Black Cat Appreciation 2018

[LK3185]

Wouldn't read too much into the voice actress bidding farewell cause we don't know when/if A sequel is made or if new voice actors will be chosen for some roles. Could def see Black Cat in a sequel. It wouldn't matter really the plot she played in the DLC for that.

[Frontier]

Wouldn't read too much into the voice actress bidding farewell cause we don't know when/if A sequel is made or if new voice actors will be chosen for some roles. Could def see Black Cat in a sequel. It wouldn't matter really the plot she played in the DLC for that.

Yeah, I think it's just because she's finished with her involvement in recording for the DLC, not that she will never reprise the character again (which I hope she does).

[CosmicGoji]

It was about Peter and MJ more than Felicia. They got back together at the end, and they needed a DLC to deal with that relationship while still tying to the action plot, so Felicia's there for that. It's essentially a romcom plot for a DLC. On-off couple get back together but rebound girl returns to throw a wrench.

And that's fine. My thing is why did they make Felicia look like an a-hole while doing so? It's like that story was made by MJ fanatics

Wouldn't read too much into the voice actress bidding farewell cause we don't know when/if A sequel is made or if new voice actors will be chosen for some roles. Could def see Black Cat in a sequel. It wouldn't matter really the plot she played in the DLC for that.

Hence my "for now" comment. I'm more getting at that the latest DLC is the last time you'll see her until the inevitable sequel is released. In which case, I'm gonna have to wait 2 or 3 years to see if they'll remove the sour taste in my mouth or make it worse.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And that's fine. My thing is why did they make Felicia look like an a-hole while doing so? It's like that story was made by MJ fanatics

Isn't the whole appeal of Felicia precisely the fact that she ''is'' a bit of an a-hole. I mean I thought it was funny and charming.

And it's certainly better than the ''Spider-Man: Web of Shadows'' which is an obscure 3D game that takes the Peter Felicia and MJ love triangle as its focus including the whole Black Cat loves the Symbiote suit while MJ loves Peter in the red-and-blues...and taking it all the way where the good ending has Peter being true to his missus and wearing the red-and-blue and rejecting Felicia, while the bad ending has him cheating on Felicia and becoming Venom with Black Cat as an evil queen as they rule over a zombified New York.

So you don't know what you mean when you talk of MJ fanatics.

Hence my "for now" comment. I'm more getting at that the latest DLC is the last time you'll see her until the inevitable sequel is released. In which case, I'm gonna have to wait 2 or 3 years to see if they'll remove the sour taste in my mouth or make it worse.

What exactly did you expect or want? An adaptation of the Owl-Octopus War? Which honestly would be awesome...

[CosmicGoji]

Isn't the whole appeal of Felicia precisely the fact that she ''is'' a bit of an a-hole. I mean I thought it was funny and charming.

And it's certainly better than the ''Spider-Man: Web of Shadows'' which is an obscure 3D game that takes the Peter Felicia and MJ love triangle as its focus including the whole Black Cat loves the Symbiote suit while MJ loves Peter in the red-and-blues...and taking it all the way where the good ending has Peter being true to his missus and wearing the red-and-blue and rejecting Felicia, while the bad ending has him cheating on Felicia and becoming Venom with Black Cat as an evil queen as they rule over a zombified New York.

So you don't know what you mean when you talk of MJ fanatics.

I'm well aware of Web of Shadows and its morality system. And while they make the player look like an a-hole by choosing to heal Felicia with your symbiote and become 'the King of the symbiotes' (assuming you do an all Black playthrough), I'd say what happens in the Heist is just as bad. spoilers:

Peter just lost his job, a mentor he worshipped, a philanthropist his aunt worked for and who he respected, then to top it all off he lost the closest thing he had to a mother. The last thing that needed to happen was was Peter's ex coming back, just to use him to get some lousy numbers, by telling Peter that she has a son that could be his, and is in danger.

end of spoilers

What exactly did you expect or want? An adaptation of the Owl-Octopus War? Which honestly would be awesome...

spoilers:

I actually wanted (or want) the child to be real. I've always wanted to see a universe where Felicia was pregnant with Peter's child. And with how they were setting it up in the DLC (or I how I thought they would), I saw some nice story potential.

end of spoilers

[Inversed]

Isn't the whole appeal of Felicia precisely the fact that she ''is'' a bit of an a-hole. I mean I thought it was funny and charming.

Felicia's an a-hole, but I think there's a limit to how she acts, like the whole manipulating Spider-Man into helping her steal drives by telling him she has a kid may be going a bit too far, for me at least, into making her unlikable.

I feel like she is at her best when she is working to help benefit herself, but ultimately does care about certain things, like protecting the innocent and actually caring about Spider-Man, not completely selfish. Even with her ending in the DLC, I'm not really sure exactly how remorseful she is or how much she really cares about him.

And I don't even think this is a case of trying to make MJ look better, it's just how this interpretation of Black Cat was decided for the story. Hell, you'd be surprised, I've actually seen some people who thought MJ was too "whiny" and this Black Cat is a much better choice for him, which shows how different people could feel about others' portrayals.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

spoilers:

I actually wanted (or want) the child to be real. I've always wanted to see a universe where Felicia was pregnant with Peter's child. And with how they were setting it up in the DLC (or I how I thought they would), I saw some nice story potential.

end of spoilers

"I have a child. His name is Miles Morales."
- Peter Parker mic-drop



spoilers:

Seriously the main game and the DLC sets up Peter as a surrogate father and Uncle Ben figure for Miles whose Dad died. Adding a biological kid with any mother would be counter-intuitive to the main story they are going to take forward. Peter's even using the dad voice in the third DLC in the phone conversation and the ending of the DLC and the game makes that clear.

end of spoilers

And to be honest, to the extent that the Peter/Felicia romance had any appeal among long time fans, it's precisely the no-strings no-future thing. I remember during the marriage that some Peter Felicia shippers said they were okay with Peter being married to MJ but Felicia should be his mistress, which kind of goes to show why I think I find it weird that people are complaining about Felicia being a-hole. Long time fans liked her for that, wanted Peter to become one for her, and so on.

And I don't even think this is a case of trying to make MJ look better, it's just how this interpretation of Black Cat was decided for the story. Hell, you'd be surprised, I've actually seen some people who thought MJ was too "whiny" and this Black Cat is a much better choice for him, which shows how different people could feel about others' portrayals.

I would chalk that up to the fact that the video game audience tends to be, on average, more sexist than comic fans. And video-game fans as a rule tend to be drawn to the femme fatale types and generally think a progressive portrayal of MJ (who in the game is a millenial third wave feminist, if not openly, then certainly coded as such, if her joke about fedoras in the Second DLC is anything to go by) is "whiny" by default.

[Frontier]

I don't know if I'd describe Felicia as an "a-hole."

I mean, does she lie and manipulate? Yeah, but I don't think she's usually outwardly mean or malicious unless she's being written as a Queenpin (unless she's really jealous).

I feel like she is at her best when she is working to help benefit herself, but ultimately does care about certain things, like protecting the innocent and actually caring about Spider-Man, not completely selfish. Even with her ending in the DLC, I'm not really sure exactly how remorseful she is or how much she really cares about him.

I still want to know if all that touching was just how she's usually like with people or just because she couldn't keep her hands off of him.

[CosmicGoji]

spoilers:

Seriously the main game and the DLC sets up Peter as a surrogate father and Uncle Ben figure for Miles whose Dad died. Adding a biological kid with any mother would be counter-intuitive to the main story they are going to take forward. Peter's even using the dad voice in the third DLC in the phone conversation and the ending of the DLC and the game makes that clear.

end of spoilers

As opposed to a big brother relationship?

And to be honest, to the extent that the Peter/Felicia romance had any appeal among long time fans, it's precisely the no-strings no-future thing. I remember during the marriage that some Peter Felicia shippers said they were okay with Peter being married to MJ but Felicia should be his mistress, which kind of goes to show why I think I find it weird that people are complaining about Felicia being a-hole. Long time fans liked her for that, wanted Peter to become one for her, and so on.

Well, I'm certainly not one of those fans who liked her due to her 'manipulative nature' towards Peter. And evidently, neither is anyone else who has a problem with her portrayal in the game. To put this in perspective, read the story segment of this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/SpidermanPS...disappointing/

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't know if I'd describe Felicia as an "a-hole."

I mean, does she lie and manipulate? Yeah, but I don't think she's usually outwardly mean or malicious unless she's being written as a Queenpin (unless she's really jealous).

Being an a--hole doesn't mean being evil. Like Tony Stark is an a-hole in the MCU. Even after he turns good. Felicia Hardy is a criminal, she likes to rob people, and she's never going to entirely reform. To be honest, her character always struck me as out of place in Spider-Man. Because it's a fairly old-fashioned character archetype, the cat burglar who steals but it's a victimless crime and so on. It's a kind of romanticization. It works with Batman and Catwoman because the Gotham City is inherently a fantastic alternate NY with a bunch of different eras mashed on top of each other. But in NYC in a setting that is supposed to mirror the real world to some extent, it kind of doesn't. And with Batman and Catwoman you have the sexy rich guy and poor girl dynamic (especially in Nolan's The Dark Knight Rises), whereas you don't have much with Peter and Felicia. He's a good poor graduate kid, she's a glamorous cat burglar. I mean what?

In Ultimate Spider-Man, Bendis made the Black Cat an older character, and basically used Kitty Pryde/Shadowcat to fulfill the love-triangle she had with Peter and MJ. Kitty Pryde likes Spider-Man more than Peter, which is to say she looks at Peter Parker the man behind the mask (which she likes and finds attractive unlike Classic Felicia) but she sees Peter as essentially Spider-Man and offers a chance to be a full time vigilante partner and crimefighter and so on. And Kitty Pryde has a certain realism because she's a teenager too. And of course when Peter goes back to MJ, Ultimate Peter cheats on Kitty with MJ, by kissing her before breaking off with her. Which marvelously inverts the usual love triangle and makes us sympathize with Kitty Pryde. And then the romance with Peter inspires Kitty to go on and be a hero in her own right, and Peter becomes the "man who got away" for her which is touching and sympathetic.

Whereas Felicia doesn't have the same potential for growth and change. There's never been a sense that being with Peter has made her a better person or changed her much. She keeps lapsing in and out of the same person she always was.

As opposed to a big brother relationship?

If Jefferson was alive yes. But Miles meets Peter and Spider-Man after his Dad's death. Miles gravitates towards Spider-Man many times. And in the DLC, one of the phone conversations has Peter telling Miles to stay in school, do his homework and insist that physics will make him a better Spider-Man. So it's definitely a more paternal relationship.

[Agent Z]

Felicia and Peter come from different walks of life. That reflects the real world. It doesn't mean she's out of place as a Spider-Man character. She's certainly no less out of place than a scientist with metal tentacles, a guy made of sand and a talking reptile.

And Felicia's lapsing is more due to writers refusung to let her grow and change than lack of potential for it.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Felicia and Peter come from different walks of life. That reflects the real world. It doesn't mean she's out of place as a Spider-Man character. She's certainly no less out of place than a scientist with metal tentacles, a guy made of sand and a talking reptile.

The latter are bad guys and villains. See most of Peter's love interests make sense. Betty Brant: High School Dropout turned Office Romance. Gwen Stacy: Rich socialite girl Peter met at college, Mary Jane Watson: Fellow working-class queens girl who Aunt May saw as right for Peter, who also yearned for social mobility...

Then among supporting cast. You have Hobie Brown Prowler. He's a window-washer turned criminal who reformed for good. He anticipated Black Cat a lot. But again realistic background and social identity.

And Felicia's lapsing is more due to writers refusing to let her grow and change than lack of potential for it.

That's true and it applies to many Spider-man characters

[Agent Z]

The latter are bad guys and villains. See most of Peter's love interests make sense. Betty Brant: High School Dropout turned Office Romance. Gwen Stacy: Rich socialite girl Peter met at college, Mary Jane Watson: Fellow working-class queens girl who Aunt May saw as right for Peter, who also yearned for social mobility...

Then among supporting cast. You have Hobie Brown Prowler. He's a window-washer turned criminal who reformed for good. He anticipated Black Cat a lot. But again realistic background and social identity.



That's true and it applies to many Spider-man characters

Felicia is a socialite thrill seeker. Her background isn't unrealistic just different from Peter's. If Spider-Man's world can have Doc Ock, Sandman and Lizard it can have a cat burglar.

[Derek Metaltron]

So I am thinking of doing a Valentine’s Day themed CYOA fanfic for Peter/Spider-Man with about eight different love interests to meet, either in their civilian or superhero personas, so I was just wondering what sorts of things fans of Peter/Felicia might want to see in a possible date or romantic setting? Just an experiment I might be trying as a Spider-Man fan...

[Vegeta]

The latter are bad guys and villains. See most of Peter's love interests make sense. Betty Brant: High School Dropout turned Office Romance. Gwen Stacy: Rich socialite girl Peter met at college, Mary Jane Watson: Fellow working-class queens girl who Aunt May saw as right for Peter, who also yearned for social mobility...

Was Gwen rich? I don't know a lot about Police captain salaries but I don't think it's enough for "wealthy socialite" status. Are you sure you are not confusing her with Felicia from the 90's animated series?

Also MJ made the leap to super model/ soap actress after college. I honestly can't even remember what working class jobs she had prior to modeling and marriage. (Waitress maybe? Or was that just the Raimi film?)