Black Cat Appreciation 2018

[Phantom Roxas]

It's not completely out of left field for Felicia to have felt betrayed by Spider-Man because of what Otto Octavius did to her while passing as Spider-Man and want some payback.

This is really my big issue. The only reason she's the Queenpin in the first place is for the sake of having SpOck generate consequences that Peter has to deal with. But it's a case of blaming the victim by somehow make this actually Peter's fault for him even getting possessed in the first place to allow Otto to ruin Felicia's life. She's only evil so Superior can continue to ""resonate"" throughout the series.

[Mauled]

This is really my big issue. The only reason she's the Queenpin in the first place is for the sake of having SpOck generate consequences that Peter has to deal with. But it's a case of blaming the victim by somehow make this actually Peter's fault for him even getting possessed in the first place to allow Otto to ruin Felicia's life. She's only evil so Superior can continue to ""resonate"" throughout the series.

Is there even that though. It felt like they didn't like the character or have much use for her so they simply turned her heel (who needs a reason) and got her out the way by sticking her on the spin-off (Silk)
They probably didn't expect the back lash or realise how badly fans would take it. Hence you got the whole "she's my favourite character" routine from above (I'd be suprised if he even knew the characters name) or Slott trying to pretend it's really good idea when it clearly isn't. Seriously the Queen Pin how could someone actually pitch that with a straight face I mean seriously ???

[juan678]

art by Nebezial

[jimishim12]

I really don't want hero to be another run of the mill Hero who was once bad. seriously we need more villians in this franchise who has a brain and has the ambition to make a name for herself.

[Agent Z]

I really don't want hero to be another run of the mill Hero who was once bad. seriously we need more villians in this franchise who has a brain and has the ambition to make a name for herself.

So make other villains then. It's not like so many of the villains that went through a redemption arc stayed that way.

[Phantom Roxas]

Is there even that though. It felt like they didn't like the character or have much use for her so they simply turned her heel (who needs a reason) and got her out the way by sticking her on the spin-off (Silk)
They probably didn't expect the back lash or realise how badly fans would take it. Hence you got the whole "she's my favourite character" routine from above (I'd be suprised if he even knew the characters name) or Slott trying to pretend it's really good idea when it clearly isn't. Seriously the Queen Pin how could someone actually pitch that with a straight face I mean seriously ???

The excuse is that this was done to keep her out of "stasis". Except considering my theory that was shared here, I think it's just that she was only in stasis because she was originally planned to be killed in Ends of the Earth, so it would be like you said and that there wasn't actually much interest in her to warrant using her. As for the backlash, Lowe said in Spider-Mandate that "If there's one thing that [Editor-in-Chief] Axel Alonso taught me is that the more you know when you're doing something right is when so many fans say, 'the sky is falling.'" So, as far as they're concerned, the backlash is somehow proving them right. It's really a narrow-mind approach to look at criticism, and rather than thinking there could be some truth behind it, you take it as something to double down on. If people have given you the impression that people don't like it, why the hell do you risk having your business rely on creating more of that? It's a model that hinges solely on people hating something enough that they'll actually pay money to continue getting something they hate.

So make other villains then. It's not like so many of the villains that went through a redemption arc stayed that way.

Not to mention that "run of the mill hero who was once bad" is such a vague criticism. Is their redemption generic? How many villains-turned-heroes do we have that robs that qualifier of what made them unique? By what measure is Black Cat "run of the mill"?

[Huntsman Spider]

So make other villains then. It's not like so many of the villains that went through a redemption arc stayed that way.

And hell, if they wanted lingering consequences from Superior Spider-Man embodied in a new female nemesis for Spider-Man, why not dust off Carolyn Trainer, who was Otto's protégé that was deeply enamored of him, to the point of secretly cheering when Otto was forced to break up with Mary-Alice because of his mother's insistence on him not leaving her alone for another woman, and sought to carry on for Otto after his first death at Kaine's hands by donning an upgraded version of Otto's tentacle harness and largely menacing Ben Reilly? No reason for her not to come out of hiding with Otto's latest death and seek to destroy every last aspect of Spider-Man's life in revenge for him "killing" Otto, and it would make a lot more sense than turning a relatively morally ambiguous femme fatale like Felicia into a revenge-crazed full-on villain.

[Agent Z]

The excuse is that this was done to keep her out of "stasis". Except considering my theory that was shared here, I think it's just that she was only in stasis because she was originally planned to be killed in Ends of the Earth, so it would be like you said and that there wasn't actually much interest in her to warrant using her. As for the backlash, Lowe said in Spider-Mandate that "If there's one thing that [Editor-in-Chief] Axel Alonso taught me is that the more you know when you're doing something right is when so many fans say, 'the sky is falling.'" So, as far as they're concerned, the backlash is somehow proving them right. It's really a narrow-mind approach to look at criticism, and rather than thinking there could be some truth behind it, you take it as something to double down on. If people have given you the impression that people don't like it, why the hell do you risk having your business rely on creating more of that? It's a model that hinges solely on people hating something enough that they'll actually pay money to continue getting something they hate.



Not to mention that "run of the mill hero who was once bad" is such a vague criticism. Is their redemption generic? How many villains-turned-heroes do we have that robs that qualifier of what made them unique? By what measure is Black Cat "run of the mill"?

And as I've said, it's not like people are buying these books because of her. You could replace Felicia with any villain in these stories and nothing of value would be lost.

[Docz]

The excuse is that this was done to keep her out of "stasis". Except considering my theory that was shared here, I think it's just that she was only in stasis because she was originally planned to be killed in Ends of the Earth, so it would be like you said and that there wasn't actually much interest in her to warrant using her. As for the backlash, Lowe said in Spider-Mandate that "If there's one thing that [Editor-in-Chief] Axel Alonso taught me is that the more you know when you're doing something right is when so many fans say, 'the sky is falling.'" So, as far as they're concerned, the backlash is somehow proving them right. It's really a narrow-mind approach to look at criticism, and rather than thinking there could be some truth behind it, you take it as something to double down on. If people have given you the impression that people don't like it, why the hell do you risk having your business rely on creating more of that? It's a model that hinges solely on people hating something enough that they'll actually pay money to continue getting something they hate.



Not to mention that "run of the mill hero who was once bad" is such a vague criticism. Is their redemption generic? How many villains-turned-heroes do we have that robs that qualifier of what made them unique? By what measure is Black Cat "run of the mill"?

There's no publicity that's bad publicity? Now I know that I am just one person so I can't speak for market trends as a whole, but I'm certainly not buying any Spider titles at the moment and the primary reason is the current portrayal of Black Cat and I honestly don't understand the mentality of continuing to purchase something that you simply aren't enjoying. As I've said before I really wish I did enjoy her as she currently is because I'm happy she's actually getting a lot of page time, but I just don't. The only real positive thing I can say about her current turn is the titles I've dropped and subsequent ones I've avoided since her current status quo has opened up some slots in my comic budget and a couple of my current favorite monthlies are ones that I probably wouldn't have given a chance had I still had an interest in these books. So thanks Spider team!

[Phantom Roxas]

And as I've said, it's not like people are buying these books because of her. You could replace Felicia with any villain in these stories and nothing of value would be lost.

And that's really what Bendis' approach seems to be. He just wanted a gangster boss character to pit Miles against. Which, really, speaks about the priority with her character. Felicia is just there to fill a void left empty by Fisk's disappearance. This isn't actually about doing anything to service Felicia's character in particular.

There's no publicity that's bad publicity? Now I know that I am just one person so I can't speak for market trends as a whole, but I'm certainly not buying any Spider titles at the moment and the primary reason is the current portrayal of Black Cat and I honestly don't understand the mentality of continuing to purchase something that you simply aren't enjoying. As I've said before I really wish I did enjoy her as she currently is because I'm happy she's actually getting a lot of page time, but I just don't. The only real positive thing I can say about her current turn is the titles I've dropped and subsequent ones I've avoided since her current status quo has opened up some slots in my comic budget and a couple of my current favorite monthlies are ones that I probably wouldn't have given a chance had I still had an interest in these books. So thanks Spider team!

Well, I get why bad publicity could be useful in some cases, but treating the bad publicity as if it somehow proves that Queenpin Felicia is a good idea just doesn't make any sense.

[Docz]

And that's really what Bendis' approach seems to be. He just wanted a gangster boss character to pit Miles against. Which, really, speaks about the priority with her character. Felicia is just there to fill a void left empty by Fisk's disappearance. This isn't actually about doing anything to service Felicia's character in particular.



Well, I get why bad publicity could be useful in some cases, but treating the bad publicity as if it somehow proves that Queenpin Felicia is a good idea just doesn't make any sense.

I was agreeing with you. While bad publicity can generate a lot of buzz I don't believe it necessarily translates to better sales and I'd surprised and disappointed if the Spider team is banking on people hate buying the books she's featured in.

[Mauled]

Well I can't speak for anyone else but they already have lost me as a reader for these. I have no interest in them, so they're "publicity" has achieved that

[Phantom Roxas]

I was agreeing with you. While bad publicity can generate a lot of buzz I don't believe it necessarily translates to better sales and I'd surprised and disappointed if the Spider team is banking on people hate buying the books she's featured in.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

I think the office has been banking on people hate-buying the book since at least Superior, and now they're applying that to Felicia. Granted, I had mixed up Lowe's "sky is falling" comment, which was meant for Parker Industries, but I think it still applies to Felicia.

[Zeitgeist]

And that's really what Bendis' approach seems to be. He just wanted a gangster boss character to pit Miles against. Which, really, speaks about the priority with her character. Felicia is just there to fill a void left empty by Fisk's disappearance. This isn't actually about doing anything to service Felicia's character in particular.

There's definitely something to that last sentence. And then you have to wonder, has any part of this heel turn been in service to her character? Did Slott and Lowe go "this will be great for Black Cat!" or did they just want a prime female villain foremost and shifted Felicia into that role?

[Phantom Roxas]

There's definitely something to that last sentence. And then you have to wonder, has any part of this heel turn been in service to her character? Did Slott and Lowe go "this will be great for Black Cat!" or did they just want a prime female villain foremost and shifted Felicia into that role?

I think it was the latter, and the former was the excuse they decided on after the fact. Granted, my theory is that she was just put into a role planned for Silver Sable, but even if that's not the case, I don't think that the "Queenpin" role was designed for Felicia. It's more like the conversation was that they decided what they wanted to do, but couldn't figure out who to do it with. So Felicia was included in the Stunner story to sort of put her in the mix, since her segments really have little else to do with the rest of that two-parter.