DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[ironman2978]

As for Matt Reeves, I have resolved unless it comes from Matt himself, everything is heresay and take it with a grain of salt.

But with Snyder, I was geniuenly interested in his ideas and he brought some good concepts to the DCEU (Polynesian Aquaman, a Batman who has experience and been through some stuff before he meets Superman, a Wonder Woman who's been around since World War 1, among other), it was always the execution that was lackluster and disappointing. That being said, I would be disappointed if he killed Dick before he even showed his face in the DCEU, so I am glad that wasn't in continuity.

[stargazer01]

Wow. That is a lot of equivocating right there. Seriously. Why did he even bother writing all that? There are so many "coulds" and "mights" that he may as well have not written anything at all.

Agreed, he's not saying anything new lol. Anyone could say that.

[Carabas]

Genuinely glad he's not involved anymore. Starting a cinematic universe out of DKR was always a colossal blunder and possibly the reason things have been so difficult to catch on.

It's very different from the comics, but I see no reasons at all why it wouldn't work amazingly well, provided the films are competently made.

[Stromberg]

Lively is the only one who looks like Dinah, imo.

[kjn]

It's very different from the comics, but I see no reasons at all why it wouldn't work amazingly well, provided the films are competently made.

Doing Moore's and Miller's DKR as a movie can certainly work; one could even say that that was what Nolan did, though he did so very loosely. But it requires a filmmaker like Nolan who doesn't mistake style for substance; Zack Snyder is not that filmmaker.

But, more fundamentally, note that what Nolan—and Moore and Miller—did was a conclusion to Batman's character arc. By starting at that point in Batman's career, you're opening up the cinematic universe on the wrong end for one of your most central characters. That Snyder didn't realise that shows how shallow his understanding of story-telling is.

[Carabas]

Doing Moore's and Miller's DKR as a movie can certainly work; one could even say that that was what Nolan did, though he did so very loosely. But it requires a filmmaker like Nolan who doesn't mistake style for substance; Zack Snyder is not that filmmaker.

But, more fundamentally, note that what Nolan—and Moore and Miller—did was a conclusion to Batman's character arc. By starting at that point in Batman's career, you're opening up the cinematic universe on the wrong end for one of your most central characters. That Snyder didn't realise that shows how shallow his understanding of story-telling is.

To me the end of The Dark Knight Returns feels as much as an ending as a new beginning for Batman.

[jump]

Doing Moore's and Miller's DKR as a movie can certainly work; one could even say that that was what Nolan did, though he did so very loosely. But it requires a filmmaker like Nolan who doesn't mistake style for substance; Zack Snyder is not that filmmaker.

But, more fundamentally, note that what Nolan—and Moore and Miller—did was a conclusion to Batman's character arc. By starting at that point in Batman's career, you're opening up the cinematic universe on the wrong end for one of your most central characters. That Snyder didn't realise that shows how shallow his understanding of story-telling is.

Just my opinion but both Nolan and Snyder aren't great storytellers, whilst Nolan I think is a far superior director to Snyder he feels too clinical and often misses the big heart moments of his films.

[jump]

Doing Moore's and Miller's DKR as a movie can certainly work; one could even say that that was what Nolan did, though he did so very loosely. But it requires a filmmaker like Nolan who doesn't mistake style for substance; Zack Snyder is not that filmmaker.

But, more fundamentally, note that what Nolan—and Moore and Miller—did was a conclusion to Batman's character arc. By starting at that point in Batman's career, you're opening up the cinematic universe on the wrong end for one of your most central characters. That Snyder didn't realise that shows how shallow his understanding of story-telling is.

Just my opinion but both Nolan and Snyder aren't great storytellers, whilst Nolan I think is a far superior director to Snyder he feels too clinical and often misses the big heart moments of his films.

[kjn]

To me the end of The Dark Knight Returns feels as much as an ending as a new beginning for Batman.

Or at least a new beginning for Bruce Wayne; doing an ending that has the elements of a new beginning is a hallmark of many great stories. But what Snyder did was backtracking on Batman's character from the Nolan's TDKR, and doing so without any kind of showing how that happened.

[Agent Z]

Or at least a new beginning for Bruce Wayne; doing an ending that has the elements of a new beginning is a hallmark of many great stories. But what Snyder did was backtracking on Batman's character from the Nolan's TDKR, and doing so without any kind of showing how that happened.

You can't backtrack on a version of a character you never directed.

Also, we did see what made Bruce like this. It's right there in the beginning when he witnesses the battle in Metropolis.

[Vanguard-01]

You can't backtrack on a version of a character you never directed.

Also, we did see what made Bruce like this. It's right there in the beginning when he witnesses the battle in Metropolis.

That, plus twenty years of the stress and exertion of waging an endless war against the crime and corruption of a city with a seemingly endless supply of crime and corruption. To say nothing of the loss of at least one person with whom he was close.

[byrd156]

Using Dark Knight returns as a starting point for Batman is a terrible idea but the idea of a grizzled semi-retired Batman could work. Where the DCEU version fell short was Synder taking the Batman from that story and thinking 100% this is how Batman should be. DKR is good but its a deconstruction of the character, it's semi-serious satire of the character.

[Frontier]

Lively is the only one who looks like Dinah, imo.

I think Kirby looks a lot more like Dinah, honestly.

To me the end of The Dark Knight Returns feels as much as an ending as a new beginning for Batman.

I'm not sure that new beginning would work in the context of a burgeoning DC Cinematic Universe.

[Hawkman]

I don't want to rehash the endless debates about Snyder or harp on him too much, but ultimately I think it's become pretty clear that his vision wasn't the right one to direct a DC Cinematic Universe, but I think on that front Warner Bros. is as culpable, if not moreso.

As someone who loves both Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, I agree with you. Snyder is a great visual director, but he really needed someone to rope him in on some of his story elements. Luckily, it seems like a lot of his most damaging ideas were ultimately cut anyway, so most of the harm he inflicted remains reparable by simply not acknowledging it ever happened.

There was a time there that it seemed like everyone at Warner Brothers believed that DC comics was created in 1986 by Alan Moore and Frank Miller.

I think Warner Bros. were and still are in large part obsessed with separating their live-action superhero films from the tone of the Joel Schumacher Batman films. As is often the case with extremes, though, they swung the pendulum just as hard in the opposite direction.

[Lightning Rider]

I love Snyder and most of his choices thus far but I am glad Dick can be salvaged. With a perfectly good story with Jason as the focal point instead, it would be a huge waste of an iconic character and the potential to have them interact and reflect on their past.