Split timelines - Theory for RYV's Spidey and OMD generating a new timeline

[R.K.Z]

Events happening in ASM in 1998 were happening in 1998. Events happening in Spider-Girl in 1998 were happening in 1998.

Either Mayday is from a timeline where Peter was born earlier than his 616 counterpart, or time accelerated in MC2 when MC2 split off from 616 or something. But that would lead to Mayday being older than the 16 years old she still is.

Spider-Girl's timeline/continuity bumped up and down all over the place throughout the run.

At one point, it was taking place in 2017 (according to a newspaper article in one scene), then Marvel scaled it back to 1996 (according to another newspaper headline in the ASG relaunch), it's had the origin story tweaked and tweaked several times also depending on what mood DeFalco was in.

Hr first appearance in "What If..." has a flashback to her being born in the hospital, when her ongoing established Kane rescued her from Osborn. Also, in detailing how Peter lost his leg, Peter went from going after Kane and Osborn immediately after the baby was recovered to waiting two years later to do that so Tom could tell stories of what life was like raising a baby while still being Spider-Man

The British Spider-Man comics also had a story where Mayday went back in time and met her father, only in that continuity Peter remembered the encounter and kept it secret after Mayday was born and came of age, and waited until she came back from her time travel adventure to tell her this.

I would like to believe that RYV Peter is the "original" Peter as you'd put it, although that itself raises questions that no one would consider unless you're some kind of idiot.

I recall in the initial Secret Wars press conferences Axel Alonzo said something about the "Vows" Peter being "the one for us" and that he was "our" Spider-Man. Weird choice of words seeing as we just had a story where the moral was "Anyone out of the legions of Spider-Men on hand here is your Spider-Man, they're all special and unique"

[Trash Jack]

When it comes to the whole "sliding timescales" thing in relation to 616, the MC2 universe, and other Marvel universes, I only have one thing to say:

Franklin Richards is to blame. There's your answer for how it's even possible.

[Probalus]

I recall in the initial Secret Wars press conferences Axel Alonzo said something about the "Vows" Peter being "the one for us" and that he was "our" Spider-Man. Weird choice of words seeing as we just had a story where the moral was "Anyone out of the legions of Spider-Men on hand here is your Spider-Man, they're all special and unique"

It was more "this is your story" when referring to Return the Vows, most likely because the book is replacing the regular Amazing stories during the event.

[R.K.Z]

It was more "this is your story" when referring to Return the Vows, most likely because the book is replacing the regular Amazing stories during the event.

That makes sense. Though it has been said this story will have an impact on the books going forward, indicating it's not just a side-step into the regency and then back to 616 Manhattan. Perhaps 616 Peter and MJ travel there, meet the "no deal" Parkers and their child (which would tie into the dream MJ had in OMIT of talking to her daughter) and then come back agreeing to stay in touch with each other knowing that things could have ended up alright. That would resolve their current strain, put MJ back in the books, and kick off the whole will they/won't they again for the next few years. I do have an alternative theory which is a bit more bittersweet, but I'll save that until we get to the actual event.

[Probalus]

That makes sense. Though it has been said this story will have an impact on the books going forward, indicating it's not just a side-step into the regency and then back to 616 Manhattan. Perhaps 616 Peter and MJ travel there, meet the "no deal" Parkers and their child (which would tie into the dream MJ had in OMIT of talking to her daughter) and then come back agreeing to stay in touch with each other knowing that things could have ended up alright. That would resolve their current strain, put MJ back in the books, and kick off the whole will they/won't they again for the next few years. I do have an alternative theory which is a bit more bittersweet, but I'll save that until we get to the actual event.

Yes, they said all SW books will have elements, characters, etc carried to the main MU going forward. But we still have no idea what that main MU comprises off... Is it all 616 characters or new versions of the characters?

Depending on the direction Marvel wants to take, this story could either be the one last hurrah for the married Spider-Man or the new status quo going forward. Probably the former rather than latter but could be anywhere in between too.

[Tuck]

What's weird about Mayday going back in time is how it doesn't make sense both ways. While it makes perfect sense for Mayday to go back to an early point in her universe's timeline, that would only work if it her home time period can remain a potential future of 616. Of course, I might be overthinking things (WHO'S SURPRISED?!), and the simplest explanation could just be that OMD was written after that issue of Spider-Girl, and because OMD was such a half-assed job that chose to disregard its effect on the timeline, instead opting to make Mephisto take two or three alternate forms to keep the timeline intact. OMD/OMIT prioritized the idea that you could get rid of the marriage with no consequences, limiting MC2's influence on any consideration given towards what OMD/OMIT set out to do.

The point of divergence in the timelines is May's birth, not OMD. 616 May is dead. Because that was all up in the air at the time (oh look, Aunt May's alive???), May's What If? is about the divergence being Kaine rescuing May rather than simply whether or not she was born alive. (Although, OMD may have retconned the pregnancy itself out of continuity. OMIT's explanations for why Peter and MJ never got married was about having children. If MJ got pregnant, then taking that into consideration, she would (should) either then decided to get married or consider abortion/giving it up for adoption.)

And, if all these What If? divergent paths are different timelines, then we are not in 616 anymore. That's the problem with overwriting 20 years. If married MJ and Peter circa 2006 exist in 616, then the current MJ and Peter who were not married circa 2006 cannot also be from 616. They could have just given some sort of ad hoc handwave nonsense. But if RYV is about the deal being a split point, well then there's a problem. Because the decision in OMD is the catalyst for the timeline fork. However, the point of divergence is the wedding day.

That makes sense. Though it has been said this story will have an impact on the books going forward, indicating it's not just a side-step into the regency and then back to 616 Manhattan. Perhaps 616 Peter and MJ travel there, meet the "no deal" Parkers and their child (which would tie into the dream MJ had in OMIT of talking to her daughter) and then come back agreeing to stay in touch with each other knowing that things could have ended up alright. That would resolve their current strain, put MJ back in the books, and kick off the whole will they/won't they again for the next few years. I do have an alternative theory which is a bit more bittersweet, but I'll save that until we get to the actual event.

Marvel (don't recall who specifically) has said that RYV will settle Peter's relationship status for the foreseeable future. But that can mean a lot of things. It can even mean that they're going to marry MJ off to Pedro. That settles it insomuch as MJ is no longer on the table for Peter even in that back burner sense. It could mean they pair him off with Silk, or he decides to forgo dating because of something related to his and Anna Maria's living situation. I mean, they're on record saying that some things that happen in Secret Wars are going to anger fans.

[R.K.Z]

Marvel (don't recall who specifically) has said that RYV will settle Peter's relationship status for the foreseeable future. But that can mean a lot of things. It can even mean that they're going to marry MJ off to Pedro. That settles it insomuch as MJ is no longer on the table for Peter even in that back burner sense. It could mean they pair him off with Silk, or he decides to forgo dating because of something related to his and Anna Maria's living situation. I mean, they're on record saying that some things that happen in Secret Wars are going to anger fans.

I recall Nick Lowe was the one who said Slott still had major plans for MJ in the book...and having her rush into another marriage would be more meta play on how Marvel's current editors felt Peter and MJ rushed into their own wedding, plus MJ has had a history of doing this in other canons (John Jameson in the movies, Harry in the 90s cartoon) Years back I theorized Marvel would "celebrate" the anniversary of One More Day by having MJ marry someone else. If what you suggest comes to pass, Marvel want to get that done a few years short of the target, but nevertheless, it would definitely be something I see them doing. After all, they finally moved Aunt May on from Ben (though nothing really interesting has been done with May and Jay outside of that one story that set up "Noone Dies")

Marrying other people can be easily undone via a divorce, but that would paint MJ as being someone who can't hold a stable relationship together (on par with her family history) and show why she is an "ill fit" for Peter overall, even if it would put her back on the table. The only other option is Pedro dying, but that could be handled badly too if Peter is at fault for it and she ends up hating him for a long stretch.

[Mister Mets]

Didn't Bendis' X-Men annuals make the sliding timescales full-on canon? I mean, it might just be limited to 616, so may it doesn't have any effect on MC2, but eh.

That said, Vortex, your map pretty much sums it up. Regardless of the wibbly wobbly timey wimey shenanigans with MC2, OMD and the fate of baby May are the points of divergence.

Now, if we're talking about it from a writing perspective, MC2 isn't actually a "guaranteed" future for Peter, because given the refusal to actually allow Peter to grow up, that postpones Mayday actually being allowed to be a character with a sense of presence in the narrative, and as such, writers can make additions or changes that also prevent 616 from turning out like MC2. Characters who die in 616 yet are still alive in MC2 can only rely on this being comics to avoid changing the timeline too much. At this point, 616 is on the way of merely resembling MC2. While Mayday's birth is certainly the catalyst for MC2, it's not the sole defining factor.

What's weird about Mayday going back in time is how it doesn't make sense both ways. While it makes perfect sense for Mayday to go back to an early point in her universe's timeline, that would only work if it her home time period can remain a potential future of 616. Of course, I might be overthinking things (WHO'S SURPRISED?!), and the simplest explanation could just be that OMD was written after that issue of Spider-Girl, and because OMD was such a half-assed job that chose to disregard its effect on the timeline, instead opting to make Mephisto take two or three alternate forms to keep the timeline intact. OMD/OMIT prioritized the idea that you could get rid of the marriage with no consequences, limiting MC2's influence on any consideration given towards what OMD/OMIT set out to do.

I would like to believe that RYV Peter is the "original" Peter as you'd put it, although that itself raises questions that no one would consider unless you're some kind of idiot. So, you know, me. For example, if that's what we would prefer to consider 616 Peter, what does that say of the current Peter and MJ? Should they be alternate universe counterparts? Has the supporting cast slowly expanded to replace each character with counterparts from an alternate universe? Is this entire universe even still 616? Are there other universe-altering events beyond OMD, perhaps even beyond Spider-Man, that had just as powerful effects?


…I think I lost the point somewhere along the way. Perchance several years ago. Remind me not to write time travel stories.

There have been some inconsistencies about whether the MC2 is a possible future.

It's a spinoff of a What If? and according to flashbacks, seems to have diverged from the main Marvel Universe somewhere around the end of Defalco's second Amazing Spider-Man run.

However, I've gotten the impression from interviews that Defalco considers it a possible future.

[Mister Mets]

The point of divergence in the timelines is May's birth, not OMD. 616 May is dead. Because that was all up in the air at the time (oh look, Aunt May's alive???), May's What If? is about the divergence being Kaine rescuing May rather than simply whether or not she was born alive. (Although, OMD may have retconned the pregnancy itself out of continuity. OMIT's explanations for why Peter and MJ never got married was about having children. If MJ got pregnant, then taking that into consideration, she would (should) either then decided to get married or consider abortion/giving it up for adoption.)

And, if all these What If? divergent paths are different timelines, then we are not in 616 anymore. That's the problem with overwriting 20 years. If married MJ and Peter circa 2006 exist in 616, then the current MJ and Peter who were not married circa 2006 cannot also be from 616. They could have just given some sort of ad hoc handwave nonsense. But if RYV is about the deal being a split point, well then there's a problem. Because the decision in OMD is the catalyst for the timeline fork. However, the point of divergence is the wedding day.



Marvel (don't recall who specifically) has said that RYV will settle Peter's relationship status for the foreseeable future. But that can mean a lot of things. It can even mean that they're going to marry MJ off to Pedro. That settles it insomuch as MJ is no longer on the table for Peter even in that back burner sense. It could mean they pair him off with Silk, or he decides to forgo dating because of something related to his and Anna Maria's living situation. I mean, they're on record saying that some things that happen in Secret Wars are going to anger fans.

For much of the Clone Saga, Peter had quit being Spider-Man. So that part would have worked with MJ being pregnant in the post-OMD world. The biggest question would be why she and Peter didn't get married, although it might not have been as significant a priority with Aunt May (believed) dead.

[R.K.Z]

TIt's a spinoff of a What If? and according to flashbacks, seems to have diverged from the main Marvel Universe somewhere around the end of Defalco's second Amazing Spider-Man run.

I've talked to some fans about this, they reckon the point of divergence in reading order is right after when Peter and Norman were stuck in an elevator

However, I've gotten the impression from interviews that Defalco considers it a possible future.

There is a story near the end of DeFalco's run that backs that up. It's set in a far-off future where two researchers are discussing Peter's legacy and bring up the various Spiders that have appeared over the years. Mayday was amongst them in her Spider-Girl outfit. They also reckoned MJ's fate "depended on the historian", but still referred to her as his wife.

[Phantom Roxas]

Yes, they said all SW books will have elements, characters, etc carried to the main MU going forward. But we still have no idea what that main MU comprises off... Is it all 616 characters or new versions of the characters?

Depending on the direction Marvel wants to take, this story could either be the one last hurrah for the married Spider-Man or the new status quo going forward. Probably the former rather than latter but could be anywhere in between too.

My expectation is that they're going to have a "pick and choose" approach. All the domains these universe represent will be active concurrently, though the Battleworld banner itself will whittle down the numbers. RYV should theoretically pick up where OMD left off, while Spider-Verse is supposed to continue the story of the "current" Peter.

That said, I am leaning towards this being the "last hurrah" for a married Spider-Man, since Spider-Verse is a Warzones! title, suggesting that at least some elements from the book will stick around after Secret Wars.

The point of divergence in the timelines is May's birth, not OMD. 616 May is dead. Because that was all up in the air at the time (oh look, Aunt May's alive???), May's What If? is about the divergence being Kaine rescuing May rather than simply whether or not she was born alive. (Although, OMD may have retconned the pregnancy itself out of continuity. OMIT's explanations for why Peter and MJ never got married was about having children. If MJ got pregnant, then taking that into consideration, she would (should) either then decided to get married or consider abortion/giving it up for adoption.)

And, if all these What If? divergent paths are different timelines, then we are not in 616 anymore. That's the problem with overwriting 20 years. If married MJ and Peter circa 2006 exist in 616, then the current MJ and Peter who were not married circa 2006 cannot also be from 616. They could have just given some sort of ad hoc handwave nonsense. But if RYV is about the deal being a split point, well then there's a problem. Because the decision in OMD is the catalyst for the timeline fork. However, the point of divergence is the wedding day.

Yeah, pointing to the wedding day is a better way of putting it. OMD made that into a point of divergence retroactively, and there are more points of divergence after that.

There have been some inconsistencies about whether the MC2 is a possible future.

It's a spinoff of a What If? and according to flashbacks, seems to have diverged from the main Marvel Universe somewhere around the end of Defalco's second Amazing Spider-Man run.

However, I've gotten the impression from interviews that Defalco considers it a possible future.

My whole point was that the "MC2 is a possible future" idea has inconsistencies in spite of what DeFalco would consider.


By the way, Bleeding Cool summed up recent events in X-Men, pointing out that it does what JMS was prevented from doing with OMD. If you're interested. here it is.

[R.K.Z]

By the way, Bleeding Cool summed up recent events in X-Men, pointing out that it does what JMS was prevented from doing with OMD. If you're interested. here it is.

I think Bendis was able to get away with it because he was only retconning things he himself had added to the mythos. JMS wanted to undo the marriage and Sins Past at the expense of his and other people's hard work on the mythos.

[Tuck]

JMS didn't want to undo the marriage. He was told that that was the plan when he started his run.

In fact, knowing that, it feels like JMS made it his mission to write the marriage so well that Quesada would reconsider. (It would also make his feet-dragging and Alan Smithee request with OMD make more sense if his plan was to change minds so he didn't have to write the story he was told was going to happen before he even started his run.)

[R.K.Z]

JMS didn't want to undo the marriage. He was told that that was the plan when he started his run.

In fact, knowing that, it feels like JMS made it his mission to write the marriage so well that Quesada would reconsider. (It would also make his feet-dragging and Alan Smithee request with OMD make more sense if his plan was to change minds so he didn't have to write the story he was told was going to happen before he even started his run.)

I seem to recall in those post-OMD interviews Quesada tried to spin JMS' writing as Marvel wanting to "really show" how good the marriage was so fans would be emotionally invested in OMD and be upset that it was gone.

[Tuck]

They're all in sales-pitch mode most of the time. Gotta take everything with a grain of salt.

There was an interview where Quesada answered the accusation that breaking up the marriage was an editorial mandate. His response was an emphatic no, and then he started talking about how the marriage was itself an example of editorial mandate. Now, that is true . . . but what on earth does that have to do with whether or not OMD was an editorial mandate. Nevermind that if the core problem with the wedding is that it was the result of editorial mandate, then how is OMD not committing the same sin? I know he also goes into the reasons he doesn't want married Peter, but it was so much PR talk, that I can't take any official word on the event as being wholly sincere.

Maybe after Quesada moves on from Marvel and several years have passed, he'll be more plain about it all.