DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Anthony Shaw]

Ditching Hal completely is hardly necessary when there is enough precedent for having more than one Earth Lantern.

The DCEU can have Hal and John at the very least, if not the others as well.

I agree with this!

[Johnny]

Which isn't what I said at all. I said it's not wise to prioritize rehabilitating him over sequels to movies starring minority or female characters who have brought in the big bucks for DC.

And I never suggested he should be "prioritized" over other characters, I said he shouldn't be swept under the rug based on his group identity or being in a bad movie where the choice of protagonist wasn't the problem.

[kjn]

If the movies are good, it will.

An Old Man Bats movie can put a lot of distance between itself and the Snyderverse simply by being well made.

Because the actors are fundamentally tied to how movies are marketed, and movies are not marketed in a vacuum. Justice League pretty much bombed, and that was because of Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. Even Wonder Woman started in a hole, but managed to make itself successful thanks to sheer quality and reaching a new audience.

Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill can be great actors (even if they IMO didn't get to show it in these movies), and that they were cast in bad movies should not be held against them. But at the same time, they are tied to the current run which is in the hole. Here it's not so much about making great movies, but in making the audience think that they won't get to see another crappy movie. Neither Affleck nor Cavill will help in reaching a new audience, and they are the faces of the current broken franchise.

[SiegePerilous02]

Which isn't what I said at all. I said it's not wise to prioritize rehabilitating him over sequels to movies starring minority or female characters who have brought in the big bucks for DC.

Well Wonder Woman 2 is already getting prioritized as it's in production, and the BOP film with Harley is already in the rumor stage whereas we've gotten nothing on the GL front in a while. So he's not getting prioritized over the women. And by sequel to the movies with minority characters, do you mean Suicide Squad 2? Because making a sequel to that film is questionable because it was hardly as successful as it could have been had it been good, and the toxic RT rating big drop offs are an indicator that a sequel probably wouldn't do too well even if Smith and Robbie were in it.

As for minority characters within the GL franchise, multiple GLs can be used and done to please as wide a fanbase as possible. Hal's fanbase can be appealed to without alienating others, and vice versa.

[Carabas]

So Hal "isn't worth the risk" because... there's other characters with the same powerset...

Going back to Hal is an actual, real risk to a triple digit million dollar budget movie because people do remember the previous film. And it is a very easily avoided risk, so there is literally no reason whatsoever to chance it.

If it does well, maybe bring him in for the sequel.

[Carabas]

Because the actors are fundamentally tied to how movies are marketed, and movies are not marketed in a vacuum. Justice League pretty much bombed, and that was because of Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. Even Wonder Woman started in a hole, but managed to make itself successful thanks to sheer quality and reaching a new audience.

Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill can be great actors (even if they IMO didn't get to show it in these movies), and that they were cast in bad movies should not be held against them. But at the same time, they are tied to the current run which is in the hole. Here it's not so much about making great movies, but in making the audience think that they won't get to see another crappy movie. Neither Affleck nor Cavill will help in reaching a new audience, and they are the faces of the current broken franchise.

It all depends on how Aquaman and Shazam! perform, I suppose. Because I think those are the shoulders this Batman movie will really have to stand on, not Snyder's movies.

[Frontier]

Going back to Hal is an actual, real risk to a triple digit million dollar budget movie because people do remember the previous film. And it is a very easily avoided risk, so there is literally no reason whatsoever to chance it.

If it does well, maybe bring him in for the sequel.

I think the original film is going to hang over the movie whether Hal is in it or not.

And I think the fact that they're probably going to pair him with another Lantern who will share focus in the movie will alleviate the issue of him being in it to some degree.

[Johnny]

Going back to Hal is an actual, real risk to a triple digit million dollar budget movie because people do remember the previous film. And it is a very easily avoided risk, so there is literally no reason whatsoever to chance it.

If it does well, maybe bring him in for the sequel.

The risk boils down to WB once again investing in the Green Lantern property generally, not the Hal Jordan character specifically. Hal is no more risky as a character than anyone else carrying the Green Lantern mantle. Replacing him with someone else will not "avoid" the risk, the movie will still be called "Green Lantern", you'll still have posters of a character in a green suit with the name "Green Lantern" above and the main character(s) will still have the same powers, since it's the same brand. That's the real risk and the main reason WB is taking their time with it. The concept being so expensive to translate to screen plays a big part as well.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Going back to Hal is an actual, real risk to a triple digit million dollar budget movie because people do remember the previous film. And it is a very easily avoided risk, so there is literally no reason whatsoever to chance it.

If it does well, maybe bring him in for the sequel.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure nobody in the general audience blames Hal for the first Green Lantern movie any more than they blame Bruce Wayne for Batman Forever. The idea that WB is "risking" anything by going with Hal again is just a baseless straw man argument pushed by fans who want to champion their own personal favorite GL as opposed to any real fear of him not being able to perform. People didn't like the GL movie because it was just a poor movie, not because they just happened to pick Hal Jordan as the protagonist.

[SiegePerilous02]

Going back to Hal is an actual, real risk to a triple digit million dollar budget movie because people do remember the previous film. And it is a very easily avoided risk, so there is literally no reason whatsoever to chance it.

If it does well, maybe bring him in for the sequel.

Hal alone isn't the problem. Seeing the name "Green Lantern" on the poster with the same costume and power sets is just going to remind people of the crappy movie and its dodgy special effects. It doesn't matter how many Lanterns are on said poster and what skin color they are. The property as a whole is toxic until proven otherwise. The general audience probably doesn't even remember the name Hal Jordan, they just reference Ryan Reynolds.

[Colossus1980]

Why would they care about keeping him happy? The franchise has no future. SS had some of the worst week to week drops in history. It was profitable due to the initial rush and strong marketing, but once word of mouth got out its numbers tanked.

Very interested in seeing how SS 2 will do at the box office. I thought JL was better than SS, came after the big hit WW, had her in it, had better reviews, and still made significantly less than SS. WB should put this out next year and not wait till 2020 or later.

[Confuzzled]

Well Wonder Woman 2 is already getting prioritized as it's in production, and the BOP film with Harley is already in the rumor stage whereas we've gotten nothing on the GL front in a while. So he's not getting prioritized over the women. And by sequel to the movies with minority characters, do you mean Suicide Squad 2? Because making a sequel to that film is questionable because it was hardly as successful as it could have been had it been good, and the toxic RT rating big drop offs are an indicator that a sequel probably wouldn't do too well even if Smith and Robbie were in it.

As for minority characters within the GL franchise, multiple GLs can be used and done to please as wide a fanbase as possible. Hal's fanbase can be appealed to without alienating others, and vice versa.

Regarding Hal, I was literally answering a very specific post (Krypto's Fleas) who did suggest prioritizing rehabilitating Hal's image over stuff like BoP and SS2. If you're going to bother replying to a post, at least see the entire context it was made in. Sorry for being snippy but it's frustrating because both you and Johnny took my post out of context and attributed suggestions to me that I didn't make (i.e. "sweeping Hal under the rug" as Johnny said or "alienating his fanbase" as you said).

As for Suicide Squad, while I too think it left some money on the table, "hardly as successful if it had been good" is a very hypothetical scenario that cannot realistically be proven. It was a success and even if it had been received well by critics, I don't think the increase would have been THAT much. Also, some aspects of the film that some people criticized about the film (the juggalo meets gangstah make-overs, the soundtrack populated with Top 40 artists etc.) proved to be VERY successful, especially among younger demographics.

The bottomline is WB came out with a special statement congratulating the film's success for boosting their revenue for that financial quarter, and specifically namechecked El Diablo for drawing in a large number of Latino audiences. So its sequel is worth prioritizing, especially when it comes to ensuring it retains what clicked with people the last time and improving upon what didn't work.

[Confuzzled]

Very interested in seeing how SS 2 will do at the box office. I thought JL was better than SS, came after the big hit WW, had her in it, had better reviews, and still made significantly less than SS. WB should put this out next year and not wait till 2020 or later.

SS had far more hooks for audiences than JL, to the point where SS, like WW, was immune to the toxicity surrounding BvS. It was observed that Hispanic and black male audiences turned up in larger numbers for SS than your average superhero movie, and WB credited it to the inclusion of characters like El Diablo and Deadshot played by Will Smith.

I think SS2 will do fine if it is decent quality wise and capitalizes on marketing to those demographics. This rumor of including The Rock's Black Adam seems a step in the right direction for that. Also, it will probably have something the first movie didn't have: a China release, and they love The Rock and claim to like Will Smith a lot too.

[Battomann]

Because the actors are fundamentally tied to how movies are marketed, and movies are not marketed in a vacuum. Justice League pretty much bombed, and that was because of Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. Even Wonder Woman started in a hole, but managed to make itself successful thanks to sheer quality and reaching a new audience.

Ben Affleck and Henry Cavill can be great actors (even if they IMO didn't get to show it in these movies), and that they were cast in bad movies should not be held against them. But at the same time, they are tied to the current run which is in the hole. Here it's not so much about making great movies, but in making the audience think that they won't get to see another crappy movie. Neither Affleck nor Cavill will help in reaching a new audience, and they are the faces of the current broken franchise.

Well, I haven't read comics in ages. And what I had last read were Dark Horse Star Wars and manga--this is my 12th year in Japan. Last comic I read was Miller's TDK. I had grown annoyed with superhero movies beginning with Batman Forever with the exception of TDK trilogy, still the greatest superhero movie series. Then came the MCU, which I think overall is excellent and is huge here in Japan.

I wondered when would DC respond. It appears to be a rough start. I hope they can right the ship.

When I had heard that Nolan was doing Superman, I was excited, only to learn that he wouldn't write and direct. MoS was good, but didn't wow me, perhaps I was too attached to Terence Stamp.

I really wanted to see BvS, but was too busy and then disappointed with the reception. Seems nothing but bad news for DC until WW, which was great. I hope new showrunning will help DC.

I rewatched MoS and thought it was great. I'm about to watch BvS and then JL for the first time. I liked Cavill alot as Superman and I hear good things about Affleck. If I think they're the right choices after tonight, I'd hope DC continues to use them.

One reason I'm here is because whereas I had wondered if the superhero genre was being overdone, MCU's continud success, especially BP, has shown otherwise. And now I'm back into reading comics, TDK and New 52 Batman.

[kjn]

Very interested in seeing how SS 2 will do at the box office. I thought JL was better than SS, came after the big hit WW, had her in it, had better reviews, and still made significantly less than SS. WB should put this out next year and not wait till 2020 or later.

I think what happened was that Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad, while financially successful, put both Wonder Woman and Justice League in the hole. Wonder Woman was good enough and had enough reach towards an underserved demographic that it could climb out of that hole; Justice League had neither.

I do think a Cyborg movie makes more sense than most of the announced movies, with a black director, and focusing on a black man considered a monster by the environment around him, being taught that he is a monster, and his way out of that. In a way, taking one of the issues that Black Panther hinted at but dropped, and going all-in on that one.