BATMAN #39 Preview/Discussion

[cranger]

This issue (writing) was not perfect, far from it, a lot of stuff felt tossed together, maybe just one idea too many being squeezed in. However, overall it still worked and was entertaining. This is one of the few books that has me literally anticipating the next issue and I really hope next months conclusion is not a let down. I felt the back-up story really worked, too.

[bobellis75]

This issue (writing) was not perfect, far from it, a lot of stuff felt tossed together, maybe just one idea too many being squeezed in. However, overall it still worked and was entertaining. This is one of the few books that has me literally anticipating the next issue and I really hope next months conclusion is not a let down. I felt the back-up story really worked, too.

I somewhat agree...and at the same time, I felt like a lot of the arc kind of came together and clicked. But some of it did feel very rushed. It doesn't seem like it's ready to conclude in the next issue.

[bobellis75]

Just for the record in light of my pretty scathing comments earlier, I don't hate this run, I just think its overrated. I like the way Snyder has weaved the history of this Batman. Court of Owls was good till its conclusion, andZero Year was fun. I'm just not feeling his Joker at all. He hammed it up with him in DOTF, and now these supernatural elements are just way off to me. If it all turns out wrong or some such I'll be glad, but all the same for the course of his usage during this run, Joker has been mightly Gary Sue'd.

In regards to the hand I have no strong feelings either way. It didn't shock me at all, but at the same time I have nothing against the idea. Besides, the hand's right there, stick that sumbitch in some ice, maybe it can be re-attached and he can struggle with regaining strength and mobility.

replying to the bolded bit...I agree. I think Snyder has honestly had kind of a hard time sealing the deal on all the arcs, really. There has been great setup and then it feels like there always needs to be one more issue before they conclude. I always feel like, when the concluding issue is coming up "How the heck is this all going to wrap up in just one more issue."

He's had a great run overall. I just feel like some of the stuff, in the end, can fall a little flat.

[sicsexsix]

For all the goodwill that The Dark Knight Rises created for the character of Bane Snyder has really killed that mystique by making him nothing more than just another mook in a mask between Batman Eternal and now this story. I wish we could really make him someone to be feared again. They should have reinegrated his time with Ra's in the comics into his back story for the New 52. This guy broke the bat for christ's sake. I miss the days where he was cracking mobsters heads in a bid for underworld domination. The Arkham War storyline with him and Talon was such a wasted opportunity and the aftermath was too easily dispatched. It doesn't help that the Arkham games have made him just another meathead as well. Knightfall is my favorite ever comic arc because when I was 7 and in the hospital that storyline was in full swing and it made my love for Batman multiply infinitely. Such a drag to see him relegated to the D list.

The arc in Gotham Knights where he and Bruce thought they may be brothers although somewhat contrived was beautiful. I wish someone would show the character the level of TLC. Gail Simone did the character Justice in Secret Six as well until she was forced to put him back on Venom and totally hamstring a reason why he was going to kill all of Gotham's heroes after he himself was a fan of Grayson becoming Batman. Ugh....so frustrating.

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling that way, nor the only one who enjoyed the hell out of that arc from Gotham Knights. Like I said, having Bruce & Bane turn out to be half brothers is still an idea I prefer over Bruce & March being brothers. I think Snyder's run has been great, but these missed opportunities with Bane has been very frustrating.

[bat1987]

I somewhat agree...and at the same time, I felt like a lot of the arc kind of came together and clicked. But some of it did feel very rushed. It doesn't seem like it's ready to conclude in the next issue.

Well, it is a double sized issue, so here's hoping it lives up to the hype

[adkal]

In an interview today, Snyder said the wounds on Joker were from the cave's defenses as he broke in. This kinda sums up how even though the art is great, it often feels like key info is left out.. I doubt anyone would have made that leap and figured out that is how he was wounded on one very specific part of the body.

Yeah, that's pretty lame. Stuff like that should be explained on page.

I didn't have an issue with that bit - to me, Capullo made it pretty clear Joker had to go through some rough things (hence the torn tee) in order to get into the cave...having said that, however, where he pulled the DPV from, I don't know (unless he used one of Hermione's spells (or had it stashed somewhere accessible from quite a while ago)).

The bit that got me might not seem like much but it just didn't sit well with me: Batman's 'sigh' when Julia tells him Alfred's safe. I know it's a sigh of relief, but I think it would have worked so much better as a visual rather than what came across, to me, as something more resigned and even annoyed.

[manofsteel1979]

Ok, if the Joker isn't immortal....then there really needs to be an explaination why Batman doesn't kill him already beyond the usual. Between killing Jason, crippling Barbara and now what he did to Alfred...It's hard to see why Batman doesn't end his existence once and for all. So, yes the immortal thing is a clever way to explain the why. It doesn't really change anything about the character really, just explains why he has kept coming back from certain death so many times over 70 years.

[AUScowboy]

LOVED THIS ISSH! Best out of Snyder's run IMO. I had no problem figuring out it was some defense beneath the cave that maimed Joker's face..pretty obvious. A lot happening off panel but that dosent bother me as long as the Uriah and the other loose threads are tied up. Capullo villain redesigns are flippin awesome looking (especially Croc and Bane), I keeping flipping through looking to spot all the little flourishes an easter eggs. That parade spread man, Capullo seriously dominates when it comes to visually interpreting superhero stories.

[JBH3]

Ok, if the Joker isn't immortal....then there really needs to be an explaination why Batman doesn't kill him already beyond the usual. Between killing Jason, crippling Barbara and now what he did to Alfred...It's hard to see why Batman doesn't end his existence once and for all. So, yes the immortal thing is a clever way to explain the why. It doesn't really change anything about the character really, just explains why he has kept coming back from certain death so many times over 70 years.

Great post. I agree with this 100%.

...and even if they were to alter Joker's background I am ok. He's a 1940's character who could use a re-imagining.

[JBatmanFan05]

Batman doesn't kill. That Joker has hurt those close to him doesn't change that. Why should his loved ones mean more than other people's loved ones? Batman didn't kill Joker out of revenge for Mr Joe Average's dead family and he won't do it for his own. Batman sticking to his code doesn't require further explanation for me.

[Dzetoun]

Batman doesn't kill. That Joker has hurt those close to him doesn't change that. Why should his loved ones mean more than other people's loved ones? Batman didn't kill Joker out of revenge for Mr Joe Average's dead family and he won't do it for his own. Batman sticking to his code doesn't require further explanation for me.

Well, we aren't going to get any agreement on that one. Some (such as me, I do confess) will never find any of Batman's excuses believable, or really even admirable. Others will.

Of course, the actual truth of the matter is that it comes down to what DC thinks will make them the most money.

[JBatmanFan05]

Well, we aren't going to get any agreement on that one. Some (such as me, I do confess) will never find any of Batman's excuses believable, or really even admirable. Others will.

We must remember we don't have to agree with Batman or admire his choices. It's a free country and Batman has chosen the code he's going to live by on the specific subject of murder and killing.

Some act like it's a clear settled matter of moral (legal, ethical, etc) philosophy (that Batman should kill or should not kill)...it isn't (!!!!) and so I tend to especially understand Batman's code because there is no clear right or wrong answer.

[Dzetoun]

We must remember we don't have to agree with Batman or admire his choices. It's a free country and Batman has chosen the code he's going to live by on the specific subject of murder and killing.

Some act like it's a clear settled matter of moral (legal, ethical, etc) philosophy (that Batman should kill or should not kill)...it isn't (!!!!) and so I tend to especially understand Batman's code because there is no clear right or wrong answer.

Chuckle. Actually, Batman has no rights whatsoever. Nor does Joker. That's why it's safe to use fiction to debate such points.

Having said that, yours is certainly a fair enough position. I would just say that the matter of agreement (moral philosophy) is different than the matter of behavioral believability (a question of artistic effectiveness). I, for instance, find the latter to be the chief problem. Granted we are talking about a mentally ill man who dresses like a bat, but it shatters believability that he would refrain from killing the Joker after both Barbara and Jason, no matter his moral code.

[JBatmanFan05]

Granted we are talking about a mentally ill man who dresses like a bat, but it shatters believability that he would refrain from killing the Joker after both Barbara and Jason, no matter his moral code.

Fair enough. Batman's inflexible stubbornness on the matter has always been believable for me because he's displayed it again and again...like with Barbara (who's walking), Jason (who is alive), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...just a huge tapestry of Batman seeming quite sure about his code in the face of questions and temptation. Whether mentally ill or perfectly sane, he sticks to that code.

[ispacehead]

Batman doesn't kill. That Joker has hurt those close to him doesn't change that. Why should his loved ones mean more than other people's loved ones? Batman didn't kill Joker out of revenge for Mr Joe Average's dead family and he won't do it for his own. Batman sticking to his code doesn't require further explanation for me.

This is very much my mindset. It simply isn't in his character.

That said, I would enjoy a story that gave us further insight into Bruce's stubborn adherence to this code beyond the death of his parents.

Perhaps something that happened during his studies. An avoidable death that had consequences great enough to affirm his decision.

One can only wonder about the longevity of a ruthless Batman that lacked the moral nobility that seems to be one of the character's most noteworthy traits.