DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[byrd156]

You make it sound like he did something wrong. He pulled versions of the characters straight from celebrated comics, but they weren't the versions audiences were prepared to see. He took risks and made an honest attempt at an artistic movie with social commentary. He didn't do anything blasphemous or disrespect the source material. Quite the contrary.

What social commentary and risks were there in Synder's DCEU movies?

[Atlanta96]

You're basically saying he shouldn't have had the vision he did then. Doesn't make sense from an artist's perspective.

If someone's vision leads to terrible art then it's a bad vision. Snyder makes bad movies, his visions are bad. It's his fault they're bad.

[Lightning Rider]

What social commentary and risks were there in Synder's DCEU movies?

-Depicting a mix of Golden-Age/Post-Crisis Superman in MOS instead of something closer to a Reeve homage was a risk
-Depicting Ma and Pa Kent as nervous about Clark's powers was a risk
-Having Superman kill Zod was a risk
-The destruction resulting from Superman's fight with Zod clearly parallels 9/11, and Bruce's blind rage parallels the xenophobia and militarism present in the aftermath
-Showing Superman as a controversial, rather than universally beloved figure, was a risk
-The conversations about Superman are a commentary on how Society engages with global icons and reacts to foreign power
-Lex's philosophical ramblings echoe the famous "Problem of Evil" critique of the Abrahamic religions
-The Senate scene contrasts the innocence of Superman against a world cynical enough to have terrorist bombings in it
-The Africa scene (particularly in the ultimate cut) alludes to the moral complications of intervention and interference
-Adapting Frank Miller's Batman and having him fight Superman was a risk
-Showing Bruce as paranoid and misguided was a risk
-Killing Superman was a risk
-Including Wonder Woman was a risk
-Making a movie that didn't have lots of jokes in it and strayed from the current comic book movie paradigm was a risk

And all that's true regardless of whether you liked the movie.

[Lightning Rider]

If someone's vision leads to terrible art then it's a bad vision. Snyder makes bad movies, his visions are bad. It's his fault they're bad.

Art is only terrible if it's irrelevant. If you don't like it, fine, but don't act like Snyder did anything wrong in executing a particular artistic vision. He was expressing himself. You can't ask him not to exist.

I liked the movie, and think his vision was great. That doesn't make you wrong for disagreeing, but it's a strange thing to punish an artist for expressing themselves and rejoicing at the thought of their discontent, especially when it stems from a possibly formulaic watering down of the universe he helped create.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The crying of the Snyder minions gives me life.

Nobody's crying. Nobody's his minions. It's just dumb they kept him if they want to go in a different vision. The film at least will be beautifully shot so that's too look forward too.

[AcesX1X]

If someone's vision leads to terrible art then it's a bad vision. Snyder makes bad movies, his visions are bad. It's his fault they're bad.

no....what? this is wrong on so many levels. why say such a horrid thing?

i would like some clarity on the snyder side of things, but he has given us two very bold superman films that got people in theters again. he deserves to be treated better than some animal.

[SiegePerilous02]

If someone's vision leads to terrible art then it's a bad vision. Snyder makes bad movies, his visions are bad. It's his fault they're bad.

I doubt either Snyder or Ayer set out to make bad movies, and the opinion that their bad (or entirely without good points) is a subjective one. Regardless of how good they are or aren't, Snyder in particular doesn't deserve the personal attacks "fans" have lobbied against him as a person. Nobody does.

[Vanguard-01]

I'm sorry but the thought of Snyder being pissed about his DCEU plans being scrapped makes me so happy. I mean, he kinda deserves it doesn't he?

I believe that Snyder wasn't lying when he says that he planned to take things in a lighter direction all along. Heck, Johns and Berg pretty much confirm that in the article, so unless they're ALL lying, I think we can trust that it was never the plan to keep things dark forever. I personally liked the idea of starting dark and slowly turning up the lights. I don't see the huge problems that others see with Snyder's work.

All that said? I can acknowledge that Snyder probably wasn't the guy to pull off this approach to DC movies. He's good at what he does, but the approach he describes requires the kind of nuanced storytelling that just isn't his strong suit.

Furthermore, I can also acknowledge that while I personally enjoyed Snyder's movies, I can recognize that a lot of other people didn't. Warner Bros are a business, and they have to look to the overall health of the brands they own. If they're convinced that Snyder's approach is not what's best for those brands, then who am I to argue? They've got whole departments full of people whose entire job is to analyze the market and try to predict what will sell and what won't.

So, does Snyder deserve to be kicked to the curb? I don't think so. He would truly deserve it if we could prove that he did what he did out of some genuine sense of malice or a even a complete misunderstanding of the characters with which he was working. I don't get that from him at all. I get that he knows and respects these characters very well, and that he genuinely thought that the audience would enjoy seeing them taken in a new and different direction. I get that he was hoping that the destination would make the journey well worth it.

Now, what remains to be seen is whether he can accept the idea that his ideas don't seem to be good for business for WB and adapt accordingly. If he can, then he deserves to retain some status within the DCEU, as far as I'm concerned. If he can't, then perhaps he does deserve to be shown the door.

[The Darknight Detective]

I doubt either Snyder or Ayer set out to make bad movies, and the opinion that their bad (or entirely without good points) is a subjective one. Regardless of how good they are or aren't, Snyder in particular doesn't deserve the personal attacks "fans" have lobbied against him as a person. Nobody does.

Personal attacks over fictional characters makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It says a lot more about the attackers than the attacked.

[Atlanta96]

Sorry, but Snyder disappointed a lot of fans with his work. Many of them probably care about those characters more than he does. Youve got to admit Snyder feeling massive disappointment over the DCEU is a bit of karma. And it's not like his career is completely over if he never works on a DC film ever again, he'll be fine.

Also, remember what he did to Jimmy Olsen. His feelings towards DC and fans of DC are, at the very least, questionable.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Sorry, but Snyder disappointed a lot of fans with his work. Many of them probably care about those characters more than he does. Youve got to admit Snyder feeling massive disappointment over the DCEU is a bit of karma. And it's not like his career is completely over if he never works on a DC film ever again, he'll be fine.

Also, remember what he did to Jimmy Olsen. His feelings towards DC and fans of DC are, at the very least, questionable.

That Jimmy Olsen thing was in good faith. It was a preparation of things to come from the movie.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I would as well generally. The problem to my mind is cancelling the Black Guy's movie and having him go from the JL to a Titans movie. Sorry its a demotion anyway you cut it. And not a good look. It does prove what most of us thought all a long Cyborg aint Primetime material...especially with that appearance and Geoff Characterization and Development.

Sorry, but I don't share those sentiments. The Titans are not some rinky-dink team. They're one of the flagship teams of the DC Universe and an equivalent of the League on several fronts. Treating them as "the B team" is why the franchise has suffered in recent years. It almost like Marvel treating the X-Men like the B team to the Avengers. Oh, wait...

Anyway, Cyborg is a mainstay of the Titans and should be with them not the League.

[Lightning Rider]

Actually having Cyborg appear both in Justice League AND the Teen Titans makes him seem pretty important.

[Atlanta96]

Actually having Cyborg appear both in Justice League AND the Teen Titans makes him seem pretty important.

Yep, being the only DCEU character to serve on the two most important superhero teams is more impressive than whatever a Cyborg solo film would do for him. Even if Titans is less prestigious than the JL, Vic fits in better with the Titans which is most important.

[colonyofcells]

I prefer a Titans movie with cyborg, starfire, raven and changeling.