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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    I actually would have liked to see Felicia become a semi-permanent part of the DD book. As much as I like her interactions with Peter (when they're written well), having her "broaden her horizons" so to speak would do the character some good imo. Plus, I just liked her and Matt's interactions/chemistry.
    So do I. It's a shame that Waid never integrated Felicia into Daredevil's world, and its a greater shock that Matt Fraction never bothered to use Felicia in Hawkeye's world as she would have been fun to see her interactions with Clint Barton.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member The_Greatest_Username's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    So do I. It's a shame that Waid never integrated Felicia into Daredevil's world, and its a greater shock that Matt Fraction never bothered to use Felicia in Hawkeye's world as she would have been fun to see her interactions with Clint Barton.
    And on top of that, it's also a shame his Defenders was cut short just when Felicia was joining the main cast. It's unfortunate that she's fallen from being a superhero to being definitely evil.

  3. #78
    Spider-Powered Time Lord Spider-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Not to mention the fact that it makes her look like an idiot. She really couldn't tell that that wasn't "her spider" or at least that there was something really wrong with him. No, she just assumes that it was the real SM and now wants revenger, really? Then again, plot-induced stupidity was one of the biggest problems with SSM as a series. Felicia just got it worst of all (the Avengers and MJ weren't portrayed well either).
    Hmm... VERY out of character.

    Felicia is a lot of things, but dumb she ain't!
    SPIDER-MAN: Hey there, my name is Spider-Man and this is my trusty sidekick Wolverine!
    WOLVERINE: *Growls*

  4. #79
    Amazing Member Peter Porker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haruhater View Post
    This looks like as good a place as any to ask:

    What do you people over here at CBR think about Kevin Smith's origin story to her, The Evil That Men Do?

    Beucase I had people tell it to my face that it's supposed to be this godawful thing, and I read people demonizing it, but I fell completely the opposite way about it.

    And I'm new to this particular community, so I would be interested in the opinions of you folks.
    Same here! I liked it a lot!
    First of all: I love the dynamics of Peter and Felicia and this series depicts them very well. I also love that we got to know more about Felicia and I was actually moved by her story, especially because she explains that Spidey is the first man she trusted after she got raped. She grew quite a lot in character and was more than just a sexy maneating nymph. Loved it.
    The story itself had some flaws, I have to admit that I literally skipped over a few dialogues because it was really tiring to read it at times. I think that the plot was confusing and forced and Daredevil saying "What am I, retarded?" made me facepalm so hard my head hurt.
    But overall it wasn't awful and I liked it.

  5. #80
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    I liked it overall as well. I wasn't crazy about the rape-retcon (that's such an overused cliché for female characters in comics). But I loved the Peter/Felicia interactions and there was much more good than bad.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member John Ossie's Avatar
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    I thought the story was good in the sense that it showed that Felicia trusted Peter enough to open up to him about it. And I thought it was told well and the art was quite good.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    I liked it overall as well. I wasn't crazy about the rape-retcon (that's such an overused cliché for female characters in comics). But I loved the Peter/Felicia interactions and there was much more good than bad.
    The thing about the rape being used to explain why Felicia became the Black Cat is that she didn't really need it. In her introduction it was a combination of hero worship for her father who was a thief and having a sense of power and freedom that came with being the Black Cat. Perhaps not the most compelling origin but it was still good and served as a sort of mirror for Peter's origin. Plus the rape retcon made her even more of a Selina Kyle rip-off who in at least two incarnations had violence at the hands of a male lover as her motivation.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    I liked it overall as well. I wasn't crazy about the rape-retcon (that's such an overused cliché for female characters in comics). But I loved the Peter/Felicia interactions and there was much more good than bad.
    The thing about the rape being used to explain why Felicia became the Black Cat is that she didn't really need it. In her introduction it was a combination of hero worship for her father who was a thief and having a sense of power and freedom that came with being the Black Cat. Perhaps not the most compelling origin but it was still good and served as a sort of mirror for Peter's origin. Plus the rape retcon made her even more of a Selina Kyle rip-off who in at least two incarnations had violence at the hands of a male lover as her motivation.

  9. #84
    Amazing Member Peter Porker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheetah View Post
    The thing about the rape being used to explain why Felicia became the Black Cat is that she didn't really need it. In her introduction it was a combination of hero worship for her father who was a thief and having a sense of power and freedom that came with being the Black Cat. Perhaps not the most compelling origin but it was still good and served as a sort of mirror for Peter's origin. Plus the rape retcon made her even more of a Selina Kyle rip-off who in at least two incarnations had violence at the hands of a male lover as her motivation.
    Ah yeah it really is a cliche for female characters, but let's not forget that Peter also experienced rape or sexual assault as a kid.
    I think that rape as a plot device is always a bad choice and indicates lazy writing, I wish it wouldn't happen that often. But for some reason it didn't upset me that much with Felicia.

  10. #85
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porker View Post
    Ah yeah it really is a cliche for female characters, but let's not forget that Peter also experienced rape or sexual assault as a kid.
    I think that rape as a plot device is always a bad choice and indicates lazy writing, I wish it wouldn't happen that often. But for some reason it didn't upset me that much with Felicia.
    The story with Peter Parker and Skip is widely considered out of continuity.

    As it occurred in a Public Service Announcement comic where the point is to inform children what they can do in a horrible situation, that particular story probably doesn't qualify as lazy writing.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Enigmatic Undead's Avatar
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    "It is wrong to assume that art needs the spectator in order to be. The film runs on without any eyes. The spectator cannot exist without it. It ensures his existence." -- James Douglas Morrison

  12. #87
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    I absolutely and utterly love Felicia Hardy. She is my most favorite female Marvel character and always has been. I love her conflicted character, her attitude, her seductive and dangerous nature but at the same time she has a great heart. I pretty much fell in love with her the moment I first saw her in a comic book.

    While the Felicia during Spider-Mans Black suit days was a lot of fun, I definitely prefer the Felicia we got to see in the years before the OMD retcon when she was good friends with the Parkers but still had this awesome sparking chemistry with Peter whenever they were alone. Also because during that time she didnt love just Spider-Man like in the 80s and 90s, she also loved Peter. And it was so sad yet beautiful irony that when she finally loved the man under the mask, she couldnt be with him anymore but kept loving and supporting him nontheless whenever he needed her. Thats the essence of true love in my book. I especially loved her in Mark Millars Marvel Knights: Spider-Man run and I also really loved Smiths The Evil that Men do.

    Its too bad that Marvel hasnt released the latter as TPB yet, I tried to find it on TFAW.com and apparently there is no TP of that story


    After OMD I was so infuriated with Marvel that for the first time in over 15 years I dropped all my Spider-Man books and havent picked up a single issue ever since. I know that Felicia apparently played a larger role again after the retcon and even had a somewhat romantic relationship with Peter but that she didnt know his true identity and I just hated this so much so I didnt even bother to check it out. IMO Marvel really ruined Spider-Mans world with OMD and then they even topped it off with that Superior nonsense (I know there are many who love the book but I feel offended as a Spider-Man fan by the mere concept of it)

    By the way can anybody help me out here? I once saw a couple of pages of a Spider-Man/Black Cat story many years ago but couldnt really find that comic later and am not sure from which comic its from. Its a scene where peter and Felicia are swinging around town and having some fun with each other and Peter keeps thinking to himself how gorgeous and fun Felicia is and how easy it is to get lost in her. Was that Evil that men do? Or another comic? I just cant remember where its from but I really, really want to get that comic. I just dont remember which comic it is and in which TP it might be collected.

  13. #88
    Mighty Member Aruran.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade Wilson View Post
    I absolutely and utterly love Felicia Hardy. She is my most favorite female Marvel character and always has been. I love her conflicted character, her attitude, her seductive and dangerous nature but at the same time she has a great heart. I pretty much fell in love with her the moment I first saw her in a comic book.

    While the Felicia during Spider-Mans Black suit days was a lot of fun, I definitely prefer the Felicia we got to see in the years before the OMD retcon when she was good friends with the Parkers but still had this awesome sparking chemistry with Peter whenever they were alone. Also because during that time she didnt love just Spider-Man like in the 80s and 90s, she also loved Peter. And it was so sad yet beautiful irony that when she finally loved the man under the mask, she couldnt be with him anymore but kept loving and supporting him nontheless whenever he needed her. Thats the essence of true love in my book. I especially loved her in Mark Millars Marvel Knights: Spider-Man run and I also really loved Smiths The Evil that Men do.

    Its too bad that Marvel hasnt released the latter as TPB yet, I tried to find it on TFAW.com and apparently there is no TP of that story


    After OMD I was so infuriated with Marvel that for the first time in over 15 years I dropped all my Spider-Man books and havent picked up a single issue ever since. I know that Felicia apparently played a larger role again after the retcon and even had a somewhat romantic relationship with Peter but that she didnt know his true identity and I just hated this so much so I didnt even bother to check it out. IMO Marvel really ruined Spider-Mans world with OMD and then they even topped it off with that Superior nonsense (I know there are many who love the book but I feel offended as a Spider-Man fan by the mere concept of it)

    By the way can anybody help me out here? I once saw a couple of pages of a Spider-Man/Black Cat story many years ago but couldnt really find that comic later and am not sure from which comic its from. Its a scene where peter and Felicia are swinging around town and having some fun with each other and Peter keeps thinking to himself how gorgeous and fun Felicia is and how easy it is to get lost in her. Was that Evil that men do? Or another comic? I just cant remember where its from but I really, really want to get that comic. I just dont remember which comic it is and in which TP it might be collected.
    Yeah I'm pretty sure you're referring to Evil That Men Do.

  14. #89
    All-New Member Web_Spinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slade Wilson View Post
    I absolutely and utterly love Felicia Hardy. She is my most favorite female Marvel character and always has been. I love her conflicted character, her attitude, her seductive and dangerous nature but at the same time she has a great heart. I pretty much fell in love with her the moment I first saw her in a comic book.

    While the Felicia during Spider-Mans Black suit days was a lot of fun, I definitely prefer the Felicia we got to see in the years before the OMD retcon when she was good friends with the Parkers but still had this awesome sparking chemistry with Peter whenever they were alone. Also because during that time she didnt love just Spider-Man like in the 80s and 90s, she also loved Peter. And it was so sad yet beautiful irony that when she finally loved the man under the mask, she couldnt be with him anymore but kept loving and supporting him nontheless whenever he needed her. Thats the essence of true love in my book. I especially loved her in Mark Millars Marvel Knights: Spider-Man run and I also really loved Smiths The Evil that Men do.

    Its too bad that Marvel hasnt released the latter as TPB yet, I tried to find it on TFAW.com and apparently there is no TP of that story


    After OMD I was so infuriated with Marvel that for the first time in over 15 years I dropped all my Spider-Man books and havent picked up a single issue ever since. I know that Felicia apparently played a larger role again after the retcon and even had a somewhat romantic relationship with Peter but that she didnt know his true identity and I just hated this so much so I didnt even bother to check it out. IMO Marvel really ruined Spider-Mans world with OMD and then they even topped it off with that Superior nonsense (I know there are many who love the book but I feel offended as a Spider-Man fan by the mere concept of it)

    By the way can anybody help me out here? I once saw a couple of pages of a Spider-Man/Black Cat story many years ago but couldnt really find that comic later and am not sure from which comic its from. Its a scene where peter and Felicia are swinging around town and having some fun with each other and Peter keeps thinking to himself how gorgeous and fun Felicia is and how easy it is to get lost in her. Was that Evil that men do? Or another comic? I just cant remember where its from but I really, really want to get that comic. I just dont remember which comic it is and in which TP it might be collected.
    I though of this issue; Spider-man Unlimited #14 - not sure if it's the one you're after but if you never read it it's a fun issue!

    Great cover and art too by Finch

    162767279_spider-man-unlimited-14-cover-black-cat-dr-doom-and-.jpg
    Last edited by Web_Spinner; 05-16-2014 at 07:41 AM.

  15. #90
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    It seems to be that the comic I meant is indeed Evil that Men do. Its been so long that I read it that I didnt really remember if it were this one but I finally some images from it that confirmed that its indeed that book. Unfortunately it seems to be out of print, TFAW.com doesnt even list it. How come Marvel hasnt reprinted it since 2007? I would really love to get it.

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