New Avengers 30 *spoilers*

[celeherald]

the marvel wiki on rabum alal says-
Supposedly Rabum Alal's birth on an alternate Earth caused the early heat death of that universe. This gap in the multiverse resulted in the other universes in the multiverse crashing into each other thus causing the Incursions.

this makes it sound like rabum alal is not necessarily evil and not necessarily responsible. not sure where this info is accurate at this point.

Though it would seem that the Black Priests think differently. Evil is a nebulous term possibly, but I don't think Hickman would make Rabum Alal be non-important to the story.

[Biclopcicle]

Do we have any idea who this character is?

Most likely a sidera Maris with the mapmaker home base in the background

[Iron Maiden]

Oh, sure. But Uatu's own baby... and baby mama!... have been featured much more prominently in recent years.

I've made it a persoal practice to ignore Fraction's FF run. my Avatar is a clue.

[Biclopcicle]

To get the full picture of what's going on, I'd say start collecting new avengers vol.3 and start from #1. Read the first 3-4 issues, then go to Avengers vol. 5 #1. Then they go in parallel until Infinity (the reading order for Infinity is listed on the last page of each issue). Then read the gap issues in each series until Time Runs Out. I think they are collecting the TRO with both avengers and NA in each volume. The gap issues are important because in Avengers you learn about the time gem and why cap goes nuts after the Illuminati (before he ages). In NA, you learn about the Illuminati observing the multiverse. They learn more about the mapmakers and the black priests. Strange goes on a side quest of his own

...btw, why is strange speaking the Black Priest words of power when he returns from the Sinner's market in NA#18? And yet he doesn't use them at all when facing the great society? Do you need a black priest helmet to wield the words of power? Did he somehow learn them in the sinners market???

[Prof. Warren]

I didn't care much for this issue. Too much of an info dump. And at this point, even having read Hickman's Avengers from the start, I'm a little fuzzy on all the players - Ivory Kings, Mapmakers, Beyonders, etc.. Still, this is the first issue since the big end run began that's left me cold and I'm still pumped to see how the grand finale leads into SW.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Where do you guys spot Watchers in this issue?

Not the the bald guy (Master Order) "with" the weird cape (Lord Chaos).

Also stellar issue. About time we saw the Odyssey of Pym, and the reason he is chosen... by shrinking down he can get greater understanding of the physics and traverse Multiverse without getting lost. (Supposedly this kind of "science" will also be featured in the upcoming Ant-Man movie.)

Just for fun side note, I guess the guy without his head in the frame is In-Betweener, judging from his cloth.

[Punisher007]

Can we get this so-called "epic" story over with already? It's so dull, boring, tedious, and uninteresting. "Oh all hope is lost, there's no hope, give up because no hope remains," WE GET IT Hickman. You've been saying that there's "no hope" for YEARS now. And by "saying" I mean that you've utterly failed at the whole "show don't tell" thing. Instead of giant exposition dumps, how about you SHOW us why that is, like you should have been doing throughout your run. Instead you just throw in some dialogue about how "nothing will work" and expect that to be enough. Guess what, it isn't.

[Captain M]

I think 4 months would have been enough for Hickman to tell his "Time Runs Out" story.

[jphamlore]

And the parallels to Sumerian mythology appear to continue. This time, it's the flood myth.

The gods, the Beyonders, have made a decision to use the equivalent of the waters of the primordial chaos to sweep away what I am guessing is what they view to be corrupted. Instead of waters everything is just disintegrated into the great white no space.

Note in various flood myths sometimes the Noah equivalent is not told by the god(s) of the coming of the flood, he overhears it by accident. That does raise of question of whether Pym will be more involved than we think in the building of the ark, Battleworld.

From the perspective of the flood myth, the Beyonders might not be evil either. Perhaps the Multiverse has been corrupted. A good candidate given when Secret Wars will start to be released is something to do with Ultron, especially given the events of Age of Ultron and its aftermath.

[celeherald]

Can we get this so-called "epic" story over with already? It's so dull, boring, tedious, and uninteresting. "Oh all hope is lost, there's no hope, give up because no hope remains," WE GET IT Hickman. You've been saying that there's "no hope" for YEARS now. And by "saying" I mean that you've utterly failed at the whole "show don't tell" thing. Instead of giant exposition dumps, how about you SHOW us why that is, like you should have been doing throughout your run. Instead you just throw in some dialogue about how "nothing will work" and expect that to be enough. Guess what, it isn't.

I totally disagree, he's kept the focus on the characters and their attempts to control and fight the end. I'd rather not have an issue or two of Pym traveling with the Builders and seeing things die, this format's been great since the run started.

[UltimateTy]

Can we get this so-called "epic" story over with already? It's so dull, boring, tedious, and uninteresting. "Oh all hope is lost, there's no hope, give up because no hope remains," WE GET IT Hickman. You've been saying that there's "no hope" for YEARS now. And by "saying" I mean that you've utterly failed at the whole "show don't tell" thing. Instead of giant exposition dumps, how about you SHOW us why that is, like you should have been doing throughout your run. Instead you just throw in some dialogue about how "nothing will work" and expect that to be enough. Guess what, it isn't.

Didn't he show enough in this issue?

[scribbleMind]

The vast extent of my hype has proven that it's certainly enough for me.

[Mr. Brightside]

To get the full picture of what's going on, I'd say start collecting new avengers vol.3 and start from #1. Read the first 3-4 issues, then go to Avengers vol. 5 #1. Then they go in parallel until Infinity (the reading order for Infinity is listed on the last page of each issue). Then read the gap issues in each series until Time Runs Out. I think they are collecting the TRO with both avengers and NA in each volume. The gap issues are important because in Avengers you learn about the time gem and why cap goes nuts after the Illuminati (before he ages). In NA, you learn about the Illuminati observing the multiverse. They learn more about the mapmakers and the black priests. Strange goes on a side quest of his own

...btw, why is strange speaking the Black Priest words of power when he returns from the Sinner's market in NA#18? And yet he doesn't use them at all when facing the great society? Do you need a black priest helmet to wield the words of power? Did he somehow learn them in the sinners market???

Thanks for the response!!!!
Do I HAVE to read Infinity? (I really dont wanna)

[Biclopcicle]

Thanks for the response!!!!
Do I HAVE to read Infinity? (I really dont wanna)

You can get by without it. Except for maybe NA #12. It's a nice epilogue of Infinity and prologue of TRO. If you feel comfortable with who the builders are, why they want to destroy earth, don't care about Cannonball and Smasher (lulz), and don't really care about the details of how thanos ended up imprisoned in the necropolis, then you can skip infinity. Maybe ready NA #11 as well. There's some relevant stuff in that one.

[frostywontons]

Ah, makes sense... actually that's something I've always wondered about Eternity with my admitively little knowledge about him, so he represents just the 616 Universe, yes? And there are other versions of him for each universe? Or does Eternity represent the entire Marvel Multiverse? I can recall reading Avengers vs Justice League and that having a female Eternity who represents the DC universe and them making out and stuff and implying they each represented their multiverses, but that might have just been that crossover...

Yes, Eternity is merely an embodiment of existence in each universe. In the panel where the Beyonders kill Eternities there was a female-esque figure that I presume represents another universes' Eternity but the artist chose a female form to differentiate. Unless I am mistaken and this was some other cosmic being.