DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Well, if Cavill must play Superman like he did in JL, I sure as hell won't come out to see his movies. His character was, very sadly, detrimental to the JL, undermining all the other heroes, either because Whedon/Warner didn't know what to do with Superman in a team up, or, worse, to appease the very vocal peoples clamoring for a recreation of Superman the movie in the DCEU. That way, they have pleased no one, and it's a poor preview of what they appear to have in mind; i.e. a boring and very bland character saving the day, smiling and cracking jokes at all time, making the reste of the League useless in the movies. It was a terrible move, and hopefully, JL's depiction of Superman will be left to rot in the future movie(s?) he'll have.

Point. Movie stripped all the interesting things that Superman had going for him in MoS/BvS. Sad thing what we got in JL is that is what a lot people wanted for their DCEU Superman form the start...

[SiegePerilous02]

There is a podcast I listen too called Geek History Lesson recently they did an episode on Silver Age Superman, and the hosts bring up an interesting point that most on-screen Superman adaptations have a Silver Age feel to them. They argue Man of Steel is more Golden Age Superman. Many people said that was not Superman I would argue is Superman but a golden age version that we don't often see anymore. I would urge anyone interested to watch that Podcast the host is a huge Superman fan.

I really didn't see any Golden Age Superman except for the below example from Gemini. New 52 Superman is Golden Age like; this was more like Byrne put through a Frank Miller filter.

I see some golden age superman in Man of Steel at least when he messed up that guys truck for harassing that woman server.

Well, if Cavill must play Superman like he did in JL, I sure as hell won't come out to see his movies. His character was, very sadly, detrimental to the JL, undermining all the other heroes, either because Whedon/Warner didn't know what to do with Superman in a team up, or, worse, to appease the very vocal peoples clamoring for a recreation of Superman the movie in the DCEU. That way, they have pleased no one, and it's a poor preview of what they appear to have in mind; i.e. a boring and very bland character saving the day, smiling and cracking jokes at all time, making the reste of the League useless in the movies. It was a terrible move, and hopefully, JL's depiction of Superman will be left to rot in the future movie(s?) he'll have.

Cavill playing Superman like he did in JL is either what they should have done from the beginning, or built towards in a more natural way in a solo film. The fact that the portrayal of DCEU Superman up until now has not been well received by the majority but this was one of the few well received elements of an otherwise terrible movie (CGI face memes aside) says it all. They should move on from the previous films and run with this from now on, just give it to a more competent director and leave said director the hell alone in the editing room. NOT pursuing this with an actor who is still well liked and who doesn't want to leave and is actually campaigning to get a new film made with a director who is willing would be one of the dumbest moves they can make.

They can, and have, portray Superman exactly like this and not undermine the rest of the JL. The best comics usually have an easy time doing it, there is no reason to think they can't because JL sucked. And of the assembled League members, only Diana was a threat to him in any way and how much she got nerfed is up for debate.

[Korath]

Aquaman is more than able to hold his own against Superman, especially with his trident in comics. Flash is also powerful enough to be a danger for the Man of Steel. None of this was displayed in the movie. Kal-El crushed the whole JL; dealt with Steppenwolf as if he was a simple child bothering other kids and ruined Barry's whole arc toward heroism in the movie with this incredibly stupid "carrying a building's" scene. Superman was a burden for the movie, because it dragged its feet and failed to portray the characters as competent because it was decided that they couldn't hold their own against one New God without Superman, which is stupid. Darkseid require the whole League to be dealt with, but Steppenwolf isn't so powerful than Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Flash and Cyborg, with some tactical help from Batman, couldn't handle him.

And if you think that audiences actually want to see a full movie of this kind of Superman, I think you are in the wrong. Superman Return tried to channel this and it failed, and i'm feeling quite certain that a movie based on what we saw of Superman in JL would fail too, if only because such a character possess nothing inspiring or interesting to hook the attention. Sure, he can have pretty great action scenes and what not. But I find it a little sad that the "style over substance" has been thrown at Snyder for his two DCEU movies and yet it's what fans of "iconic" Superman wants for the character's future in the silver screen : style over any kind of substance, stories of Superman saving cats in trees and generally displaying a lack of flaws or weaknesses which doesn't make him endearing but terribly land and unidimensional.

[SiegePerilous02]

Aquaman is more than able to hold his own against Superman, especially with his trident in comics. Flash is also powerful enough to be a danger for the Man of Steel. None of this was displayed in the movie. Kal-El crushed the whole JL; dealt with Steppenwolf as if he was a simple child bothering other kids and ruined Barry's whole arc toward heroism in the movie with this incredibly stupid "carrying a building's" scene. Superman was a burden for the movie, because it dragged its feet and failed to portray the characters as competent because it was decided that they couldn't hold their own against one New God without Superman, which is stupid. Darkseid require the whole League to be dealt with, but Steppenwolf isn't so powerful than Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Flash and Cyborg, with some tactical help from Batman, couldn't handle him.

Superman has had to be powered down over the years in order for others like Aquaman to catch up to him. And even then, there is no popular perception among the casuals that Aquaman is in anyway a threat to Superman. They are not going to judge Aquaman harshly for losing because they don't expect him to win, and will turn out for his movie if it is good. It's also not like he knows what to expect when facing a Kryptonian.

That applies to Barry as well, a fully experienced Barry WOULD be a threat to Superman, but he's barely experienced with his powers in this. In his own words, he pushes people and runs away.

And if you think that audiences actually want to see a full movie of this kind of Superman, I think you are in the wrong. Superman Return tried to channel this and it failed, and i'm feeling quite certain that a movie based on what we saw of Superman in JL would fail too, if only because such a character possess nothing inspiring or interesting to hook the attention. Sure, he can have pretty great action scenes and what not. But I find it a little sad that the "style over substance" has been thrown at Snyder for his two DCEU movies and yet it's what fans of "iconic" Superman wants for the character's future in the silver screen : style over any kind of substance, stories of Superman saving cats in trees and generally displaying a lack of flaws or weaknesses which doesn't make him endearing but terribly land and unidimensional.

Superman Returns didn't do well because it was an unremarkable movie that didn't tread any new ground. Looking at the poor reception of DCEU Superman so far, they don't want that either. They just want a good movie.

That seems like a strawman argument, one that I have admittedly used in the past as well in defending DCEU Superman, but really after JL I'm out of patience. The journey wasn't worth it. Those arguing for a more classic, less dour Superman are not asking for lack of substance. It's debatable if the movies as they are even have substance as a whole package. The stories about the Superman you don't like have PLENTY of substance, they just either don't do much for you are your are just flat out not interested in engaging with it.

[RepHope]

You guys know Snyder’s the one who filmed the majority of that idiotic fight scene with Supes and the League right? He’s the one who had the brilliant idea to make the League look like chumps. I’m positive he had Supes melting people with his heat vision when he first returned because that’s the edgy crap he loves. Why was that scene not given to Steppenwolf? It would’ve helped establish him as a major threat.

But this goes back to the major flaw in Snyder’s JL: He didn’t bother to build the others up before throwing them all together. When people go to see a JL movie they want to see the characters at their peak, fighting together. Instead Snyder tried to cram everyone’s origin stories into a movie about the League coming together, while at the same time bringing Superman back. Even a good storyteller would’ve struggled with all that, and Snyder is not a good storyteller. It’s the same damn mistake he made in BvS, and why he should’ve been let go before filming even started. Now we wait to see if this universe can be salvaged.

[Korath]

I fail to see how this scene could be Snyder when the whole choreography smells of Whedon. Do you have any proof that it is Snyder who directed it, because it is most definitively not one of those, who were epic and very obvious in the movie (the Steppenwolf vs Amazon chase, for instance). And Snyder is a great storyteller, BvS is definitive proof of that, being so packed with great characterizations, evolutions, snippets explaining why every major player thought and acted as they did... that general audience failed to notice because it has become used to everything being spoonfed or even absent in major blockbuster is not on Zack Snyder, it's on the peoples for not making the minimum of efforts required to understand what was offered to them. Even in the theatrical cut.

[Agent Z]

You guys know Snyder’s the one who filmed the majority of that idiotic fight scene with Supes and the League right? He’s the one who had the brilliant idea to make the League look like chumps. I’m positive he had Supes melting people with his heat vision when he first returned because that’s the edgy crap he loves. Why was that scene not given to Steppenwolf? It would’ve helped establish him as a major threat.

But this goes back to the major flaw in Snyder’s JL: He didn’t bother to build the others up before throwing them all together. When people go to see a JL movie they want to see the characters at their peak, fighting together. Instead Snyder tried to cram everyone’s origin stories into a movie about the League coming together, while at the same time bringing Superman back. Even a good storyteller would’ve struggled with all that, and Snyder is not a good storyteller. It’s the same damn mistake he made in BvS, and why he should’ve been let go before filming even started. Now we wait to see if this universe can be salvaged.

Snyder was going to have WW kill Steppenwolf according to some reports. He also did not throw the other members under the bus to make Superman look better in BvS. Where did you hear he directed the fight with the League? And proof he would have had Superman melting people? You can hate the guy all you like but how about avoid accusing him of crap you have no proof for.


Hell moments ago, you were complaining Snyder made Superman too weak. Now you think he'd go out of his way to dial up his power to make everyone else irrelevant? If anything, Snyder's been consistent at not making everyone else look pathetic so Superman can look better even with the military in MoS.

[RepHope]

Snyder was going to have WW kill Steppenwolf according to some reports. He also did not throw the other members under the bus to make Superman look better in BvS. Where did you hear he directed the fight with the League? And proof he would have had Superman melting people? You can hate the guy all you like but how about avoid accusing him of crap you have no proof for.

In one of the earlier trailers Cyborg saves a cop from a burning car. I’m going to guess that was from Snyder’s Ressurection scene. I’m positive the level of destruction Snyder had was much, MUCH greater than what we evantually got. They reshot that scene after all because of how dark and edgy Snyder’s initial movie was.

[Agent Z]

In one of the earlier trailers Cyborg saves a cop from a burning truck. I’m positive the level of destruction Snyder had was much, MUCH greater than what we evantually got. They reshot that scene after all because of how dark and edgy Snyder’s initial movie was.

Again, were is the proof you have of this? What does Cyborg saving a cop from a burning truck have to do with this? Wouldn't that be evidence Snyder was toning down the destruction since apparently the heroes didn't save anyone in his previous movies?

Hell, has it even been confirmed just how dark the initial movie was? We haven't seen the original cut and given how overdone the humor was in JL, I'm willing to bet it wasn't even that dark but WB panicked as usual.

[Korath]

In one of the earlier trailers Cyborg saves a cop from a burning car. I’m going to guess that was from Snyder’s Ressurection scene. I’m positive the level of destruction Snyder had was much, MUCH greater than what we evantually got. They reshot that scene after all because of how dark and edgy Snyder’s initial movie was.

If Cyborg had had the time to deal with saving a cop while saving Superman, it's pretty clear that Supes wouldn't have been trashing the League so much that all hands would have to be on deck to deal with it. Plus, it could have been the result of Steppenwolf actually attacking from the heart of a city, instead of very conveniently attacking some sort of closed nuclear central in Russia, even such a poor choice of location could be on Snyder, considering the early trailers.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Btw, Snyder filmed the Superman vs JL fight, you can see him in the bts of the scene...

[RepHope]

Again, were is the proof you have of this? What does Cyborg saving a cop from a burning truck have to do with this? Wouldn't that be evidence Snyder was toning down the destruction since apparently the heroes didn't save anyone in his previous movies?

Hell, has it even been confirmed just how dark the initial movie was? We haven't seen the original cut and given how overdone the humor was in JL, I'm willing to bet it wasn't even that dark but WB panicked as usual.

How do you know his movie would’ve been better than Whedon’s? He certainly doesn’t have a better average critical score or commercial sales rate to back up that claim, yet Snyder stans scream it from the mountaintops. I’m willing to bet his “Cut” would’ve bombed harder than Whedon’s.

[Agent Z]

How do you know his movie would’ve been better than Whedon’s? He certainly doesn’t have a better average critical score or commercial sales rate to back up that claim, yet Snyder stans scream it from the mountaintops. I’m willing to bet his “Cut” would’ve bombed harder than Whedon’s.

I never said it would have been better than Whedon's. I just said it wouldn't have been as dark as you claim.

But if you want to blame everything and the plague on Snyder be my guest.

[RepHope]

Btw, Snyder filmed the Superman vs JL fight, you can see him in the bts of the sequence...

There you go.

[RepHope]

I don't worship at the altar of Whedon nor am I blind to how Whedon's output has been going down the drain since Buffy and Angel ended. After all, I saw AoU.

What makes you think I do? Avengers and AoU were both terrible. Neither one holds up at all. But Whedon has a much better track rate for mainstream success while Snyder’s success comes from either remaking movies (Dawn of the Dead) or adapting comics pretty much panel for panel (300 and Watchmen). His original work is godawful (Sucker Punch), And he made that terrible Owl movie, Guardians of whatever before he got MoS.

This idea that he would’ve BTFO of all the “haters” that Snyder fans like to claim with JL is ludicrous. Far more likely that JL would’ve bombed even harder had his cut been released.