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  1. #46
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    Anyway what feminist subtext are you talking about, I picked up on a few sexist undertones actually, like men locking horns for the throne of olympus, the fact that almost every important woman in Wonder Woman's life was replaced by a male analogue and that the amazons were lobotomized. In the end Wonder Woman didn't really achieve anything, it all just kind of happened the way it was meant to happen. Wonder Woman was really just a pawn in the game of thrones.

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    Wonder Woman being the God of War is awful! A heroine that always stood for life and peace, she did everything in her power to preserve life and peace. Now the very thing she has always fought against she has become! Now she is War! A threat to life and peace! Instead of being a symbol for life, she's a symbol for death, and human suffering. A being that live to destroy!! I don't see WW as a hero anymore!! I see her as a vile War God, a threat to the heroes, to her friends, and to the people she loves, she's a threat to all life!! I wonder Can she love people now?? Or is she only able to love violents, suffering and death?? Are they her true loves now??
    Last edited by chlj1; 02-26-2015 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marquesse_de_Sade View Post

    Anyway what feminist subtext are you talking about, I picked up on a few sexist undertones actually, like men locking horns for the throne of olympus, the fact that almost every important woman in Wonder Woman's life was replaced by a male analogue and that the amazons were lobotomized. In the end Wonder Woman didn't really achieve anything, it all just kind of happened the way it was meant to happen. Wonder Woman was really just a pawn in the game of thrones.
    I'm not sure which women where replaced by some males or such. You're thinking of pre-52? Most male characters in the n52 book either died (since they wouldn't/couldn't reform.) or went elsewhere.

    Either way.If you're interested, here's some of it. I won't go into the duality stuff (I'm saving that for a thread.). And first off, feminism can be all over the place, with different meanings, intentions and/or purpose.

    WW#30. Besides Zola and Diana being on point why women can like some time off from men, there's Hera's words. "It's about barriers. We need to remove them, so Diana can move forward.". And then there's Dessa's "You speak as if we hae one mind in this matter, but rarely it is, if ever.". First Born is voicing that he hungers (classic man thing. More on that.) and then calls out the Minotaur as less than a man.

    WW#31. Diana starts off by saying gender equality is more than necessary, it being morally necessary. She then asks her people -women of male privilege. Egalia's Daughters territory- to reform. And then -Once again- a man who can't feel full. The titan Cronus is fed over and over, with Hades. One who also couldn't be contempt with what he (like, what seems like most men in the run.) had. Diana talks with Dessa, that their male like superiority has more to do with traditions than anything else, a weakness they use like strength.

    WW#33. Time after time, Diana calls First born out on classic male tropes. She denies a marriage for the second time (which seems like feminism to some haha.). Diana tells First born about the titles, that nothing of them MAKES her. First Born empales Diana with a phallic thorn out of his body. Minotaur empales Orion with his phallic horns. (putting some symbolism into this.)

    WW#34. First born says he'll let the amazons die with the same mark he left Diana with. Hyph throws a sphere between his legs (lot of phallic stuff). Ares shows up with Diana, talks about nature being the truth. But perhaps not for the best. Men giving seed, fems giving birth. Illusion, identity and stuff is better.

    WW#35. Another whining male with ambition biting the dust with Sea. And then there's the Last born's turn. The guy is the worst of men, all macho. But all alone in the end. Strife even calls him out on this. That he's just bullsh!%. Minotaur is then seen not being a man, but a shaved bull. The macho get up is just a ruse, to make him look man. First Born calls him cow. First born kills him with his phallic horns. Diana once again goes on about identity stuff, that she's called this and that --but she's herself. Then there's more on identity between Diana and Zola, that even if Zola's little and stuff. She's special to Diana thanks to her person. Essentially making sense out of the men as sperm vessels. Zola being a baby vessel. But Zola's more. Zola also mentions Zeus giving birth to her, which could call it into question if he's a 100% "man". They then get a matriarchy with Zeke/Zeus on the throne, under the nurture of women (I asked a couple of schooled feminists, they all said: "Yep. That's some matriarchy right there. Thanks to the influence.".

    As of now. I'm quite tired and about to fall asleep. Bottom line, you can feel any way you want about the Azz/Chiang run. I think it has some serious merits on several levels. The vessel (a word quite common in feminism.) stuff has helped me getting a couple of friends into feeling better about themselves as man as well as women.

    While I'm writing some serious hyperballo, the stuffs is in the run. Questioning why Zeus can lay all he wants, but those he lays gets the blame. Hera saying it's because of her "role" as a queen... It's all over the run. Showing gender as a construction, and then dismantling it.

    You're free to interpret the stuff above, and more, any way you want. It'd be cool if you like the run. If not, perhaps there's an interesting thing or two in there?
    Last edited by borntohula; 02-26-2015 at 01:46 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    I'm not sure which women where replaced by some males or such. You're thinking of pre-52? Most male characters in the n52 book either died (since they wouldn't/couldn't reform.) or went elsewhere.

    Either way.If you're interested, here's some of it. I won't go into the duality stuff (I'm saving that for a thread.). And first off, feminism can be all over the place, with different meanings, intentions and/or purpose.

    WW#30. Besides Zola and Diana being on point why women can like some time off from men, there's Hera's words. "It's about barriers. We need to remove them, so Diana can move forward.". And then there's Dessa's "You speak as if we hae one mind in this matter, but rarely it is, if ever.". First Born is voicing that he hungers (classic man thing. More on that.) and then calls out the Minotaur as less than a man.

    WW#31. Diana starts off by saying gender equality is more than necessary, it being morally necessary. She then asks her people -women of male privilege. Egalia's Daughters territory- to reform. And then -Once again- a man who can't feel full. The titan Cronus is fed over and over, with Hades. One who also couldn't be contempt with what he (like, what seems like most men in the run.) had. Diana talks with Dessa, that their male like superiority has more to do with traditions than anything else, a weakness they use like strength.

    WW#33. Time after time, Diana calls First born out on classic male tropes. She denies a marriage for the second time (which seems like feminism to some haha.). Diana tells First born about the titles, that nothing of them MAKES her. First Born empales Diana with a phallic thorn out of his body. Minotaur empales Orion with his phallic horns. (putting some symbolism into this.)

    WW#34. First born says he'll let the amazons die with the same mark he left Diana with. Hyph throws a sphere between his legs (lot of phallic stuff). Ares shows up with Diana, talks about nature being the truth. But perhaps not for the best. Men giving seed, fems giving birth. Illusion, identity and stuff is better.

    WW#35. Another whining male with ambition biting the dust with Sea. And then there's the Last born's turn. The guy is the worst of men, all macho. But all alone in the end. Strife even calls him out on this. That he's just bullsh!%. Minotaur is then seen not being a man, but a shaved bull. The macho get up is just a ruse, to make him look man. First Born calls him cow. First born kills him with his phallic horns. Diana once again goes on about identity stuff, that she's called this and that --but she's herself. Then there's more on identity between Diana and Zola, that even if Zola's little and stuff. She's special to Diana thanks to her person. Essentially making sense out of the men as sperm vessels. Zola being a baby vessel. But Zola's more. Zola also mentions Zeus giving birth to her, which could call it into question if he's a 100% "man". They then get a matriarchy with Zeke/Zeus on the throne, under the nurture of women (I asked a couple of schooled feminists, they all said: "Yep. That's some matriarchy right there. Thanks to the influence.".

    As of now. I'm quite tired and about to fall asleep. Bottom line, you can feel any way you want about the Azz/Chiang run. I think it has some serious merits on several levels. The vessel (a word quite common in feminism.) stuff has helped me getting a couple of friends into feeling better about themselves as man as well as women.

    While I'm writing some serious hyperballo, the stuffs is in the run. Questioning why Zeus can lay all he wants, but those he lays gets the blame. Hera saying it's because of her "role" as a queen... It's all over the run. Showing gender as a construction, and then dismantling it.

    You're free to interpret the stuff above, and more, any way you want. It'd be cool if you like the run. If not, perhaps there's an interesting thing or two in there?
    wow I'm gonna have to check some of these references but I'll be honest, I think you're overanalyzing. Some of those actually seem more like a jab at feminism, rather than a tribute to the movement. The amazons were possibly an allegory to what, in his perception, feminist women have become ie untoward bullies and I don't believe that getting stabbed by horns is a metaphor for sexual penetration. Btw I did enjoy the book.

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    Good examples, bortntohula. Marquesse, while I think it's true that a lot of the supported characters don't live up to feminist ideal (at least until they're influenced by Wonder Woman), it's also true that Wonder Woman herself lives her to her feminist icon status in big ways in Azz's run. Here are a few feminist themes that I think Azz's Diana lives up and reinforces"

    --Women rescue, protect and teach or inspire other women--especially women who have been victims of men: Diana spends almost the whole series protecting a woman who has been sexually used and deceived. When Hermes and others act like only Zeke matters, Diana reminds them that she's motivated by love for her friend. Diana also helps the very embodiment of oppressed women, Hera, learn to rely herself; see the back to back scenes in which Diana stands before one kneeling queen (Hippolyta) and recalls learning from that queen how to rely on herself, and then stands in front of another kneeling queen (Hera) and passes the lesson of self-reliance on to her. Her embrace of Sirracca, who was trying to kill Diana but really needed hug, is another good example.

    --Women should and can stand up to oppressive men who try to trap them in relationships based on warped perversions of love, without trust: Wonder Woman makes this about as clear as could be in issue 10 when she defies Hades--a guy who was trying to trying to coerce love out of his bride at the end of a noose at the bridal altar. And it's clear again when the FB tries to make her his "lover," despite not having a real concept of love.

    --The idea of independent women as bitter man haters is an an anachronism that should be left behind in the world of myth: I know that some will say that this is a lesson that Azz has failed to learn; but I think he has Wonder Woman begin to to teach this lesson to Dessa and the Amazons; their harshness may have seemed necessary to "survival" (Dessa's explanation) in the past, but it's not what feminists in the modern world, like Diana, are all about. nor what she believes the Amazons should be all about.

    --Women should resist the idea that they need to hold themselves to impossible standards of purity or perfection: Wonder Woman realizes that she had to stop trying to be perfect before she can start getting better, and that "out of perfection, nothing comes." And, in a sense, these are ideas that feminism has emphasized, after generations of women were taught that the stifling lessons that imperfections like excessive aggression, rebelliousness and selfishness are natural in men but unnatural in women.

    And, more directly addressing the topic of the thread, women can take on men's traditional roles and bring new perspectives to those roles. I think it could end up being significant that, just as Wonder Woman first appeared shortly after women began taking on roles in the U.S military she became the god of war shortly after women were allowed into most combat roles in the U.S military.
    Last edited by Silvanus; 02-26-2015 at 09:11 PM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    Good examples, bortntohula. Marquesse, while I think it's true that a lot of the supported characters don't live up to feminist ideal (at least until they're influenced by Wonder Woman), it's also true that Wonder Woman herself lives her to her feminist icon status in big ways in Azz's run. Here are a few feminist themes that I think Azz's Diana lives up and reinforces"

    --Women rescue, protect and teach or inspire other women--especially women who have been victims of men: Diana spends almost the whole series protecting a woman who has been sexually used and deceived. When Hermes and others act like only Zeke matters, Diana reminds them that she's motivated by love for her friend. Diana also helps the very embodiment of oppressed women, Hera, learn to rely herself; see the back to back scenes in which Diana stands before one kneeling queen (Hippolyta) and recalls learning from that queen how to rely on herself, and then stands in front of another kneeling queen (Hera) and passes the lesson of self-reliance on to her. Her embrace of Sirracca, who was trying to kill Diana but really needed hug, is another good example.

    --Women should and can stand up to oppressive men who try to trap them in relationships based on warped perversions of love, without trust: Wonder Woman makes this about as clear as could be in issue 10 when she defies Hades--a guy who was trying to trying to coerce love out of his bride at the end of a noose at the bridal altar. And it's clear again when the FB tries to make her his "lover," despite not having a real concept of love.

    --The idea of independent women as bitter man haters is an an anachronism that should be left behind in the world of myth: I know that some will say that this is a lesson that Azz has failed to learn; but I think he has Wonder Woman begin to to teach this lesson to Dessa and the Amazons; their harshness may have seemed necessary to "survival" (Dessa's explanation) in the past, but it's not what feminists in the modern world, like Diana, are all about. nor what she believes the Amazons should be all about.

    --Women should resist the idea that they need to hold themselves to impossible standards of purity or perfection: Wonder Woman realizes that she had to stop trying to be perfect before she can start getting better, and that "out of perfection, nothing comes." And, in a sense, these are ideas that feminism has emphasized, after generations of women were taught that the stifling lessons that imperfections like excessive aggression, rebelliousness and selfishness are natural in men but unnatural in women.

    And, more directly addressing the topic of the thread, women can take on men's traditional roles and bring new perspectives to those roles. I think it could end up being significant that, just as Wonder Woman first appeared shortly after women began taking on roles in the U.S military she became the god of war shortly after women were allowed into most combat roles in the U.S military.
    As a counter argument, the idea that certain marginalized groups should have their reasons for their anger ignored or downplayed is equally harmful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    As a counter argument, the idea that certain marginalized groups should have their reasons for their anger ignored or downplayed is equally harmful.
    That's true. But, in this case, is the "marginalized group" Amazons, or it it women everywhere?

    If it's just the Amazons, then yes, the bool downplays or takes for granted their reasons to be angry. But I don't think the Amazons are meant to represent modern women or feminists; the Amazons,a fter all, are emphatically unmodern.

    If the marginalized group is women everywhere, I think their reasons for anger are illustrated in the ways that myth-based stories like this tend to illustrate big things: by the actions and attitudes of the gods. I guess, though, to me, if the marginalized group consists of women in general, then there are a lot of illustrations in the book of why that group has reasons to be angry. These illustrations come in the way in which we might expect big things to be illustrated in a myth-based narrative: through the actions and attitudes of the gods. At the beginning of the run, we see that the patriarch of patriarchs has made his wife miserable and deceived and used Zola; then we see Poseidon treating the queen with utter contempt, as an accessory for kings, like a crown or a throne, rather than as a person; then we see Hades treating love like a chain or a noose; then we see how women have been caught in the bloody crossfire of patriarchal wars, as Zeus rips the First Born from Hera's arms; and so on, all the way through the First Born's massive flame-out of hypermasculinity that almost destroys the world, and his attempt to pull Wonder Woman down into a pit of possessive "love." So, if these gods represent masculinity in the ancient world, I think I get why an ancient nation of women might have felt besieged and might have taken extreme measures to survive.

    The Amazons have followed the old logic of war; in a world that, as we know from history, has been hostile to women, the Amazons have been hostile to men. They've done what Ares would have advised: don't let let your defeated enemies live, lest they seek revenge. But there's a new War in town, and, for her, being an Amazon warrior is supposed to mean being ready to unify in defense against aggression like the First Born's, not about pointless violence. (I always think of Marston's first Dr. Psycho issue, which ends with Diana telling Psycho's wife to learn self-reliance--perhaps by joining one of the new women's auxiliary organizations in the military, because (paraphrasing as closely as I can remember) "we prepare to fight so we won't have to fight." That, I think, could be a big part of the military philosophy of this new god of war.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    That's true. But, in this case, is the "marginalized group" Amazons, or it it women everywhere?

    If it's just the Amazons, then yes, the bool downplays or takes for granted their reasons to be angry. But I don't think the Amazons are meant to represent modern women or feminists; the Amazons,a fter all, are emphatically unmodern.

    If the marginalized group is women everywhere, I think their reasons for anger are illustrated in the ways that myth-based stories like this tend to illustrate big things: by the actions and attitudes of the gods. I guess, though, to me, if the marginalized group consists of women in general, then there are a lot of illustrations in the book of why that group has reasons to be angry. These illustrations come in the way in which we might expect big things to be illustrated in a myth-based narrative: through the actions and attitudes of the gods. At the beginning of the run, we see that the patriarch of patriarchs has made his wife miserable and deceived and used Zola; then we see Poseidon treating the queen with utter contempt, as an accessory for kings, like a crown or a throne, rather than as a person; then we see Hades treating love like a chain or a noose; then we see how women have been caught in the bloody crossfire of patriarchal wars, as Zeus rips the First Born from Hera's arms; and so on, all the way through the First Born's massive flame-out of hypermasculinity that almost destroys the world, and his attempt to pull Wonder Woman down into a pit of possessive "love." So, if these gods represent masculinity in the ancient world, I think I get why an ancient nation of women might have felt besieged and might have taken extreme measures to survive.

    The Amazons have followed the old logic of war; in a world that, as we know from history, has been hostile to women, the Amazons have been hostile to men. They've done what Ares would have advised: don't let let your defeated enemies live, lest they seek revenge. But there's a new War in town, and, for her, being an Amazon warrior is supposed to mean being ready to unify in defense against aggression like the First Born's, not about pointless violence. (I always think of Marston's first Dr. Psycho issue, which ends with Diana telling Psycho's wife to learn self-reliance--perhaps by joining one of the new women's auxiliary organizations in the military, because (paraphrasing as closely as I can remember) "we prepare to fight so we won't have to fight." That, I think, could be a big part of the military philosophy of this new god of war.)
    Perhaps the Amazons aren't meant to represent modern women but I don't think that's enough of an excuse to not get into their reasons for their issues with men. We've seen how other women came to have issues with men but not these Amazons so it all feels hollow. Hell, I think it's worse because as bad as Hera has it, mortal women have it worst yet we are supposed to sympathize with her despite her having been as responsible for the suffering of women as the male gods have.

    Sorry to take this off topic but it just seems like no matter how much I try I can't really let go of this.

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    I don't mind it the idea, but sure as hell not a whole lot has been done with the concept. At best its mentioned, but never really becomes a factor. Maybe that'll changes with Finch, she seems to have at least foreshadowed something of significance in regards to the title, but it would be a first. If nothing of consequence is done with it though and it remains just some sort of thing that's there, that writers will mention to get out of the way but then move on to other things, then they might as well end it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Perhaps the Amazons aren't meant to represent modern women but I don't think that's enough of an excuse to not get into their reasons for their issues with men.
    I think we have to separate the questions "is this offensive to feminism?" and "is this offensive to Amazon fans?" It's not the same question, because while it may be that all Amazon fans are feminists, not all feminists care deeply about the Amazons.

    And because these Amazons' actions are depicted as anachronistic and aberrant, there is not, as another posted suggested there was, an implication that real feminists, as we know them today, are "man haters"; and therefore, I don't think their portrayal is an offense to feminism.

    Of course, if you're a big fan of the Amazons and their portrayal as heroes, you're not not going to like most of how they were portrayed here, and you may even be offended by it. That's totally understandable. I just don't think it makes the portrayal anti-feminist.

    Similarly--and this is my way of returning to the god of war topic--if a reader loves Athena as goddess of war, that reader's probably not going to like it that she doesn't seem to have played that role in this universe,a s far as we can see. She's Justice, and that may overlap with War in the form of just war, but she's evidently not War per se. I can understand why some people wouldn't like that. At the same time, I think it makes sense in Azz's story for a wise female deity of war to be a new role originated by Wonder Woman, this feminist icon, in the modern world, and not just business as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanus View Post
    Good examples, bortntohula. Marquesse, while I think it's true that a lot of the supported characters don't live up to feminist ideal (at least until they're influenced by Wonder Woman), it's also true that Wonder Woman herself lives her to her feminist icon status in big ways in Azz's run. Here are a few feminist themes that I think Azz's Diana lives up and reinforces"

    --Women rescue, protect and teach or inspire other women--especially women who have been victims of men: Diana spends almost the whole series protecting a woman who has been sexually used and deceived. When Hermes and others act like only Zeke matters, Diana reminds them that she's motivated by love for her friend. Diana also helps the very embodiment of oppressed women, Hera, learn to rely herself; see the back to back scenes in which Diana stands before one kneeling queen (Hippolyta) and recalls learning from that queen how to rely on herself, and then stands in front of another kneeling queen (Hera) and passes the lesson of self-reliance on to her. Her embrace of Sirracca, who was trying to kill Diana but really needed hug, is another good example.

    --Women should and can stand up to oppressive men who try to trap them in relationships based on warped perversions of love, without trust: Wonder Woman makes this about as clear as could be in issue 10 when she defies Hades--a guy who was trying to trying to coerce love out of his bride at the end of a noose at the bridal altar. And it's clear again when the FB tries to make her his "lover," despite not having a real concept of love.

    --The idea of independent women as bitter man haters is an an anachronism that should be left behind in the world of myth: I know that some will say that this is a lesson that Azz has failed to learn; but I think he has Wonder Woman begin to to teach this lesson to Dessa and the Amazons; their harshness may have seemed necessary to "survival" (Dessa's explanation) in the past, but it's not what feminists in the modern world, like Diana, are all about. nor what she believes the Amazons should be all about.

    --Women should resist the idea that they need to hold themselves to impossible standards of purity or perfection: Wonder Woman realizes that she had to stop trying to be perfect before she can start getting better, and that "out of perfection, nothing comes." And, in a sense, these are ideas that feminism has emphasized, after generations of women were taught that the stifling lessons that imperfections like excessive aggression, rebelliousness and selfishness are natural in men but unnatural in women.

    And, more directly addressing the topic of the thread, women can take on men's traditional roles and bring new perspectives to those roles. I think it could end up being significant that, just as Wonder Woman first appeared shortly after women began taking on roles in the U.S military she became the god of war shortly after women were allowed into most combat roles in the U.S military.
    Can't say I agree with you! I thought Azz. destroyed the image of WW being a feminist icon, by WW accepting Orion behavior! She did have that one moment she protested his treatment. But after that brief moment WW pretty much let Orion brow beat, allowing him to treat her any kind of away! I pointed this out before! Orion never did call her WW or by her name Diana!! WW allowed Orion to call her by a bodypart " leg" thru out Azz's. run! I read some fans, and shockly a lot of interviewers and reviewers thought Orion sexual harassment, treating WW in a demeaning way and calling her legs was funny!! Women that don't call themselves feminist, wouldn't let a guy treat them that way, let along allow a guy to call them legs!! Being treated like a sex object, treated with little to no respect, this kind of treatment is what women have been fighting against for a long time! WW a feminist icon allowed and accepted him treating her that way, even calling her legs in front of WW mother, to her mother shock! I really don't know how that reinforces the feminist ideal.
    Last edited by chlj1; 02-27-2015 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chlj1 View Post
    Can't say I agree with you! I thought Azz. destroyed the image of WW being a feminist icon, by WW accepting Orion behavior! She did have that one moment she protested his treatment. But after that brief moment WW pretty much let Orion brow beat, allowing him to treat her any kind of away! I pointed this out before! Orion never did call her WW or by her name Diana!! WW allowed Orion to call her by a bodypart " leg" thru out Azz's. run! I read some fans, and shockly a lot of interviewers and reviewers thought Orion sexual harassment, treating WW in a demeaning way and calling her legs was funny!! Women that don't call themselves feminist, wouldn't let a guy treat them that way, let along allow a guy to call them legs!! Being treated like a sex object, treated with little to no respect, this kind of treatment is what women have been fighting against for a long time! WW a feminist icon allowed and accepted him treating her that way, even calling her legs in front of WW mother, to her mother shock! I really don't know how that reinforces the feminist ideal.
    she didn't accepted, she left pretty clear that she wouldn't tolerate that

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    Quote Originally Posted by chlj1 View Post
    Can't say I agree with you! I thought Azz. destroyed the image of WW being a feminist icon, by WW accepting Orion behavior! She did have that one moment she protested his treatment. But after that brief moment WW pretty much let Orion brow beat, allowing him to treat her any kind of away! I pointed this out before!
    You did indeed, and I pointed out that it's not so. We seems to be going in circles--but, just to remind you, she protested more than once: she walks away from him in disgust in 18 after his weak flattery attempt spoils their nice moment, she dies the big protest in 19, and when he returns in 21, she yells "don't call me Baby." He doesn't really say anything else offensive to her between then and issue 34, where he calls her Legs (while otherwise being helpful and even deferential, in the sense that he's willing to cover her exit to Olympus instead of hogging the limelight for himself. He turns over a slight bit of a new leaf in 22 by living up to Diana's faith in him and defying his father to keep Zeke with Zola. And he doesn't do anything particularly obnoxious in 23 (though he's not very useful either.) I'm not saying he's thoroughly reformed after having been rebuked by Diana--he spends much of the time from 24 to 33 away from Diana, so he doesn't have that many chances to browbeat her--but there are no examples around that time to show that he does "browbeats" her.

    Let me ask you a different question, since we're talking about the "god of war" thing on this thread. I remember that you're a veteran, right? (Thanks for your service, by the way.) And I know you don't like Diana as god of war. I'm curious whether you would be more OK with Diana as either "god of warriors" or "god of soldiers," rather than god of war itself? I ask because it seems to me that while the activity of war is awful, the actual people who participate in it are often noble, courageous and self-sacrificing. So would you be OK with the idea of Diana standing for warriors or soldiers like you and your old comrades-at-arms? I hope it's too intrusive of me to ask; I'm just curious, and of course you can ignore the question if you want.
    Last edited by Silvanus; 02-27-2015 at 12:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    she didn't accepted, she left pretty clear that she wouldn't tolerate that
    If that is the case, why did the name calling still go on without any repercussions?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by wagthedog View Post
    If that is the case, why did the name calling still go on without any repercussions?
    Because, like with most grown up people, Diana has better things to do than constantly police the behaviour of a think-headed man-child. She protests when it gets out of line and she takes action when it's truly out of line, but thats it.
    If she was to deal with him more harshly for every comment or action he made against her, you might aswell ask why Batman doesnt punch Hal Jordan in the mouth every time he opens it and something stupid comes out

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