DC Extended Universe (POST NO SPOILERS HERE!)

[Atlanta96]

Maybe instead of spending time bashing the movie unfairly, you should rewatch the movie. You might appreciate it more than you do at present.

I literally just watched it last night. The Martha scene was hilarious IMO, the fact that their mothers having the same name was so important to the film was a laughable decision. And Superman was stupid for not just telling Batman his mother was in danger. It would've taken 10 seconds. He had plenty of opportunities, that's obvious when watching their confrontation.

[misslane]

I literally just watched it last night. The Martha scene was hilarious IMO, the fact that their mothers having the same name was so important to the film was a laughable decision. And Superman was stupid for not just telling Batman his mother was in danger. It would've taken 10 seconds. He had plenty of opportunities, that's obvious when watching their confrontation.

Superman did try to tell Batman his mother in danger. You say you watched and understood the film, but when you can't even keep basic facts straight, then why should your opinion be taken seriously? Do you have any clear or logical reason why the Martha resolution was laughable? Keep in mind that the murder of Bruce's parents is the defining moment of his life and what has shaped his every choice and move ever since. If there was ever going to be anything that would get through to Batman it would be something that brought him back to that night and that moment. Seeing and hearing Superman saying the same things as his father once did allowed Batman to see the truth about himself and what he had become. He was seconds away from becoming Joe Chill. If you can't accept how transformative a moment of clarity like that can have on a person, then that's on you and not the film.

[Clark_Kent]

No I like Chris Nolan. Youve got to admit that seeing the Wayne's get shot in live action twice in 11 years is a little repetitive. Especially since we've seen it so many times before. Do they show it in that Gotham show too? That would make it 3 times.

They re-did the Waynes getting shot because it sets up the conclusion to the fight later on. Does it really matter that they re-did it? It's like 3 minutes. You need to remember that this was somebody's very first Batman movie. You can't just assume that everyone has seen the same movies/shows as people on message boards have. If someone is watching their first Batman movie, should they not get to see their murder?

[SiegePerilous02]

You guys...X-Men the Last Stand and Spider-Man 3 have higher RT% score than BvS. They're not amazing anything and X3 is still rotten but...Jesus. I guess people were more upset by Jimmy Olsen-who-was-not-Jimmy Olsen getting shot than they were about Cyclops getting killed after 5 minutes of screen time. And Tobey dancing like an idiot was less goofy than the "Martha" moment apparently.

They're not real characters, dude.
You're acting like DC knows what to do with Jimmy Olsen at all. Snyder made "Jimmy Olsen fans" the most active they've been in about a decade.

Maybe making people finally give a crap about Jimmy for the first time in ages was Snyder's real goal all along. He shocked us awake by taking away something we didn't appreciate until it was gone.

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot...

Superman did try to tell Batman his mother in danger. You say you watched and understood the film, but when you can't even keep basic facts straight, then why should your opinion be taken seriously? Do you have any clear or logical reason why the Martha resolution was laughable? Keep in mind that the murder of Bruce's parents is the defining moment of his life and what has shaped his every choice and move ever since. If there was ever going to be anything that would get through to Batman it would be something that brought him back to that night and that moment. Seeing and hearing Superman saying the same things as his father once did allowed Batman to see the truth about himself and what he had become. He was seconds away from becoming Joe Chill. If you can't accept how transformative a moment of clarity like that can have on a person, then that's on you and not the film.

The only thing I really consider goofy is Clark just saying "Martha." I interpret him as trying to say the full name but being unable to, but the film didn't really show it that well, leaving me to fanwank. But aside from that, I generally agree with your stance. People dismiss the (flawed but very interesting) scene without even trying to understand what it may be saying.

They re-did the Waynes getting shot because it sets up the conclusion to the fight later on. Does it really matter that they re-did it? It's like 3 minutes. You need to remember that this was somebody's very first Batman movie. You can't just assume that everyone has seen the same movies/shows as people on message boards have. If someone is watching their first Batman movie, should they not get to see their murder?

Snyder's was better anyway. At least it treated the Waynes as being more or less equals. Nolan gave Thomas Wayne character development and neglected Martha. Nobody cares about Thomas Wayne except as a motivator for Bruce. All I ask of him is that he gets shot after watching Zorro and dies so his son can swear vengeance. I don't need any of this "Why do we fall, Bruce?" crap.

[byrd156]

Ryan Potter Proves He Can Play Tim Drake Robin - http://comicbook.com/2016/09/11/ryan...m-drake-robin/

[Frontier]

Ryan Potter Proves He Can Play Tim Drake Robin - http://comicbook.com/2016/09/11/ryan...m-drake-robin/

He's got my vote .

[Atlanta96]

Ryan Potter Proves He Can Play Tim Drake Robin - http://comicbook.com/2016/09/11/ryan...m-drake-robin/

Oh man he's perfect! The voice, the look, he can kick ass, perfect. If they have plans for Robin in the DCEU, this kid just destroyed all competition for the part.

Also if he really wants the part he should try stalking Ben Affleck while wearing a Robin costume. Just like Sean Young did to Tim Burton when she wanted to play Catwoman

[godisawesome]

That kid certainly seems to have all the components ready made; he feels like he could be immediately cast by somebody in a superhero production as a Robin (DCEU films, Supergirl show as a guest star, whatever) , and given a director who can give him some cues to tweak his performance just a little bit more. I enjoyed him letting his opponents throw him around; I think a good character tic to build on that would be showcasing a few moments where Tim would get a little worried or act overjoyed that he landed as many hits as he did. Just enhance his dorkiness a little bit to contrast with how good he is.

I literally just watched it last night. The Martha scene was hilarious IMO, the fact that their mothers having the same name was so important to the film was a laughable decision. And Superman was stupid for not just telling Batman his mother was in danger. It would've taken 10 seconds. He had plenty of opportunities, that's obvious when watching their confrontation.

I know you guys have moved past this a bit, but your discussion made me think a bit today about how that sequence could have been tweaked to be a bit better, which is something I do with BvS sometimes, even though I actually like the movie quite a bit.

You're right that having just the name Martha break Bruce down is a bit weak, but allow me to repaint that scene a bit, including its context. First off, I'd enhance the theme of Batman having recently fallen; have Clark investigate him for the paper and determine Batman's career, explicitly revealing to the audience that he stumbled into dangerous moral territory after the second Robin's death, maybe even have Clark find out that Bruce is also estranged from Dick because of his increased lethality. Clark can express admiration over Batman's early career, and have that contrasted with his distaste for what Batman's becoming; thus, his ultimatum is granted to Batman in part because he was a good person, and Clark is struggling with the question of whether or not it's possible to stay "good in this world."

Second, have Bruce be aware of Superman's identity as Clark, though have his actions make it clear that he regards it as a cover story instead of as the real man. And make it clear that he doesn't decide to kill Superman until after the Senate bombing, so we can see how he thinks he's being objective while actually not being that at all. Also, maybe take the machine guns off the Batmobile but keep the rest of his lethal tactics; there should be something specifically poisonous about him crafting a purpose built weapon in the kryptonite staff.

Finally, in the final fight, speed up the pace of Batman's attacks and increase the number as well, so that Superman can keep trying to talk to him while being electrocuted, hit with artillery, and sonic charges. He still tosses Bruce around, but it's in reaction to Bruce continuing to waste his time, and is still holding back-- then when the kryptonite gas hits him, he can't talk. Make the fist fight more desperate; again, speed up the pace and have Superman keep trying to communicate. Finally, when Superman is down and Batman grabs the spear, Superman starts to get his voice back, while we notice that Bruce is starting to hesitate about his spear. Clark finally gives his full explanation, Bruce tells him to shut up, trying to will himself to stab Superman, Clark then starts begging that Bruce at least save his mother, Bruce yells Shut Up!, then Superman finally says her name then, and that finally makes Batman start to talk back to Superman, trying to make him confess that Martha isn't his mother, but Superman just keeps on begging, and it's clear that Bruce is losing his will to kill at the sincerity.

Then have Lois be the one who flat out calls him on his $#!+, explain its Luthor's fault, corroborates Clark's story, and Batman becomes fully ashamed of what he did, so it's very clear that he feels immense guilt over Superman dying in the Doomsday fight, and has to reevaluate his recent lethality.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Ryan Potter Proves He Can Play Tim Drake Robin - http://comicbook.com/2016/09/11/ryan...m-drake-robin/

There's nothing worse than when an actor campaigns for a role. It's a sure-fire way not to get picked, as it puts the studio in a position where they come into contention with a fanbase. Plus, it's not fair to the actor who eventually gets chosen.

Potter should have kept quiet and had his reps deal with WB.

Sorry for ya, kid.

[byrd156]

That kid certainly seems to have all the components ready made; he feels like he could be immediately cast by somebody in a superhero production as a Robin (DCEU films, Supergirl show as a guest star, whatever) , and given a director who can give him some cues to tweak his performance just a little bit more. I enjoyed him letting his opponents throw him around; I think a good character tic to build on that would be showcasing a few moments where Tim would get a little worried or act overjoyed that he landed as many hits as he did. Just enhance his dorkiness a little bit to contrast with how good he is.



I know you guys have moved past this a bit, but your discussion made me think a bit today about how that sequence could have been tweaked to be a bit better, which is something I do with BvS sometimes, even though I actually like the movie quite a bit.

You're right that having just the name Martha break Bruce down is a bit weak, but allow me to repaint that scene a bit, including its context. First off, I'd enhance the theme of Batman having recently fallen; have Clark investigate him for the paper and determine Batman's career, explicitly revealing to the audience that he stumbled into dangerous moral territory after the second Robin's death, maybe even have Clark find out that Bruce is also estranged from Dick because of his increased lethality. Clark can express admiration over Batman's early career, and have that contrasted with his distaste for what Batman's becoming; thus, his ultimatum is granted to Batman in part because he was a good person, and Clark is struggling with the question of whether or not it's possible to stay "good in this world."

Second, have Bruce be aware of Superman's identity as Clark, though have his actions make it clear that he regards it as a cover story instead of as the real man. And make it clear that he doesn't decide to kill Superman until after the Senate bombing, so we can see how he thinks he's being objective while actually not being that at all. Also, maybe take the machine guns off the Batmobile but keep the rest of his lethal tactics; there should be something specifically poisonous about him crafting a purpose built weapon in the kryptonite staff.

Finally, in the final fight, speed up the pace of Batman's attacks and increase the number as well, so that Superman can keep trying to talk to him while being electrocuted, hit with artillery, and sonic charges. He still tosses Bruce around, but it's in reaction to Bruce continuing to waste his time, and is still holding back-- then when the kryptonite gas hits him, he can't talk. Make the fist fight more desperate; again, speed up the pace and have Superman keep trying to communicate. Finally, when Superman is down and Batman grabs the spear, Superman starts to get his voice back, while we notice that Bruce is starting to hesitate about his spear. Clark finally gives his full explanation, Bruce tells him to shut up, trying to will himself to stab Superman, Clark then starts begging that Bruce at least save his mother, Bruce yells Shut Up!, then Superman finally says her name then, and that finally makes Batman start to talk back to Superman, trying to make him confess that Martha isn't his mother, but Superman just keeps on begging, and it's clear that Bruce is losing his will to kill at the sincerity.

Then have Lois be the one who flat out calls him on his $#!+, explain its Luthor's fault, corroborates Clark's story, and Batman becomes fully ashamed of what he did, so it's very clear that he feels immense guilt over Superman dying in the Doomsday fight, and has to reevaluate his recent lethality.

Where was this movie? Seriously that fixes more than half the movie for me. The lethal parts in your post would still bother me because he can still be increasingly brutal and that could still work for the story. I wish that Batfleck never killed anyone and that killing Superman was going to be his one exception which could tie into his line of "this may be the only thing I do that matters". It would add much more emotional weight to the Martha scene if this is Bruce trying to break his one rule but can't.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Also if he really wants the part he should try stalking Ben Affleck while wearing a Robin costume. Just like Sean Young did to Tim Burton when she wanted to play Catwoman

And how did that work out for her?

[byrd156]

There's nothing worse than when an actor campaigns for a role. It's a sure-fire way not to get picked, as it puts the studio in a position where they come into contention with a fanbase. Plus, it's not fair to the actor who eventually gets chosen.

Potter should have kept quiet and had his reps deal with WB.

Sorry for ya, kid.

What are you talking about? Actors campaign for roles all the time and there is nothing wrong with that. That's how the Rock was cast as Black Adam, Potter will try out for Robin role if one ever happens. If he gets it or not won't have anything to do with the fanbase and the studio/new actor won't be at odds with the fanbase.

[Atlanta96]

And how did that work out for her?

It was a joke. Thus the smiley face at the end.

[Atlanta96]

What are you talking about? Actors campaign for roles all the time and there is nothing wrong with that. That's how the Rock was cast as Black Adam, Potter will try out for Robin role if one ever happens. If he gets it or not won't have anything to do with the fanbase and the studio/new actor won't be at odds with the fanbase.

And Potter is a lesser known actor, his campaign isn't causing so much of a buzz that it puts pressure on the studio or anything. It's probably enough to make the studio aware of him, maybe consider him for the role, but there's no way he just destroyed his potential chances with the campaign. Besides, unlike many failed actor campaigns, he actually is the perfect choice.

[darkseidpwns]

And Potter is a lesser known actor, his campaign isn't causing so much of a buzz that it puts pressure on the studio or anything. It's probably enough to make the studio aware of him, maybe consider him for the role, but there's no way he just destroyed his potential chances with the campaign. Besides, unlike many failed actor campaigns, he actually is the perfect choice.

It doesn't matter, studios dont like this crap, he could have sent this video to them via his reps, putting it online is his attempt to exert pressure via fanbase, if they accommodate his request then others will follow suit. This guy can consider himself out.