DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Triple J]

Lex about BvS

I was actually hoping to reveal the whole plot. Yes. Yes. He has no hair... on his head. It's like the most incredible character. It was written by this guy, Chris Terrio. This is like his next movie after Argo. He's just this brilliant writer of character, so this movie is not like a kind of cartoonish superhero movie. It's this very serious well-acted, well directed movie. It's really phenomenal.

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/conten...man-today-show

Didn't know Jesse was a writer. Click the link to watch the interview (he talks about his latest book).

[Frontier]

A question: Do you guys want to see DC heroes making hard choices?

Not everyone can be saved - sometimes, one has to make tough choices - for the greater good (might sound a little corny, but that's the truth). With DCEU being more serious, would you guys like this?



One of my favorite scenes from Watchmen. Of course, it doesn't have to be as intense or bad as this...especially since folks like Superman are heroes (and perhaps are best depicted as such). So, they won't support or do something like this. But, something similar, less intense.

What do you guys think?

Example would be Barry having to choose his mother's life over altered/fractured timeline? (if they ever do a Flashpoint movie).

I think anyone's opinion on this depends on what they would personally want from Superhero movies or feel they should be like, as well as their personal tastes.

Me, I like my Superhero movies to generally be uplifting and enjoyable but not necessarily adverse to serious topics or darker material, though I generally expect that a Superhero movie will always veer towards the idealistic side of things on those issues. Though what counts as "uplifting" and "enjoyable" can be subjective to the viewer.

For what it's worth, Watchmen isn't my kind of Superhero story.

[Lightning Rider]

A question: Do you guys want to see DC heroes making hard choices?

Not everyone can be saved - sometimes, one has to make tough choices - for the greater good (might sound a little corny, but that's the truth). With DCEU being more serious, would you guys like this?



One of my favorite scenes from Watchmen. Of course, it doesn't have to be as intense or bad as this...especially since folks like Superman are heroes (and perhaps are best depicted as such). So, they won't support or do something like this. But, something similar, less intense.

What do you guys think?

Example would be Barry having to choose his mother's life over altered/fractured timeline? (if they ever do a Flashpoint movie).

I'd rather not have the stupid Barry's mother retcon included but that's besides your point. I think if heroes are going to make hard choices, they should find that magical 3rd way. Ordinary people have to make hard choices all the time, I think superheroes should find a way to avoid a cold cost-benefit analysis (as I expressed in the politics/ideology thread).

[FishyZombie]

I'd rather not have the stupid Barry's mother retcon included but that's besides your point. I think if heroes are going to make hard choices, they should find that magical 3rd way. Ordinary people have to make hard choices all the time, I think superheroes should find a way to avoid a cold cost-benefit analysis (as I expressed in the politics/ideology thread).

Personally, I actually do enjoy seeing characters go through these types of dilemmas, It adds to the experience when you can leave the theater wondering if they made the right choice, seeing flash leave his own mother to die in the show, was hard to watch, yet it was one of the more well done scenes of the show (though I also do not want the dead mother thing in the dceu). Plus every once and a while, its good to see that these characters are fallible (well some of them anyway), otherwise it becomes too predictable. As for the magical third choice... well that depends on how it is done. I do understand wanting your favorite heroes to keep their hands clean but if it is too convenient, like Nick Fury randomly poping up with an helecarrier at AOU, then its just lame and anti-climatic. The way I like it when the hero comes up with a creative way to get out of situations, (sorry for another MCU reference, but an example of it being well done was when Iron man saved a bunch of people falling from a plane by having them grab onto each other). That way, we actually see the hero using their heads rather than them just being lucky.

[Punisher007]

I feel like if they can ALWAYS find this magical "third way," then it kind of undermines any kind of real tension suspense since you know that they'll ALWAYS get out of it. Arrow Season 1 ends with Oliver basically losing, and I loved that. It was unexpected and it made sense, and it left open lots of intriguing possibilities for S2. As did the ending of MOS as well imo.

[Triple J]

I think anyone's opinion on this depends on what they would personally want from Superhero movies or feel they should be like, as well as their personal tastes.

Me, I like my Superhero movies to generally be uplifting and enjoyable but not necessarily adverse to serious topics or darker material, though I generally expect that a Superhero movie will always veer towards the idealistic side of things on those issues. Though what counts as "uplifting" and "enjoyable" can be subjective to the viewer.

For what it's worth, Watchmen isn't my kind of Superhero story.

I'd rather not have the stupid Barry's mother retcon included but that's besides your point. I think if heroes are going to make hard choices, they should find that magical 3rd way. Ordinary people have to make hard choices all the time, I think superheroes should find a way to avoid a cold cost-benefit analysis (as I expressed in the politics/ideology thread).

Personally, I actually do enjoy seeing characters go through these types of dilemmas, It adds to the experience when you can leave the theater wondering if they made the right choice, seeing flash leave his own mother to die in the show, was hard to watch, yet it was one of the more well done scenes of the show (though I also do not want the dead mother thing in the dceu). Plus every once and a while, its good to see that these characters are fallible (well some of them anyway), otherwise it becomes too predictable. As for the magical third choice... well that depends on how it is done. I do understand wanting your favorite heroes to keep their hands clean but if it is too convenient, like Nick Fury randomly poping up with an helecarrier at AOU, then its just lame and anti-climatic. The way I like it when the hero comes up with a creative way to get out of situations, (sorry for another MCU reference, but an example of it being well done was when Iron saved a bunch of people falling from a plane by having them grab onto each other). That way, we actually see the hero using their heads rather than them just being lucky.

I feel like if they can ALWAYS find this magical "third way," then it kind of undermines any kind of real tension suspense since you know that they'll ALWAYS get out of it. Arrow Season 1 ends with Oliver basically losing, and I loved that. It was unexpected and it made sense, and it left open lots of intriguing possibilities for S2. As did the ending of MOS as well imo.

I do agree partially - They should find a 3rd way to solve issues - but they shouldn't rely on such devices all the time (It's real easy to just say that Flash saved everyone - considering he can travel at super speed).

At the same time, most of the recent Superhero movies we have gotten are like that - no hard choices per se. Just heroes finding easy and quick ways to end the crisis (it sort of undermines the crisis itself). That's part the reason why I want more DCEU heroes making tough choices (maybe not Batman or Superman. But, others surely can. Aquaman, WW, GL - they don't have to be outright heroes. They don't have any problem with killing. With GL, it's more about following the Guardians' orders - and perhaps interfering with unnecessary matters and sometimes that may result in making tough choices - like brokering peace between two warring factions requiring a sacrifice?).

Although that might not sit well with folks - as we have seen with MOS. We will see how they handle it in BvS (Snyder mentioned that the villain of the story is upto the perception of audience - one may or may not think of Batman as the antagonist).

[Agent Z]

Depending on the hero, it may not be a "hard choice" per say. Superman might avoid killing a villain, but Wonder Woman won't. Though neither would enjoy the act.

[Lightning Rider]

Personally, I actually do enjoy seeing characters go through these types of dilemmas, It adds to the experience when you can leave the theater wondering if they made the right choice, seeing flash leave his own mother to die in the show, was hard to watch, yet it was one of the more well done scenes of the show (though I also do not want the dead mother thing in the dceu). Plus every once and a while, its good to see that these characters are fallible (well some of them anyway), otherwise it becomes too predictable. As for the magical third choice... well that depends on how it is done. I do understand wanting your favorite heroes to keep their hands clean but if it is too convenient, like Nick Fury randomly poping up with an helecarrier at AOU, then its just lame and anti-climatic. The way I like it when the hero comes up with a creative way to get out of situations, (sorry for another MCU reference, but an example of it being well done was when Iron saved a bunch of people falling from a plane by having them grab onto each other). That way, we actually see the hero using their heads rather than them just being lucky.

This is true as well. I just guess it depends on how high the stakes are. I like to think a hero will risk sacrificing themselves so that neither party is harmed. But there are definitely scenarios where it's interesting to see a hero justify making a different type of sacrifice by making a choice.

I feel like if they can ALWAYS find this magical "third way," then it kind of undermines any kind of real tension suspense since you know that they'll ALWAYS get out of it. Arrow Season 1 ends with Oliver basically losing, and I loved that. It was unexpected and it made sense, and it left open lots of intriguing possibilities for S2. As did the ending of MOS as well imo.

Zod VS Civilians was a hard choice. But it wasn't one that sacrificed Superman's heroism. Which is my fear with these types of dilemmas.

I guess one way to express what I'm saying is that I don't want Joker's boat dilemma from TDK to end with one of them exploding.

I do agree partially - They should find a 3rd way to solve issues - but they shouldn't rely on such devices all the time (It's real easy to just say that Flash saved everyone - considering he can travel at super speed).

At the same time, most of the recent Superhero movies we have gotten are like that - no hard choices per se. Just heroes finding easy and quick ways to end the crisis (it sort of undermines the crisis itself). That's part the reason why I want more DCEU heroes making tough choices (maybe not Batman or Superman. But, others surely can. Aquaman, WW, GL - they don't have to be outright heroes. They don't have any problem with killing. With GL, it's more about following the Guardians' orders - and perhaps interfering with unnecessary matters and sometimes that may result in making tough choices - like brokering peace between two warring factions requiring a sacrifice?).

Although that might not sit well with folks - as we have seen with MOS. We will see how they handle it in BvS (Snyder mentioned that the villain of the story is upto the perception of audience - one may or may not think of Batman as the antagonist).

Yeah I don't want them to be easy or convenient ones at all. That always sucks the tension out of it. A common one is saving the world vs saving someone you love, either a partner or a sidekick. That's always difficult.

[Triple J]

Depending on the hero, it may not be a "hard choice" per say. Superman might avoid killing a villain, but Wonder Woman won't. Though neither would enjoy the act.

Good point. I didn't think about it from their perspective. I wonder if they will explore that in the movies...Superman might take up a no kill code. Assuming Batman has one, would the two be opposed against their teammates' ideologies?

[Lightning Rider]

Depending on the hero, it may not be a "hard choice" per say. Superman might avoid killing a villain, but Wonder Woman won't. Though neither would enjoy the act.

True, it is context-specific.

[MykeHavoc]

But if the "magical third option" is appropriate for any character, it's Superman. He defines achieving the impossible. If you boil the character down, that's the very essence of what he represents to me, and I would assume others. It doesn't always have to be "kill or be killed". Their are plenty of characters on a more human level to explore these themes. We're talking about the ultimate SUPER-human. His options are limitless. It's the power fantasy, but it also makes you think that maybe we sell ourselves short with decision making and perhaps there are other possibilities, if we allow ourselves to ascend to our full potential. Our wits can get us far beyond simply "black or white" choices.

[Black_Adam]

http://batman-news.com/2015/09/05/to...uperman-video/

Tom Hardy says he definitely wants a part in the DCEU.

[Triple J]

This is true as well. I just guess it depends on how high the stakes are. I like to think a hero will risk sacrificing themselves so that neither party is harmed. But there are definitely scenarios where it's interesting to see a hero justify making a different type of sacrifice by making a choice.

Zod VS Civilians was a hard choice. But it wasn't one that sacrificed Superman's heroism. Which is my fear with these types of dilemmas.

I guess one way to express what I'm saying is that I don't want Joker's boat dilemma from TDK to end with one of them exploding.

Yeah I don't want them to be easy or convenient ones at all. That always sucks the tension out of it. A common one is saving the world vs saving someone you love, either a partner or a sidekick. That's always difficult.

Yeah, especially the last part. Although with Superman, people might not like him facing such dilemmas (as evidenced in MOS), even though it was a different type of dilemma, much more impersonal.

But if the "magical third option" is appropriate for any character, it's Superman. He defines achieving the impossible. If you boil the character down, that's the very essence of what he represents to me, and I would assume others. It doesn't always have to be "kill or be killed". Their are plenty of characters on a more human level to explore these themes. We're talking about the ultimate SUPER-human. His options are limitless. It's the power fantasy, but it also makes you think that maybe we sell ourselves short with decision making and perhaps there are other possibilities, if we allow ourselves to ascend to our full potential. Our wits can get us far beyond simply "black or white" choices.

I agree - as long as they don't take it too far (no amnesia kisses, Earth backward spinning etc).

I wonder what they have planned for Shazam. Since he's in the same league as Supes (power level wise), perhaps they can show him making tough decisions.

Or maybe not. Perhaps DC/WB might want to make Shazam a more kid friendly movie (and that would be a great strategy - build up Shazam popularity, to where it used to be).

[Triple J]

Momoa talks about Aquaman

[MykeHavoc]

I agree - as long as they don't take it too far (no amnesia kisses, Earth backward spinning etc).

While I think everyone can agree amnesia kiss is the worst thing ever (along with most of Dick Lester's unnecessary changes during the reshoots for Supes II) I will always fight to justify the ending of the first film. Superman doesn't counter spin the earth all that often. He did it once, and for one reason. It ties directly back into the first act of the film when Pa Kent dies, and Clark laments at his funeral "All these powers... and I still couldn't save him". A god among men who feels helpless to fix the things most personal and important to him? (A point I happily throw in the face of anyone who claims Supes is "unrelateable"). When faced with a similar situation years later, with far more hones skills and in a fit of desperate rage, he lashes out in an attempt to change his failure. And there are repercussions for the abuse of power, with Jor-El's warning not to alter the events of human history coming back to haunt him. I actually think it is the perfect ending to a film about a character able to push himself to achieve the impossible. And it's the ideal set up for the sequel.