Diana As God of War

[Amazon Swordsman]

If Azzarello's run was about identity with Wonder Woman then he sure had a unique way of showing it. There were many times where it seemed like Diana was having an identity crisis, and flip-flopped on how she defines herself, or what name she responds to.

After she learned her birth was a lie, she didn't see herself as "Diana" or the "daughter of Zeus", but she declared "I am Wonder Woman!"

Other times when people referred to her as Wonder Woman, she would say, "No, I'm Diana. Call me Diana". Then she goes through other series of revaluations of her identity, and now seems to accept them all, "I'm Diana, daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, and God of War!" But all those other things are just titles...So, by the end of it, I'm not sure what he was trying to say about her identity.

I guess he was trying to say that despite her background, or what mantle she occupies, or what others call her, she ultimately defines herself by what she does.
But still, if the new title wasn't going to have any significant impact on her development as a character, I don't see why it was added in the first place.

I vote for a retcon.

[Vanguard-01]

I vote for a retcon.

Seconded!

10char

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

Well Brainiac is in Future's End. Azzarello himself is involved in writing it and they have barely used the Wonder Woman character. much less recall she is God of War. You can't say it fits the character when nothing really is done with it. Nothing much was fleshed out ( bar Soule who tried in WW FE) and we know little about what it means to the universe and what are her powers. It is pointless title so far if they cannot use her effectively in a universe wide event. So saying it fits her like a glove when she has done virtually little with it to influence the DCU or even her own title is premature.

As a warrior for peace / Zeus daughter she would have fought Brainiac anyway. She didn't need a God's mantle to be Wonder Woman. I agree with some here. It should just be for the short term to contrast her to Ares and show that she will never be like the Olympians ( that is what makes her Diana) and she does not need/ want Godhood in the first place to be effective and then let it be tossed out.

Yeah I think there's some consensus regarding the execution or lack thereof, I think it's something Azz and Meredith might've talked about when he passed the baton onto her so that she would flesh it out which I think she's doing in her own little clumsy way. I don't mind him leaving a few loose ends, it gives the next creative team something to work with and it keeps the readership guessing which is good, as long as those questions are answered in the end. Personally, I hope that she doesn't receive a new set of superpowers, especially the stupid ones Soule came up with, I think they take away from the Amazon theme which is my favorite. I much rather see Wonder Woman outclass and outthink her opponents.

If you're expecting Wonder Woman to take centre stage you'll probably be disappointed, I really think they don't know where to position the character and she will not usurp Superman's station for sure, so instead she gets a extra special spot in his shadow. Actually, I suspect the relationship with Superman was to domesticate Wonder Woman in a way, put the feminist back in her place which is below her male counterpart of course.

[Rogue Star]

...

Actually, I suspect the relationship with Superman was to domesticate Wonder Woman in a way, put the feminist back in her place which is below her male counterpart of course.

I hope they don't hint at a possible relationship with either Batman or Superman in Dawn of Justice but they probably will, and I'm guessing it'll be Bruce. I'd like her to not have to be attached to a man for a few movies.

[Pinsir]

If Azzarello's run was about identity with Wonder Woman then he sure had a unique way of showing it. There were many times where it seemed like Diana was having an identity crisis, and flip-flopped on how she defines herself, or what name she responds to.

After she learned her birth was a lie, she didn't see herself as "Diana" or the "daughter of Zeus", but she declared "I am Wonder Woman!"

Other times when people referred to her as Wonder Woman, she would say, "No, I'm Diana. Call me Diana". Then she goes through other series of revaluations of her identity, and now seems to accept them all, "I'm Diana, daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta, and God of War!" But all those other things are just titles...So, by the end of it, I'm not sure what he was trying to say about her identity.

I guess he was trying to say that despite her background, or what mantle she occupies, or what others call her, she ultimately defines herself by what she does.
But still, if the new title wasn't going to have any significant impact on her development as a character, I don't see why it was added in the first place.

I vote for a retcon.

Retcons pretty much happen whenever a new writer hops on. It often isn't intentional either they just emphasis one element, then another writer will come along and do it again and so on.

[Agent Z]

Azz-fans or not... --sure I get your point? Is there some math I'v missed out on ? Is it from the same fan math theory that says "if someone dislikes Azz/Chiang's run, then they must like the Finchs'!" ?

My point is that the dialogue I mention above is in the run, and probably for a reason. Her titles or blood, it should make zill difference what she's about. She's Diana. She's -at times tough- love.

I was just pointing out that some people - who are Azz fans - did miss the point Azzarello was trying to make. I never said anything about Finches vs Azz's.

[Outside_85]

I was referring to the classical Ares from the myths.

Well, that doesn't make it any more accurate. Ares was the god of war, but in most myths he's presented as a fool that either get's humiliated, beat up or tricked by more clever opponents, Olympus' village idiot.

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

I hope they don't hint at a possible relationship with either Batman or Superman in Dawn of Justice but they probably will, and I'm guessing it'll be Bruce. I'd like her to not have to be attached to a man for a few movies.

I don't mind Wonder Woman being attached to a man, it just can't be Superman or Batman, or anyone that relegates her to a supporting role.

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

I was just pointing out that some people - who are Azz fans - did miss the point Azzarello was trying to make. I never said anything about Finches vs Azz's.

What was that though?

[Blacksun]

If you're expecting Wonder Woman to take centre stage you'll probably be disappointed, I really think they don't know where to position the character and she will not usurp Superman's station for sure, so instead she gets a extra special spot in his shadow. Actually, I suspect the relationship with Superman was to domesticate Wonder Woman in a way, put the feminist back in her place which is below her male counterpart of course.

the relationship was a slap on the face of feminists, seems like DC editors wanted to put ww in the place they wanted for her: being superman's girlfriend.
Now would be hard to azz get to write ww on futures end, when the character wasn't offered to him. she is just there asa ensemble cast.

I don't mind Wonder Woman being attached to a man, it just can't be Superman or Batman, or anyone that relegates her to a supporting role.

but a man can be attached to WW? sure. for that reason it can't be superman or batman

[Marquesse_de_Sade]

the relationship was a slap on the face of feminists, seems like DC editors wanted to put ww in the place they wanted for her: being superman's girlfriend.
Now would be hard to azz get to write ww on futures end, when the character wasn't offered to him. she is just there asa ensemble cast.



but a man can be attached to WW? sure. for that reason it can't be superman or batman

It's pretty evident that DC have a strategy to alienate WW from feminism and the relationship is clearly part of said plan.

As for Azzarello, he's not passionate about Wonder Woman I think. Even Snyder, the self-proclaimed pro-feminist slash Wonder Woman lover slash feminist sweetheart treats Wonder Woman like fodder in his Superman and Batman stories.

[borntohula]

I was just pointing out that some people - who are Azz fans - did miss the point Azzarello was trying to make. I never said anything about Finches vs Azz's.

I know a couple of "Azz fans" who didn't like the run, and didn't get the point either. Also a couple of who doesn't like Azz and didn't like the run and didn't get the point. I'v also seen some who didn't like the run but who got the points.

As for Azzarello, he's not passionate about Wonder Woman I think. Even Snyder, the self-proclaimed pro-feminist slash Wonder Woman lover slash feminist sweetheart treats Wonder Woman like fodder in his Superman and Batman stories.

Azzarello have said in several interviews that he's never been more comfortable writing a character more than Wonder Woman. Which is quite big since he's always seen himself as a Batman guy who likes to write criminals. If you check his Luthor out, you'll see what he thinks of super heroes in general. But Diana caught his eye.

And btw. His and Chiang's first pitch was a Wonder Woman of all ages fighting nazis. And given all the feministic subtext in their run, I'd say he was quite into it. Also helps that he's hinted that he and Chiang have another Wonder Woman story they want to tell. They just need need to get some rest from each other and Wonder Woman first.

That there isn't much Wonder Woman in the Future ends book his writing has a quite simple explanation. The book mostly consists of teams up of character who had their books canceled. Azzarello isn't writing the JLA stuff either, mostly Batman Beyond and Constantine. And while Superman does show up in the book, he's looking like Bruce Springsteen on a bad beard day who's given up and Batman when Batman isn't an a#€hole or d!€k he's a coupled with the joker in a cyborg body. Green arrow and Cyborg have shown up, but mostly been side kicks to b-listers. Wouldn't surprise me if Wonder Woman get's some screen time, but she'll probably helping some character who got it's book canceled

[hellacre]

I know a couple of "Azz fans" who didn't like the run, and didn't get the point either. Also a couple of who doesn't like Azz and didn't like the run and didn't get the point. I'v also seen some who didn't like the run but who got the points.



Azzarello have said in several interviews that he's never been more comfortable writing a character more than Wonder Woman. That he thought himself as a Batman-guy who had a hard time writing the likes of Superman and such (Just look up his Spiderman issue or Joker and Luthor books.).

Btw. His and Chiang's first pitch was a Wonder Woman of all ages fighting nazis. And given all the feministic subtext in their run, I'd say he was quite into it. Also helps that he's hinted that he and Chiang have another Wonder Woman story they want to tell. They just need need to get some rest from each other and Wonder Woman first.

That there isn't much Wonder Woman in the Future ends book his writing has a quite simple explanation. The book mostly consists of teams up of character who had their books canceled. Superman shows up looking like Bruce Springsteen on a bad beard day and Batman when Batman isn't a dickish a-hole he's a coupled with the joker into a cyborg. Green arrow and Cyborg have shown up, but mostly been side kicks to b-listers.

The excuse for Azzarello not using Wonder Woman is weak sauce. Batman and Superman plotline is helping drive the narrative to some extent and believe me they HAVE books. And he could do anything with Diana here because it is an alternate timeline where she and Superman are not even together so that's an irrelevant excuse raised by Blacksun. If it was supposed to be about heroes who have no books then why is it about Superman coming in to save the day?
And it is a reflection of what people are complaining about. He has done nothing really relevant with the God of War concept even when he could. She is still the GOW and in a series where Brainiac is attacking...well she might as well be pre new 52 Wonder Woman for all that we see of her abilties. People complain than WW never get respect maybe the day writers can allow her to do something in a universe wide event we might see a start of her being vital. Because 9 times out of 10...Diana is always just window dressing. I am not asking she alone save the day either or grudging Superman or Batman get scenes or anyone else. The boys usually always do. In fact many characters can shine in a universe wide event if writers are good writers. But if we can't even give her a memorable scene or good dialogue what is the point? What is the point of her even being God of War? What is the point in saying she is a part of the Trinity's importance? I guess she can only be important by herself in a bubble in her own book.

So far what can people say about Future's End? Superman eventually shows up as a badass in the beard after he stops hiding and whining. You know the reaction to him in the beard and tee coming in to help is generally positive. Batman tries to get so and so to do the right thing. Wonder Woman becomes a cyborg. yay.

[hellacre]

the relationship was a slap on the face of feminists, seems like DC editors wanted to put ww in the place they wanted for her: being superman's girlfriend.
Now would be hard to azz get to write ww on futures end, when the character wasn't offered to him. she is just there asa ensemble cast.

That is a seriously subjective and hyperbolic statement about feminism. Seeing there are many feminists and female commentators who do not consider DC slapped them at all. Plus what do you mean the character was not offered to him? End of the day that's not even an excuse for his and the team's lack of use of her in the series anyway...a series that she appears in btw and the current status quo has nothing to do with because they are not together. A good chance for them to show what GOW can do but you know...who knows what GOW can do? The real extent of her power. Therein lies the problem. The only person who explored what little Azz gave us was Soule who some just like to bad mouth for obvious reasons.

[borntohula]

The excuse for Azzarello not using Wonder Woman is weak sauce. Batman and Superman plotline is helping drive the narrative to some extent and believe me they HAVE books. And he could do anything with Diana here because it is an alternate timeline where she and Superman are not even together so that's an irrelevant excuse raised by Blacksun. If it was supposed to be about heroes who have no books then why is it about Superman coming in to save the day?
And it is a reflection of what people are complaining about. He has done nothing really relevant with the God of War concept even when he could. She is still the GOW and in a series where Brainiac is attacking...well she might as well be pre new 52 Wonder Woman for all that we see of her abilties. People complain than WW never get respect maybe the day writers can allow her to do something in a universe wide event we might see a start of her being vital. Because 9 times out of 10...Diana is always just window dressing. I am not asking she alone save the day either or grudging Superman or Batman get scenes or anyone else. The boys usually always do. In fact many characters can shine in a universe wide event if writers are good writers. But if we can't even give her a memorable scene or good dialogue what is the point? What is the point of her even being God of War? What is the point in saying she is a part of the Trinity's importance? I guess she can only be important by herself in a bubble in her own book.

So far what can people say about Future's End? Superman eventually shows up as a badass in the beard after he stops hiding and whining. You know the reaction to him in the beard and tee coming in to help is generally positive. Batman tries to get so and so to do the right thing. Wonder Woman becomes a cyborg. yay.

As for my "Weak sauce" thoughts... And as for having her own book, I don't think it made her lesser. I think she was great.

While she isn't that "great" (since there isn't a great deal of her) in Futures end, none of the others fare much better. Outside being a dickish schemer, Batman have mostly shown up as a joker/batman-cyborg. And he's just recently activated Brother eye. Horray for him. Superman where also a cyborg in the future, and haven't done much (than hating on Batman.) until recently, when he quite quickly fell into the tarmac after taking flight towards Titan-Braniac. The one said to have saved the day was Dr Atom. Dr Atom...

But I still like Futures end. And who knows. Perhaps Diana will show up in a moment or something, I seriously don't know, haven't read the whole series yet. But I do know she didn't become the god of war to page-time in Future ends

I hope she get's some good scene or two. If not, then it's a shame, because she's a great character.

As for her own book. Mercy is her power/weakness. She fights for peace and love. She's the god of war. She's one of the greek gods. She's the queen of the amazons. The amazons are guarding the re-born Zeus. I'm quite disappointed that the current run isn't to my liking. The only joy I can find in it is that some quite seem to like it. I also hope Finchs can enjoy a great amount of freedom in creating the title.

Luckily the lastest JLA had some pure Diana moments. She commented on the gods not being there, but that she is. She lead by example and inspired people into better. The good stuff! Hopefully other WW writers will follow getting what makes her so damned special.

I hope Snyder writes her a book soon enough. I think he'll make a good greek horror book with lots of heart.