Will One More Day be a permanent black mark in Spider-Man history ?

[VolcanikTiger86]

What? You mean when Peter hit him when he was brainwashed? Where does Sins Past peg that down as the time? The story seemed intentionally vague about the why and when. And anyway, that was like a three day break-up, half of which Gwen was a prisoner of the kingpin. So, she yelled at Peter, left her cane-wobbling father who had just been hit by a young man to hop Metro North all the way to Westchester to . . . what!?!? Yeah, I know, it's a retcon. They're all kind of like that, but again I don't remember these details being in the story.

That’s because they weren’t in the story but a fan approved a theory surrounding how the details in sins past could be placed. Marvel liked it so much that they actually approved it and made it cannon.

No doubt. It's straight up skin-crawling creepiness. And it is a hard sell to tell readers that Peter and Gwen never slept together over the course of their year-long (or however long it is) relationship that was so involved they were talking marriage . . . but she has sympathy sex with one of her best friend's fathers. It may be possible, but it's not plausible.

I personally think it is plausible at a stretch and I do mean a stretch, if Gwen wanted to wait until they were married before sealing the deal that would explain why she and Peter hadn’t done it but after saving her life caused Gwen to reconsider but she and Norman spent time together and that’s when they had the one night stand which they both agree would be a one time deal (because even they agree it was icky) and then Gwen found out she had something in the oven and didn’t want to burden Peter so she dealt with it herself.

But even if that were not the case it re-frames Gwen's death so as to completely change its meaning. It's one thing to retcon new information into Gwen's story, but anything that alters ASM #121 should be off the table. Editorial's job is to not approve stories like that.

Does it, I don’t think it changes the meaning, adds to it maybe but Norman was a crazy psycho who saw a 2 for 1 special and bought it.

You say that, yet everyone associated with that story regretted it in the following years.
So many writers and editors have ripped that story behind the scenes and interviews as well.

From a creative standpoint it was their worst idea, easily.

That might have something to do with Marvel’s standpoint that Peter has to be a manchild. The originally plan for Sins Past was that Peter would be the father and not Norman but the editor at the time pushed back so JMS gave us Sins Past which is further proof of what a writer can do if they aren’t happy with a story idea.
From a creative standpoint I would say OMD was their worst idea not Sins Past as the fans are still giving them hell about it but that’s just me.

[Mister Mets]

Honestly Sins Past is the permanent black mark in Spider-Man history.

OMD isn't as bad for the actual affect on Spider-Man history, it's a poorly written story. Most people that look back on OMD should really have one thought
"Why on earth did they not make him a teenager when they had the chance?"

I doubt that's the thought of most people.

But the changes to continuity would have been much more significant.

Exactly, which is my main problem with the entire setup. Spider-Man is suppose to be a moral example to people everywhere. A hero who always strives to do the right thing no matter how hard it may be. He should never under any circumstances take the easy, and in this case immoral, way out. He knows the type of creature Mephisto is helping that slime in any way, shape or form no matter the degree of temptation should be an automatic no no.

It wasn't the easy way out. He lost something tremendous.

I think the reason that OMD is so hated is because Peter made a deal with a demon. If it was Loki, or Doom, or The Beyonder who changed time, people wouldn't care. They'd still be angry about the marriage vanishing, but it wouldn't be quite as bad as what we actually got.
In fact, I always thought that Loki erasing the marriage would make more sense. Loki offers to save May because Peter once saved his life. Peter is so desperate for help he agrees. But to confuse and torture Peter, Loki changes History, erasing Peter's marriage and ressurecting Harry Osborn.
LOKI: "The deal is done! Time is changed! The day us up Peter. Prepare to enter a Brand New Day, but I think you'll notice some....differences.

I don't think there was a non-controversial way to retcon the marriage.

That’s because they weren’t in the story but a fan approved a theory surrounding how the details in sins past could be placed. Marvel liked it so much that they actually approved it and made it canon.

The story behind the Sins Past theory...

http://www.cracked.com/article_20793...eators_p2.html

[Sardorim]

I don't agree, Peter lost very little in the deal.

He got a free single life, no wife or child to worry about.
He lobotomized the 616 to forget his unmasking mistake.
He lobotomized Aunt May so she would never know that he played with her life in such selfish ways and ignored her wishes.
He lobotomized MJ so she can forget her happiness and their future child while she eternally suffers and not understanding why.
He lobotomized himself so he wont feel guilty being Spider-Man and sleeping with multiple women.

[Tuck]

The story behind the Sins Past theory...

http://www.cracked.com/article_20793...eators_p2.html

Over the course of a 12,000-word essay,

That's hilarious.

That narrows the time table even more than I did anyway. Now, Gwen has to basically sleep with Norman within 12 hours of that rescue, because her father exonerated Peter the next day. So, daddy's girl left her aged father immediately after that trauma . . . oh forget it.

Even accepting all that (which I don't), it only takes care of "why (and when) would Gwen sleep with Norman?" It doesn't fix the fact that Sins Past turned Gwen into a bad person. Seven months she doesn't tell Peter, pressuring him to get married the whole time. She moved to London because Peter didn't propose immediately after her father's death for crying out loud.

You can forgive the infidelity on the grounds of human weakness. You can't forgive seven months of deception on the grounds of human weakness. Fear is often - if not usually - an element in immoral behavior. That she lacked the courage for seven months to come clean (again, while pressuring Peter to marry her . . . and expecting him to take on the responsibility of raising her kids) - or failing that, breaking it off - is ongoing immoral behavior. She was scared? Too bad.

It needs to be retconned for the character to be salvaged.

[BlitheringToot]

It wasn't the easy way out. He lost something tremendous.

Yeah, but he doesn't remember losing it. At least when Whedon pulled this crap on "Angel," Angel still had to live with the knowledge that he lost the love of his life. Peter learned nothing.

[Tuck]

He lobotomized himself so he wont feel guilty being Spider-Man and sleeping with multiple women.

In fairness, he's only slept with two women since MJ . . . not counting one that occurred during an inexplicable, ginger-ale-fueled blackout.

[Tuck]

Yeah, but he doesn't remember losing it. At least when Whedon pulled this crap on "Angel," Angel still had to live with the knowledge that he lost the love of his life. Peter learned nothing.

Because that wasn't the point of the story.

Of course, that doesn't mean they shouldn't have dealt with it.

[Mister Mets]

Yeah, but he doesn't remember losing it. At least when Whedon pulled this crap on "Angel," Angel still had to live with the knowledge that he lost the love of his life. Peter learned nothing.

A Peter aware of what he lost would probably not be in the right place for Brand New Day. So I can understand why they didn't do it that way.

That's hilarious.

That narrows the time table even more than I did anyway. Now, Gwen has to basically sleep with Norman within 12 hours of that rescue, because her father exonerated Peter the next day. So, daddy's girl left her aged father immediately after that trauma . . . oh forget it.

Even accepting all that (which I don't), it only takes care of "why (and when) would Gwen sleep with Norman?" It doesn't fix the fact that Sins Past turned Gwen into a bad person. Seven months she doesn't tell Peter, pressuring him to get married the whole time. She moved to London because Peter didn't propose immediately after her father's death for crying out loud.

You can forgive the infidelity on the grounds of human weakness. You can't forgive seven months of deception on the grounds of human weakness. Fear is often - if not usually - an element in immoral behavior. That she lacked the courage for seven months to come clean (again, while pressuring Peter to marry her . . . and expecting him to take on the responsibility of raising her kids) - or failing that, breaking it off - is ongoing immoral behavior. She was scared? Too bad.

It needs to be retconned for the character to be salvaged.

Gwen was mad at Peter about his fight with Captain Stacy for several issues, including the one-off Medusa story.

It doesn't justify Sins Past, but Peter wasn't exonerated that quickly.

[Phantom Roxas]

the other reason to tolerate it is because it’s over and done. i didn’t read it, have no desire to and don’t hate the marriage to the point where i would accept anything to remove. it’s there, it’s part of the mythos now and it has no impact on me.

hooray for not judging the hell out of other people for not wanting what you want.

Okay, so you're either opposed to the marriage, or you don't care one way or the other.

And no, it's not "over and done". It was a rushed ego-driven story that prioritized the results over the method. Remind me again how Mephisto didn't come out the victor? My whole criticism of opponents of the marriage was that OMD gives them what they want, and needing to justify the deal with Mephisto is only a factor because, otherwise, the reasons for them getting what they want hold no ground. It's them settling for the bare minimum that I'm disagreeing with.

Cry for justice sucked in 2009 and it sucks now
Young blood sucked in the 90's and it sucked now
One more day sucked in 2007 and it still sucks now!

This story is far past the point where it could have been saved. The thing is that this could have been something good, it didn't need to be a bloated corpse of a status quo shift. What if Mephisto was afraid of May? What if that is why he needed her gone so whatever he had planned couldn't be stopped. That could have made for a good follow up.

Marvel is aware of how much One more day sucked. They know by now and there chosen way of dealing with it is because they don't want to acknowledge it happend. Fair enough as it was critically panned and they lost a bunch of readers. But here is the thing, it could've had a follow-up. Peter could've magically had his memories restored. He finds Mephisto and learns why he did it and realizes he has to stop him. Peter could've been manipulated and controlled. Whatever he did at Doctor Stranges sanctum might've caught Mephistos attention and he decided Peter or at least his daughter was a threat to him. This story might not have been good but it could've end saved.

I was rewatching Linkara's OMD review a few days ago, and that line is still wonderful.

In fact, going off of Cry For Justice, look what we're getting with Convergence. One of his biggest problems there is what happens to Roy, who suffers despite having little to nothing to do with Cry For Justice, which he points out is similar to what happened with Peter in Civil War. And now, Convergence is bringing back Lian.

Points to Convergence, because at least feel more confident about any given story from that than I do about Renew Your Vows.

I don't think there was a non-controversial way to retcon the marriage.

And retconning the marriage was so important because…?

The "Deal with a Devil" aspect was one more crummy layer to it for me, certainly. But honestly every other plot point in OMD made me feel crummy about Marvel.

Really, it's this. Ending the marriage was what caused the controversy in the first place, but making the deal with Mephisto is what threw everyone over the edge, unless, again, you seriously do not care how the marriage ended, just as long as it's taken out of the picture.

[Tuck]

Gwen was mad at Peter about his fight with Captain Stacy for several issues, including the one-off Medusa story.

It doesn't justify Sins Past, but Peter wasn't exonerated that quickly.

It was several issues, but it was a short period of time. I don't recall the Kingpin brainwashing story being a background thing.

And character-wise, Gwen spent the whole time prepared to accept any lame excuse Peter could come up with. That's really more of a fight, with some hyperbolic language, not a break-up.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

OMD is the worst, most damaging story in Spider-Man's history. If Marvel was completely out of ideas of what to do with a married Spider-Man then they should have done a hard reboot rather than a half-assed retcon that doesn't make any sense.

The fact that it's still actively and passionately debated eight years later tells you all you need to know about OMD's place in history.

[Celgress]

Yeah, but he doesn't remember losing it. At least when Whedon pulled this crap on "Angel," Angel still had to live with the knowledge that he lost the love of his life. Peter learned nothing.

Touché, a very valid point Peter took the easy, or coward's, way out in my opinion. The very concept of striking a deal with a super villain forever tarnishes his character, given the context, unless it can later be rectified. Worse he made the terrible choice to save a dying, elderly woman who had accepted her fate unlike say a bus full of school child which would have made his decision more bearable and definitely more understandable, thus presenting a deeper moral dilemma concerning said choice. In fact such a situation, saving a bus full of innocent, young school children from certain doom at the expense of his own romantic/familial happiness, would have further cemented his status as a self sacrificing super hero rather than diminishing it ending OMD on a truly bitter sweet note.

[RD!]

I think it will be forever remembered as the worst part of comics. Nothing since then needed the marriage gone, it undid a lot of development with May, MJ, Peter and Felicia and looks like SW will render it moot in under ten years. I would have liked more stories with the characters as they were personally

[Goodman]

To me the marriage was the black mark in Marvel history. It was a big mistake. One More Day fixed it. The fact that it was a terrible story isn't of lasting significance. There have been a lot of bad stories. But this one paved the way for years of great stories, and the best Spider-Man run in ages.

[Aruran.]

I doubt that's the thought of most people.

But the changes to continuity would have been much more significant.

I was thinking about everyone who will read the story in the future, in case if Secret Wars does turn Peter back into a teenager.