his vision and his art. It's not about whether you like it or not it's about the mere concept of a superhero universe that is driven by filmmakers and not studio oversight. It is a filmmaker led universe. The reason so many filmmakers have parted ways with the DCEU is because the direction of these films are solely up to them and the writers and a lot of the time not everyone will agree. But some blog will come along and claim that Warner Bros is putting their fist down and trying to control the operation when that isn't the case at all. It's a free and open ended universe with the idea that filmmakers have complete freedom and control over the story and the characters. Like I said, Justice League was a tragic exception and hopefully one that will not be made again.

Also cool that you liked the most recent Marvel movies. Again, not my point.

Whatever you like or dislike is of no concern to me. The Marvel formula has clearly worked because millions of people eat it up and will continue to for years. The whole point of this conversation was me saying I don't want DC properties in the hands of Disney because I don't like what they've done with the MCU. Emphasis on I . As in me. You're over here talking about Zack Snyder and which one is better. That wasn't what I was talking about at all. I literally could not care less about your interests or opinions on certain directors. No offense.

You keep talking about how the DCEU films are art and their filmmakers are allowed to create their art and vision unlike the Marvel movies which are simply formulaic. But you're wrong the Guardians are very much James Gunn's vision and art the awesome mix tape was his idea, taserface was his idea, he gave Lloyd Kaufman a cameo same with Taiki Waikiki and Thor Ragnarok. Even the Avengers films have a lot of Whedon in them and it's very obvious when comparing the Avengers in Civil War. Yet for all this talk about Snyder's vision the most widely seen version of BvS was the theatrical cut which was butchered by the studio so they could get a shorty run time for more viewings which ironically no one came back for once seeing their hack job and Justice League is clearly not his vision or why want a director's cut? Story wise the DCEU is no more ground breaking than the MCU as for artist vision Marvel and Disney have allowed their directors to put their own stamps onto the properties and unlike WB Disney actually showed the Directors visions for the films in theaters.

[Elmo]

You keep talking about how the DCEU films are art and their filmmakers are allowed to create their art and vision unlike the Marvel movies which are simply formulaic. But you're wrong the Guardians are very much James Gunn's vision and art the awesome mix tape was his idea, taserface was his idea, he gave Lloyd Kaufman a cameo same with Taiki Waikiki and Thor Ragnarok. Even the Avengers films have a lot of Whedon in them and it's very obvious when comparing the Avengers in Civil War. Yet for all this talk about Snyder's vision the most widely seen version of BvS was the theatrical cut which was butchered by the studio so they could get a shorty run time for more viewings which ironically no one came back for once seeing their hack job and Justice League is clearly not his vision or why want a director's cut? Story wise the DCEU is no more ground breaking than the MCU as for artist vision Marvel and Disney have allowed their directors to put their own stamps onto the properties and unlike WB Disney actually showed the Directors visions for the films in theaters.

Just because a director adds their own quirks and ideas to a film doesn't mean the movies as a whole are not formulaic. I never said the movies aren't their own or that the DCEU films are art. I said WB respects the art of filmmaking by having a shared universe that is led by filmmakers and not a studio. I also never brought up the story and it was Snyder himself along with the studio who made the cuts for the theatrical relase to BvS. Despite issues with the editing his vision came across just fine in the film. If you liked it or not that's your own opinion and once again, was never the discussion.

I also never claimed it was groundbreaking or better than the MCU. I said I dislike the MCU because they are formulaic and made to fit a Hollywoodized blockbuster mold, which is COMPLETELY fine if you enjoy that, I just do not enjoy it. I don't like most of the DCEU films. I support the DCEU because the premise around it is a filmmaker driven universe. The fact that I have to keep bringing this up and you still cannot wrap your head around it is getting ridiculous at this point.

[Jokerz79]

Just because a director adds their own quirks and ideas to a film doesn't mean the movies as a whole are not formulaic. I never said the movies aren't their own or that the DCEU films are art. I said WB respects the art of filmmaking by having a shared universe that is led by filmmakers and not a studio. I also never brought up the story and it was Snyder himself along with the studio who made the cuts for the theatrical relase to BvS. Despite issues with the editing his vision came across just fine in the film. If you liked it or not that's your own opinion and once again, was never the discussion.

I also never claimed it was groundbreaking or better than the MCU. I said I dislike the MCU because they are formulaic and made to fit a Hollywoodized blockbuster mold, which is COMPLETELY fine if you enjoy that, I just do not enjoy it. I don't like most of the DCEU films. I support the DCEU because the premise around it is a filmmaker driven universe. The fact that I have to keep bringing this up and you still cannot wrap your head around it is getting ridiculous at this point.

You said the Snyder's DCEU films are his movies, his vision, his ART. So yes you called the films art if it's his art it's art. Also how can a studio be filmmaker driven when they constantly mess with the filmmakers films?

[Elmo]

You said the Snyder's DCEU films are his movies, his vision, his ART. So yes you called the films art if it's his art it's art. Also how can a studio be filmmaker driven when they constantly mess with the filmmakers films?

Filmmaking in itself is art. By that definition, Zack Snyder, being a filmmaker, is an artist. When an artist has his own project that he is fully committed to and completely in control of, that art belongs to him. So it is literally HIS art.

There are literally two instances where WB "messed" with the films-- Suicide Squad and Justice League, so "constantly" is an incorrect word to use. Both of those films turned out awful. In any case the premise always remained the same and despite the cut of Suicide Squad not being the one Ayer intended to release, it was still his movie and unique; nothing like the other films in the DCEU but still fitting in that universe. However, it was a bad movie.

The DCEU continues to be filmmaker driven, giving filmmakers the option of which film they should choose to direct and letting them have control, opening up new opportunities for writers and new filmmakers.

[Colossus1980]

People always like to throw out that world formulaic as if there's a guarantee to make a movie a box office success. If it was true every studio would do this and ensure ongoing franchises all the time. 2017 saw a lot of franchises crash and burn. Where was the formula to ensure their success?

[Elmo]

People always like to throw out that world formulaic as if there's a guarantee to make a movie a box office success. If it was true every studio would do this and ensure ongoing franchises all the time. 2017 saw a lot of franchises crash and burn. Where was the formula to ensure their success?

A formula doesn't mean success. Disney just happens to have one that has been wildly successful and that's why they haven't released a film deviating from that formula, because it works and they don't want to take the risk despite taking risks with certain characters in the past.

I was just recently talking in another thread about Transformers; those films are also formulaic but their formula hasn't been successful given how they won't even have an engaging storyline or interesting characters and their main goal (selling toys) failed dramatically from the very start.

[Myskin]

Quite frankly, DC hasn't made a creator-driven movie since the Nolan trilogy. And even THAT one happened because of very peculiar circumstances.

If a cinema lover is looking for creator-driven movies, he/she shouldn't look at superhero movies in general. Well, he/she shouldn't look at Hollywood blockbusters at all.

[Carabas]

These are exactly my views. No matter what anyone says Zack Snyder's films (with Justice League as an exception) are distinctly his with his vision.

They sort of are. This is not a good thing. Although Snyder's vision did not include Man Of Steel being part of a DCEU.

That in itself shows how much WB cares about the art of filmmaking.

No, it does not. Letting a hack make crappy movies does prove you care.

[Elmo]

They sort of are. This is not a good thing. Although Snyder's vision did not include Man Of Steel being part of a DCEU.

No, it does not. Letting a hack make crappy movies does prove you care.

That's not true. Snyder literally created and mapped out the entire DCEU himself. But that's not the point.

Snyder being a "hack" or the movies being "crappy" are your opinion and were never a part of the discussion. The fact that you people STILL aren't understanding what the whole topic was about in the first place is utterly dumbfounding to me.

[Elmo]

Quite frankly, DC hasn't made a creator-driven movie since the Nolan trilogy. And even THAT one happened because of very peculiar circumstances.

If a cinema lover is looking for creator-driven movies, he/she shouldn't look at superhero movies in general. Well, he/she shouldn't look at Hollywood blockbusters at all.

I said that I respect a superhero universe that is filmmaker driven. I'm not "looking" for creator-driven movies and simply choosing the DCEU. I merely explained why I support the DCEU over the MCU. I didn't make this up. This is what Charles Roven, Geoff Johns, and countless others have been continuously saying the DCEU is about. That is WHY I chose to support it.

I'm trying my hardest to be civil here, I really am. But people still aren't grasping what this conversation was even about in the first place and are severely misinterpreting my own views on the DCEU and superhero films in general.

[Jokerz79]

Filmmaking in itself is art. By that definition, Zack Snyder, being a filmmaker, is an artist. When an artist has his own project that he is fully committed to and completely in control of, that art belongs to him. So it is literally HIS art.

There are literally two instances where WB "messed" with the films-- Suicide Squad and Justice League, so "constantly" is an incorrect word to use. Both of those films turned out awful. In any case the premise always remained the same and despite the cut of Suicide Squad not being the one Ayer intended to release, it was still his movie and unique; nothing like the other films in the DCEU but still fitting in that universe. However, it was a bad movie.

The DCEU continues to be filmmaker driven, giving filmmakers the option of which film they should choose to direct and letting them have control, opening up new opportunities for writers and new filmmakers.

Don't try to explain art to me when you keep changing your definition every other post because two post ago you said this "I never said the movies aren't their own or that the DCEU films are art." The only reason I brought up art stuff was because you call the Snyder films art because he gets to create his visions while ignoring it seems that the MCU did the same with their directors.

Also there are 3 not 2 3 times WB ordered editing changes to films first time was BvS they ordered it cut down for time because they wanted to be able to have more viewings in theaters. It's why we have a Theatrical Cut and a Ultimate Cut. Then Suicide Squad was changed by a trailer house for god sake, and last the Frankenstein which is Justice League. That's 3 out of 5 films so yeah constantly kind of fits to me when since they started meddling they've left only one film Wonder Woman alone.

[Myskin]

I said that I respect a superhero universe that is filmmaker driven. I'm not "looking" for creator-driven movies and simply choosing the DCEU. I merely explained why I support the DCEU over the MCU. I didn't make this up. This is what Charles Roven, Geoff Johns, and countless others have been continuously saying the DCEU is about. That is WHY I chose to support it.

Ok. They said it. So what? I mean, even if they said it, they didn't make them. And when they made them (I guess that MOS can be included in the "creator-driven" category, even if I am not 100% sure about that), the movies were divisive at best. Not because they were particularly complex and misunderstood masterpieces, but just because they were influenced by some very bizarre and divisive choices which nobody really knows why they were put in the movies in the very first place.

[Carabas]

Snyder being a "hack" or the movies being "crappy" are your opinion and were never a part of the discussion. The fact that you people STILL aren't understanding what the whole topic was about in the first place is utterly dumbfounding to me.

And the MCU being formulaic is your subjective opinion, which is not universally shared.

Honestly, I think you have some Dunning–Kruger stuff going on here if you really think the cut-to-shreds releases of Man Of steel and Dawn Of Justice are Snyders honest to god real vision and intent. Or that Suicide Squad even vaguely resembles the movie Ayer wanted to make.

[Elmo]

Ok. They said it. So what? I mean, even if they said it, they didn't make them. And when they made them (I guess that MOS can be included in the "creator-driven" category, even if I am not 100% sure about that), the movies were divisive at best. Not because they were particularly complex and misunderstood masterpieces, but just because they were influenced by some very bizarre and divisive choices which nobody really knows why they were put in the movies in the very first place.

What is your point exactly and what relevance does it have in this discussion?

I said I like the premise of the DCEU over the MCU. And from what I have seen aside from two instances, the DCEU has remained largely creator-driven and continues to do that even today with the development of the Flashpoint film.

I never said they were masterpieces or that they were or were not divisive.

I said that I like the premise of a filmmaker-led superhero universe and that I dislike Disney and the MCU.

THAT, right there, is ALL I said. The second everyone starts realizing that and stops putting words in my mouth, I'll begin to take you seriously.