New Avengers 30 *spoilers*

[Ragdoll]

This issue scared the crap out of me. Like Lovecraft on DMT.

[Random4]

Is Hank someone that is suppose to know more about universal/multiversal science than Reed cause it seems like he does

[frostywontons]

This issue scared the crap out of me. Like Lovecraft on DMT.

IKR??? This is Lovecraft to the core. **** going down and you're powerless.

[jphamlore]

And the list of people the Illuminati could have obtained more information from, but didn't, keeps growing. The Great Society seemed to know something about the Ivory Kings.

[markallenchi]

So, every being connected with the Ivory Kings started to project the same frequency. That explains Molecule Man and the Mapmakers, but I thought the Mapmakers where just the AIM adaptoids who evolved in the Thin/White Space between universes (which is where the Ivory Kings come from). So did the Ivory Kings take control over the adaptoids?

Also, aren't Thor, Hyperion and team floating around the white space now? I remember the old Hyperion telling himself (OS tie-in) that he's place belonged in the white space. That he had to go out and make it his own. I wonder if Hyperion will end up being some all power being from thin space.

Also, the Bridge/Door that Michaelangelo built was mad out of Thin space. Still no motives or reason for the Beyonder or their desire to destroy everything.

[DrTraveler]

Ok, I gave this a second reading. My thoughts now:

1. This tied up a lot of mysteries. We now know for sure Hank Pym was the contact Mr. Fantastic and Iron Man made during Infinity. We also know what became of the builders in the other universes. We know what happened to the Living Tribunal, Celestials, and other Abstracts.

2. I think on the second reading that this story strongly hints as the what happened with the further multiversal collapse referenced a few issues back. It is likely when the Ivory Kings won, that they immediately destroyed all of the Universes without Earths and as many of the other Universes as they could. If that is the case then that means that either the Great Destroyer is protecting those Earths that remain, or that there is something specific about the Earths that remain that is protecting them from the Ivory Kings.

3. We are still left with a lot of whys. Why are the Ivory Kings destroying the Multiverse? Why is the Great Destroyer at war with the Ivory Kings? Why was simply building a beacon enough to call down the fury on the Captain Britain Corps? Is Doom following the same beacon and heading towards the same trap?

4. Structurally I understand why this story is told the way it is. We are running out of time, both literally and figuratively, and telling Pym's story this way has a dramatic appeal given we are reading a cosmic horror story. I still feel if Pym's trek through the Multiverse had been at least a "B" plot in New Avengers that this story would feel more earned than it does.

Overall, this is the first time since Time Runs Out started that I feel kinda gypped by the 8 month jump. I'm still in all the way to the end, I still enjoy the story overall, but I wish this issue had been enacted differently. This makes me a bit worried about how the big reveal in issue 31 of New Avengers will be handled.

On the other side, for the first time since Secret Wars was announced I feel like we may have real closure before Avengers ends. I could totally see the Avengers taking down the Destroyer only for the Ivory Kings to force everyone into Battleworld.

[Coal Tiger]

4. Structurally I understand why this story is told the way it is. We are running out of time, both literally and figuratively, and telling Pym's story this way has a dramatic appeal given we are reading a cosmic horror story. I still feel if Pym's trek through the Multiverse had been at least a "B" plot in New Avengers that this story would feel more earned than it does.

We are discovering this information at the same time as our main heroes. They are waiting for Pym's report just as we are.

[markallenchi]

Good points. At this point, who could be as strong as the Ivory Kings. We just say them take out every cosmic abstract and the Great Destroyer is on the same level?

And if I'm correct, these are the REAL Beyonders (the ones that created cosmic cubes and spawned the original beyonder).

I'm starting to think there is a grand purpose behind all of this. Maybe the multi-verse was a mistake and the Beyonders are trying to bring order back.

One theory, The Great Destroyer started all of this. He just wants the destruction of everything. Franklin realizes this and creates these Beyonders to destroy the multiverse so he can rebuild it from scratch (he is a universal shaper/reality is what he makes it).

Who knows. The more we learn, the more questions I have.

[kevinism]

it's almost as if time is running out.

lololololol

[megaharrison]

Great issue. I did not see the Beyonders being responsible for all of this, though it's fitting and terrifying to see them destroy all of reality like this.

Anyway I just hope we get to see "our" Beyonder before all of this is done.

I do see the Lovecraftian vibe to all of this, even the Beyonders in this form look like something he'd come up with.

[Nyadnar17]

Loved this issue. It was so H.P. Lovecraft Cosmic Horror I could weep. To those that didn't like it I would say this: Whatever this story was it was not rushed. The style and pacing of this story, including the info dumps, are textbook Cosmic Horror stuff. Cosmic Horror isn't for everyone(I mean just look at how small the genre is comparatively) so I completely understand if its not your cup of tea, but please don't call it rushed or shoddy. As far as Cosmic Horror goes this is an example of amazing craftsmanship.

[Biclopcicle]

And the list of people the Illuminati could have obtained more information from, but didn't, keeps growing. The Great Society seemed to know something about the Ivory Kings.

There was one incursion of the three that the Great Society survived but didnt disclose how. (NA#19 pg.10-11 digital)
some possibly conflicting information:
-the Great society faced two mapmaker incursions
-they must have faced the Black Priests at least once, since the Norn has learned their Words of Power and has a helmet of theirs
-based on NA#16, the Norn used the Words of Power at least once before their 3rd incursion.

My guess is the following:

1st incursion: probably red incursion with Black Priests, used "Wishing Box", Norn acquires Black Priest helmet and learns Words of Power
2nd incursion: possibly mapmaker world (the one in NA#16 was "second mapped world in two weeks"): Words of Power used. this is the most likely incursion where they faced an ivory king. Something else must have happened that allowed them to survive the incursion, because it wasn't the Words of Power that did ("we don't talk about that")
3rd incursion (depicted in NA#16): mapmaker world, destroyed by Words of Power

[markallenchi]

So, why did the Ivory Kings give the "Black Swan" the key and the door? Why would they help her planet? Was that to give them a way to escape the destruction?

[Double 0]

Re-reading the issue, yeah, I definitely see the Lovecraft influence. I'm not that much of a fan of Lovecraft, even ignoring the bigotries, but it definitely gives me more appreciation for the issue.

[chaosfist]

I totally disagree, he's kept the focus on the characters and their attempts to control and fight the end. I'd rather not have an issue or two of Pym traveling with the Builders and seeing things die, this format's been great since the run started.

I agree. This whole run has been great in my opinion. This issue may have been a little heavy on exposition but it was satisfying. What blows my mind is that people read stuff the obviously don't like. I know one thing I'm 100% with Marvel expanding its audience.