BATMAN #39 Preview/Discussion

[Aioros22]

For all the goodwill that The Dark Knight Rises created for the character of Bane Snyder has really killed that mystique by making him nothing more than just another mook in a mask between Batman Eternal and now this story. I wish we could really make him someone to be feared again. They should have reinegrated his time with Ra's in the comics into his back story for the New 52. This guy broke the bat for christ's sake. I miss the days where he was cracking mobsters heads in a bid for underworld domination. The Arkham War storyline with him and Talon was such a wasted opportunity and the aftermath was too easily dispatched. It doesn't help that the Arkham games have made him just another meathead as well. Knightfall is my favorite ever comic arc because when I was 7 and in the hospital that storyline was in full swing and it made my love for Batman multiply infinitely. Such a drag to see him relegated to the D list.

The arc in Gotham Knights where he and Bruce thought they may be brothers although somewhat contrived was beautiful. I wish someone would show the character the level of TLC. Gail Simone did the character Justice in Secret Six as well until she was forced to put him back on Venom and totally hamstring a reason why he was going to kill all of Gotham's heroes after he himself was a fan of Grayson becoming Batman. Ugh....so frustrating.

It`s telling that Arkham War is the only good storyline about Bane in the reboot. The rest is contrived-out of character-even out of character reboot-garbage.

I can`t complain much in Bat terms, considering the reboot did development wonders to Jason Todd across the board and I more than appreciate it. But it saddens me they can`t equally see how there`s more money in writing Bane as he should be, instead of just another crook, just a meathead. There`s no character value or market to be made out of it. There`s nothing to buy.

Bane is everything this characterization hardly is. He`s a mastermind, with his own code of honor, who is this physical match of Batman with the hubris of also being able to physically break him with a substance called Venom. That`s it. It`s like DC refuses to make some more.

(The movie made a general error thought, and that was make Bane second in command to Talia. He should have been the other one getting out of the pit and be the mastermind. The mask being a weakness was also contrived as it makes both him and Bruce just look silly-bad).

[AlexanderLuthor]

It`s telling that Arkham War is the only good storyline about Bane in the reboot. The rest is contrived-out of character-even out of character reboot-garbage.

I can`t complain much in Bat terms, considering the reboot did development wonders to Jason Todd across the board and I more than appreciate it. But it saddens me they can`t equally see how there`s more money in writing Bane as he should be, instead of just another crook, just a meathead. There`s no character value or market to be made out of it. There`s nothing to buy.

Bane is everything this characterization hardly is. He`s a mastermind, with his own code of honor, who is this physical match of Batman with the hubris of also being able to physically break him with a substance called Venom. That`s it. It`s like DC refuses to make some more.

(The movie made a general error thought, and that was make Bane second in command to Talia. He should have been the other one getting out of the pit and be the mastermind. The mask being a weakness was also contrived as it makes both him and Bruce just look silly-bad).

Bane has been ruined as a character, but that happened long ago. Such promise as the one who finally broke the Bat and now he is just another stooge. But I could say the same with Croc, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Penguin and half of the rogues gallery. I HATE when a writer has them jobbed because it's a Joker story (same thing happened to all of them in DoTF) or they are "teamed-up" with Batman. It lessens their characters far more than it builds the Joker up. With respect to the Joker, he has gone from the personification of chaos to the most well organized, planned out villain there is in comics. He's simply playing chess with Snyder's usual stupid Batman. Remember back when Batman would face insurmountable odds, but win because of a cunning plan. Not this Batman - he's spent 39 issues stumbling from one mistake to the other. The Joker is back, knows where the cave is, knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Bruce leaves the cave completely undefended. Awesome. I've enjoyed a lot of Snyder's run, but this is slowly becoming my least favorite Batman ever - he's a dick, he's unprepared, he's let Gotham burn how many times now? At least 3 times in the last 2 years. Snyder is just a Michael Bay film writer - it's big, it's dumb and eventually the set-up gets turned into the ridiculous by the finish

*Edit - I will say that I thought the back-ups came to a really nice, cool conclusion. Far better than the main story

*Edit 2 - I still think this is all an after-effect of the Scarecrow toxin from the first issue. Otherwise, Alfred losing a hand would have been much more hyped. None of this is real - but it's still bad

[Vil_Dee]

Who cares about Bane already, where's the Condiment King?!

You know we're never gonna get conformation on whether Joker's immortal or not. We'll never know whether he's a Highlander or if his regenerative ability is a recent turn of events. Although considering how his teeth always grew back after they were knocked out, I'd say he's had that ability at least since he plopped into the chemical vat.

Everyone's all up about Joker getting "killed" at the end. F that. Sheet got to go down, if they're talking about all this transformative Bat blah blah. How does Joker "dying" do any of that? What would that do besides make people who actually like the character go "So when's the Joker coming back?" every month. Gotham has got to be totally leveled, or Batman and Joker thelma and louise it, or something.

[SickAlice]

Hearing Trust by Prince in my head during the parade scene. This is enjoyable but wow is it meta. The second act was poignant.

[The Kid]

This is very much my mindset. It simply isn't in his character.

That said, I would enjoy a story that gave us further insight into Bruce's stubborn adherence to this code beyond the death of his parents.

Perhaps something that happened during his studies. An avoidable death that had consequences great enough to affirm his decision.

One can only wonder about the longevity of a ruthless Batman that lacked the moral nobility that seems to be one of the character's most noteworthy traits.

It'd like if they blended in some Golden Age Batman into his backstory. Maybe early in his career while traveling the world, he used a gun and even had killed but developed his rule as a result of his journey. It would be an interesting story to read for sure

[Maxpower00044]

http://m.ign.com/articles/2015/02/26...redacteds-hand

GN: Does Batman know the definitive truth about the Joker? Does he know if the Joker is this immortal pale man, or if he's just a mortal man playing a trick?

Snyder: You will get a definitive answer in the story. I wouldn't necessarily say that Boone will give him that answer. You'll have to wait and see if that's where it comes from or not.

That said, yes, I would not want the story to end with you in limbo about whether or not what the Joker's claiming to be true is true. So you will get a pretty definitive answer.

[Naked Bat]

I can't open the link where I am, but didn't he say in other interviews that he intended to let that part ambiguous?

[Aioros22]

Bane has been ruined as a character, but that happened long ago. Such promise as the one who finally broke the Bat and now he is just another stooge

The decline was certainly already there (Batman&Robin being the first nail) but as the first clean loss to Batman may have peg him down a nod, and we all knew it would, we still had consistantly better material for him. From his encounter with Ras where he places the Demon`s Head in check to his time with the Secret Six, right before the reboot, which was mostly well handled. In terms of games you had the horrible first game, but Origins made up for it by having Bane acting as if the Joker was beneath his concerns (which he is).

The problem with Bane (Mr Snyder and co!) is now upping a characterization that is too connected with glaring flaws in physicability. Either is the Venom addiction (except that he kicked it off) or a breathing mask dependence (contrived because it paints Bruce as that dumb) or now Venom making him stronger and smarter (here`s the dependance of his character again).

This is a character that just like Batman has been conquering himself, except unlike him, he`s done so out of nothing but fire. From prison. He`s given nothing out of what he takes. A character like this doesn`t have glaring weakness staring in your face (you willl...*breaths* have my permittion ta die *breaths* when I say so..mista Wayne) or addictions of which he`s dependable of. A character like this despises addictions and lacking control of his own-self!

But I could say the same with Croc, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, Penguin and half of the rogues gallery. I HATE when a writer has them jobbed because it's a Joker story (same thing happened to all of them in DoTF) or they are "teamed-up" with Batman

I don`t mind team-ups if they have something to say in terms of dynamics. But I agree with everything else. That`s one of the main reasons I don`t care - or want to, about the Joker. Interesting (but not really original - and we all know it) premise for a character, whose main gripping stories were told a long time ago.

It lessens their characters far more than it builds the Joker up. With respect to the Joker, he has gone from the personification of chaos to the most well organized, planned out villain there is in comics. He's simply playing chess with Snyder's usual stupid Batman. Remember back when Batman would face insurmountable odds, but win because of a cunning plan. Not this Batman - he's spent 39 issues stumbling from one mistake to the other. The Joker is back, knows where the cave is, knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Bruce leaves the cave completely undefended.

I remember one or two posters when DOTF was coming out, that didn`t like Jason`s snark at Bruce about it. Probably the same who claim he`s not snarky enought in general but to me, in a funny way, Jason has been kind of like the outsiders voice about Bruce`s stubburness to the readers, and not only. He`s like the 4th Wall link when he`s with the family because more often than not, he`s snarking at what most of us is wondering and I`m not sure it`s not done on purpose.

At this point thought, even Batman sacrífices himself as a character to almighty Joker in order to make some sense. After DOTF, Bruce should have had the cave wired with better/new protection. I guess some can claim he`s been too busy with Eternal and bringing Damian back (who`s not here so....) but with with having at least two members of the family who hang out in the speciality of hardware and software you would think it would be a priority for some off-weekends.

[JBatmanFan05]

I hope Snyder tries to work with other villains like Bane to give them a Joker-like treatment of making them a formidable threat again.

I hope Snyder tackles Bane, Two-Face, Scarecrow and other main rogues. Give fans a modern story starring these characters...to remember.

[adkal]

I hope Snyder tries to work with other villains like Bane to give them a Joker-like treatment of making them a formidable threat again.

I hope Snyder tackles Bane, Two-Face, Scarecrow and other main rogues. Give fans a modern story starring these characters...to remember.

Unless he does this some other time, you're not likely to see anything like it since it looks like he's leaving in 11 issues' time...

[bat1987]

He is? Thought he always said he would be here after 50 if "the fans would have him"? I could be wrong ofc.

I hope Snyder tries to work with other villains like Bane to give them a Joker-like treatment of making them a formidable threat again.

I hope Snyder tackles Bane, Two-Face, Scarecrow and other main rogues. Give fans a modern story starring these characters...to remember.

Could have sworn that Snyder said he has a story for 2 face. That being said would love Bane and Scarecrow one too. Capullo drawn Batman vs Bane would be amazing.

[JBatmanFan05]

He is? Thought he always said he would be here after 50 if "the fans would have him"? I could be wrong ofc.

Nope, that's what I read as well.

He's done stories for Lincoln/Owls, Joker, Clayface, James Jr, Architect, and Riddler....and that's more or less about it. Three of those are the classic rogues that Batman fans love. So he has room to tackle other classic rogues.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Anyone watch DCAA? Snyder said he is making new villains for post-con, not sure how I feel about it but we'll see. I do hope he stays up until #100 at least.

As for the issue, wow! all kinds of crazy, love it! Cyborg Alfred? That would be great! I dont think Joker will actually be immortal myself, but it would be interesting is he was. I will go ahead and say it Endgame is one of the best Joker I have read so far, if the finale holds up, it might overtake TKJ.

[ispacehead]

I can't open the link where I am, but didn't he say in other interviews that he intended to let that part ambiguous?

I remember reading something like that as well, though I don't recall his exact wording.

I think doing something like this to Joker is too big to leave it ambiguous, which probably means this is something that Joker has done to himself especially for this occasion.

The issue 50 news is awesome for me. I hadn't heard that.

[JBatmanFan05]

Anyone watch DCAA? Snyder said he is making new villains for post-con, not sure how I feel about it but we'll see. I do hope he stays up until #100 at least.

I want him to stay too. If we liked Court of Owls and/or Lincoln, we should trust that Snyder will create cool new villains. Backwards Man was in Special Tec #27...wonder if that might be one.

I will go ahead and say it Endgame is one of the best Joker I have read so far, if the finale holds up, it might overtake TKJ.

Really enjoying it, lives up to blockbuster level...but won't overtake TKJ for me. But these are the best Joker stories since Dini's Slayride & Morrison's run...Endgame and Death of the Family. Snyder finally made Joker a main villain in arcs again...not just a side villain in Hush or Hurt's tale (I'm not saying Joker can't be great as a side villain, he absolutely can, but you want to see him as the main villain too).