BATMAN #39 Preview/Discussion

[rhymeswithparc]

This issue was pretty great; I loved the villains page and also thought Jason pointing a gun at Clayface was pretty funny (although, I kinda wish Capullo redesigned Mr Freeze). I'm inclined to think Snyder might kill off the Joker in his last issue; the trick is that he's not immortal but he's dying. With the Joker knowing who Batman is and holding nothing back like this, I can't see how he'd continue to exist without publicly outing Batman's identity (which is something I think may happen too).

[TheNewFiftyForum]

I've usually been impressed when Snyder goes big with his Batman stuff, but this issue felt like too much of a mess on it's own. Disjointed, murky storytelling that relies on a lot clearing up in the final issue. It's possible that it will flow much better when read in collected form and having an ending to wrap up at least some of the loose ends, but in it's current form it just didn't work. The backup wrapped perfectly fine though, Nguyen on art is always a seal of quality but I thought the reveal and ending worked great on their own as well. Seems like Tynion has a knack for really dark joker stories.

Well we still don't know what Uriah told Bruce, if he did tell him anything. And this issue was CRAZY, to say the least, can't wait for finale!

Where the hell did he come from? I know that he first showed up back in Talon, but there has never been any indication of Batman knowing who he was. And even if he did, how would Batman know about Uriah hanging around in the water below him?

Good issue and very cringe-enducing (in a good way). One thing I DON'T like is that Penguin is shown using a shotgun to blast the infected. Bearing in mind these are innocent people, you'd think Batman would have gotten Penguin to agree to not use lethal force, or face his wrath later.

Don't forget about Freeze turning people into human icicles as well... That might just have been some artistic licence from Capullo though. I guess the general idea is that everyone in Gotham hates the Bat-villains, and therefore won't attack them as much when under the effects of the Joker virus? Kind of weak.

The man-power it would take to get all that kit out of the Bat-Cave, though. Is he using Joker-zombies as grunt labor?

Watherbreathing grunt labor nonetheless... Maybe he kidnapped Jokerized Aquaman from the hospital and put him to work?

And I think the Joker's deteriorating appearance just might be a hint that he's not immortal after all. Maybe he stumbled across the dionsesium in the cave after he fell off the ledge at the end of DotF and it's either wearing off or is having some kind of adverse reaction to the chemicals that originally turned him into the Joker.

I'm certainly hoping for an explanation in that vein, because otherwise this issue makes even less sense.

Quick notes:
*Could the "serrations" and "leaks" in the Owl nest be references to stuff that's about to happen in Eternal?

*Bane hangs out way too much with the Arkham crowd these days. He should be an interesting contrast to them rather than a regular face.

*I guess that bag full of bombs Joker dropped on himself and Alfred were just some sort of disco lights then?

*As much as I like the subject matter of the big splash page, I don't think it was executed as good as it could have been. Too brightly colored, very off-scale, and in need of thicker inking. I'm still standing by that this book hasn't looked as good after they switched Glapion for Miki.

[Nite-Wing]

Imo I think all of Snyder's stories have connected back to the Joker now. The Court of Owls whole zombie regeneration thing is a corrupted form of the immortality blood that is in the Joker.
I like his Batman stories and its interesting how the quality of Eternal(the benefit of having other writers I suppose) has been going up the quality of Batman hasn't dipped at all.
Snyder continues to drop little nods to Batman history with the Batman 1989 with the Joker Parade. I love call backs like that

Ultimately I think his final Joker story will end with Batman killing the Joker or just not saving him from dying(sorta like Ra's in Batman Begins or Arkham City)

[Sacred Knight]

Just for the record in light of my pretty scathing comments earlier, I don't hate this run, I just think its overrated. I like the way Snyder has weaved the history of this Batman. Court of Owls was good till its conclusion, andZero Year was fun. I'm just not feeling his Joker at all. He hammed it up with him in DOTF, and now these supernatural elements are just way off to me. If it all turns out wrong or some such I'll be glad, but all the same for the course of his usage during this run, Joker has been mightly Gary Sue'd.

In regards to the hand I have no strong feelings either way. It didn't shock me at all, but at the same time I have nothing against the idea. Besides, the hand's right there, stick that sumbitch in some ice, maybe it can be re-attached and he can struggle with regaining strength and mobility.

[upgrayedd]

Just for the record in light of my pretty scathing comments earlier, I don't hate this run, I just think its overrated. I like the way Snyder has weaved the history of this Batman. Court of Owls was good till its conclusion, andZero Year was fun. I'm just not feeling his Joker at all. He hammed it up with him in DOTF, and now these supernatural elements are just way off to me. If it all turns out wrong or some such I'll be glad, but all the same for the course of his usage during this run, Joker has been mightly Gary Sue'd.

In regards to the hand I have no strong feelings either way. It didn't shock me at all, but at the same time I have nothing against the idea. Besides, the hand's right there, stick that sumbitch in some ice, maybe it can be re-attached and he can struggle with regaining strength and mobility.

or Batman could ask Aquaman if he still has the hook hand available.

[JBH3]

Good issue and very cringe-enducing (in a good way). One thing I DON'T like is that Penguin is shown using a shotgun to blast the infected. Bearing in mind these are innocent people, you'd think Batman would have gotten Penguin to agree to not use lethal force, or face his wrath later.



The problem (for me personally anyway) is that ALL of Snyder's main arcs have an ambiguous ending in them somewhere.

Court of Owls: LINCOLN MARCH IS BRUCE WAYNE'S BROTHER!!!!!!!!

Except maybe not. Maybe the Court just told him he was.

Death of the Family: BATMAN LEARNED WHO JOKER WAS BEFORE HE WAS THE JOKER!!!

Except maybe not. That might have just been a bluff...that the reason for using isn't explained. I mean, did he EXPECT Joker to be so distracted that he'd fall off a cliff before Batman could finish revealing what he knew?

Zero Year Red Hood Arc: HOW THE RED HOOD BECAME THE JOKER!!!!

Except maybe not. Maybe that was just a minion acting as a decoy who fell into the chemicals.

If it was just ONE of these things, it'd be something, but how can you get invested in an idea if a writer won't fully commit to it? I would have just been happy if Batman DID know who the Joker was. I don't personally need to know. It could be something kept between the two of them for some reason, and there'd be some nice symmetry NOW especially since Joker know's who Batman is.

Very good points here. I feel like the game changing event can't essentially be Alf losing his hand, endgame has to MEAN something other than a neat little story title.

[rhymeswithparc]

Just for the record in light of my pretty scathing comments earlier, I don't hate this run, I just think its overrated. I like the way Snyder has weaved the history of this Batman. Court of Owls was good till its conclusion, andZero Year was fun. I'm just not feeling his Joker at all. He hammed it up with him in DOTF, and now these supernatural elements are just way off to me. If it all turns out wrong or some such I'll be glad, but all the same for the course of his usage during this run, Joker has been mightly Gary Sue'd.

In regards to the hand I have no strong feelings either way. It didn't shock me at all, but at the same time I have nothing against the idea. Besides, the hand's right there, stick that sumbitch in some ice, maybe it can be re-attached and he can struggle with regaining strength and mobility.

I too think Snyder is doing some things for shock value but that's inherent with the horror genre and that's where he excels; he stepped away from that for Zero Year and, past the Doctor Death stuff, I found his work to be too wordy and boring. Cutting off Alfred's hand was a bit much but that's exactly what he promised. Everything about this story is not something anyone would expect and I think almost no other title has me as excited to read the next issue. I also really like his Joker too because it's always about having Batman fight his way to the Joker and this interpretation is making that chase really fun to read (for me).

As for the hand, I think maybe the spinal fluid chemical might have something to help with that. Or Alfred's just gonna be crippled for the time being.

[JBH3]

I am a fan of this whole entire run but its not without its warts.

For me the backup Tynion story in issue #39 is a smack in the face. In the end its just wasted pages, it advances nothing and is like a Joker "joke" breaking the 4th wall...like jokes on you readers for assuming you would get a story here that surprises you. The way it ended was in fact no surprise because it just toes the line of leading the reader to some imagined ending that right, wrong, or indifferent to some (i.e. the joker being a demon, immortal, etc.) could have lasting changes. Instead we get a story which ultimately does nothing....

[rhymeswithparc]

I am a fan of this whole entire run but its not without its warts.

For me the backup Tynion story in issue #39 is a smack in the face. In the end its just wasted pages, it advances nothing and is like a Joker "joke" breaking the 4th wall...like jokes on you readers for assuming you would get a story here that surprises you. The way it ended was in fact no surprise because it just toes the line of leading the reader to some imagined ending that right, wrong, or indifferent could have lasting changes. Instead we get a story which ultimately does nothing....

It is a reference to The Killing Joke. I think Snyder is trying to tell his definitive Joker story (like Moore did) with Endgame and the origin is a part of that. Instead of rehashing TKJ and giving one origin, they write 4; and then take a jab at it in those last few lines of dialogue. It serves a very similar purpose in this as the scenes in Killing Joke do.

EDIT: I agree they're pretty forgetful though but I blame the art and storytelling style a lot more.

[M L A]

I think it's coming. I think they've been persuaded to stay on the title longer than originally planned. I give both Snyder and Capullo another year, and that's it for them on Batman. Maybe less.

I think they said #50 is their last.

[sicsexsix]

The end of this issue got me thinking of the Tabula Rasa arc from Gotham Knights, when they were still teasing Bruce & Bane as half brothers (which part of me was actually hoping for at the time. And I still like that better than the possibility of Lincoln March as Bruce's brother). I just think Bane works better as a character that walks the line, out for himself, but with a code of honor that commands respect, better than he does as a straight up villain (though I'd never want to see him as a full-on good guy). I doubt he'll do it, but Snyder has a real chance to re-establish Bane as the big time player he once was, rather than jobbing him out as enhancement talent. The guy is supposed to be a master strategist, second only to Batman, and I'm really hoping he takes the lead at some point next issue & concocts a plan that outdoes whatever Bruce comes up with. He kicked the hell out of Joker during No Man's Land, and it'll be nice to see them face off again. Whatever happens next, I hope it positions him as a major supporting character when the series resumes in June. Like I said, not a good guy per se, but not "just another super villain" either. Painting some of Batman's most iconic rogues in shades of grey has been occurring with more frequency lately, and why not? They've been "bad guys" for years, spinning the same schemes for the same tired goals, and planting them on the dividing line, or at least a little closer to it, makes them interesting all over again.

[Naked Bat]

I've been trying for a while not to criticize snyder's work as much as I did in the past. But it really reads like ban fan fiction with terrible characterization and shock value moments. I get that he's trying to humanize Batman, but does he have to be scared in every single story while telling us he trained himself not to be? The Alfred thing feels gratuitous, especially considering Julia's reaction when she tells bruce about it. The supervillain team-up doesn't make sense at all. I don't buy for a second that they would help batman that easily like that. I did like the joker parade though.

[mike627]

Enjoyed this issue.Now,I've been reading how some people are saying Joker went too far,I think he crossed that line several years ago in The Killing Joke.There is no such thing as too far with him.Bionic hand Alfred FTW!!

[theonetruebatman]

For all the goodwill that The Dark Knight Rises created for the character of Bane Snyder has really killed that mystique by making him nothing more than just another mook in a mask between Batman Eternal and now this story. I wish we could really make him someone to be feared again. They should have reinegrated his time with Ra's in the comics into his back story for the New 52. This guy broke the bat for christ's sake. I miss the days where he was cracking mobsters heads in a bid for underworld domination. The Arkham War storyline with him and Talon was such a wasted opportunity and the aftermath was too easily dispatched. It doesn't help that the Arkham games have made him just another meathead as well. Knightfall is my favorite ever comic arc because when I was 7 and in the hospital that storyline was in full swing and it made my love for Batman multiply infinitely. Such a drag to see him relegated to the D list.

The arc in Gotham Knights where he and Bruce thought they may be brothers although somewhat contrived was beautiful. I wish someone would show the character the level of TLC. Gail Simone did the character Justice in Secret Six as well until she was forced to put him back on Venom and totally hamstring a reason why he was going to kill all of Gotham's heroes after he himself was a fan of Grayson becoming Batman. Ugh....so frustrating.

[napolid]

*I guess that bag full of bombs Joker dropped on himself and Alfred were just some sort of disco lights then?

I'm pretty sure he just blew the door to the cave open, so he could drive all the trophies out.