John Romita, Sr. reflects back on Spider-Man. Says he killed Gwen Stacy.

[Probalus]

Well, Emma's Gwen was nothing like Gwen from the comics either.

I think the comparison to Ultimate MJ is quite accurate. Peter told her his identity, she's his true high school love who is his confident, and she acts very supportive loving him both as Spidey and Peter. That's all Ulimate MJ, and a lot of that is MJ's role in 616 in later comics. Gwen never shared Peter's secret, she didn't like Spidey, she frequently blamed Peter's absence on him being a coward or maybe seeing other women...

It's really a disservice to MJ for giving Emma's Gwen so much of what made Ultimate MJ / adult 616 MJ shine in the comics. Now if they adapt MJ correctly, it won't be so unique, people may think we've seen it before with Gwen.

That's a bad comparison though. What you're describing is a ROLE that both characters (movie Gwen and Ultimate MJ) served, not a TRAIT. Their role is faithful girlfriend/partner/lover. Doesn't have anything to do with either of their characters and personalities. It's like saying ASM2 Electro is comparable to comic Doctor Ock because they were both Spidey villains and tried to destroy New York. Those are roles that different characters can serve as no matter what personalities they are.

And like I said on another thread, Ultimate MJ ISN'T EVEN MJ. She's basically the "girl next door" part of 616 MJ extracted and turn into a stereotypical "girl next door". Her personality is completely different, she's more of a geek and fits more of the "good girl" archetype that the original Gwen played. So... 616 Gwen --> Ultimate MJ --> movie Gwen... Nothing really wrong there.

[Vortex85]

It's easy to blame Conway because he wrote story and he's been the most vocal Gwen Stacy critic.




Not necessarily true. I liked Emma Stone's Gwen Stacy, but she didn't have any of the character development that 616 MJ had in the comics. I do agree that they gave Stone's Gwen some MJ qualities (such as being the confidant), but what Gwen Stacy did in the movies (and some of what MJ did in the comics) is what several love interests do nowadays. The damsel portrayal has long gone out of style. Now it's all about girl power.

She was also another "one true love". I've said this before, but 616 MJ and Peter weren't necessarily destined to be together. Through life's twists and turns, they grew up, they grew closer, and ultimately chose to be together despite their differences, which is, in my opinion, what really sets their relationship apart from the rest.

True, but it will take a lot of good films back to back films to consistently progress the characters to that point. It's almost like you need a TV show to do it more than a movie. It's going to take talent, quality, and a lot of luck to pull this off in film.

[Vortex85]

That's a bad comparison though. What you're describing is a ROLE that both characters (movie Gwen and Ultimate MJ) served, not a TRAIT. Their role is faithful girlfriend/partner/lover. Doesn't have anything to do with either of their characters and personalities. It's like saying ASM2 Electro is comparable to comic Doctor Ock because they were both Spidey villains and tried to destroy New York. Those are roles that different characters can serve as no matter what personalities they are.

And like I said on another thread, Ultimate MJ ISN'T EVEN MJ. She's basically the "girl next door" part of 616 MJ extracted and turn into a stereotypical "girl next door". Her personality is completely different, she's more of a geek and fits more of the "good girl" archetype that the original Gwen played. So... 616 Gwen --> Ultimate MJ --> movie Gwen... Nothing really wrong there.

You are right, it is more role than trait. I guess Gwen didn't necessarily take MJ's traits, she took more of her roles that have been more unique to MJ that other girls have not had with Peter.

[Naked Bat]

Conway didn't like Gwen. He has remained totally consistent on that. And he said that Emma Stone was essentially playing Mary Jane.

https://twitter.com/gerryconway/stat...06944960593923

Romita says right here that Gwen was one of his favorites.

So it's easier to say it was Gerry Conway. You don't want to be the fan criticizing John Romita, Sr.

I'm siding with conway on both accounts. Comic Gwen was lame, and stone gwen is blonde MJ. If anything, Dunst MG was red hair Gwen.

[Tupiaz]

There's a difference in somebody wanting something to happen and someone actually being responsible for it happening.

If Gerry Conway wrote the story, he takes part of the blame. If he didn't want to write it, he had other options.

Exactly, the same goes for JMS and his part in OMD and Gwen having children. If you don't want to do the story then don't.

[Scott Taylor]

I'm siding with conway on both accounts. Comic Gwen was lame, and stone gwen is blonde MJ. If anything, Dunst MG was red hair Gwen.

Pretty much true.

To be completely fair, Emma Stone Gwen was a combination of Ultimate MJ and 616 Gwen just due to the involvement of Captain Stacy. There were moments that were pretty similar to Romita's work with Gwen and Captain Stacy, even if personality was more like Ultimate MJ.

Also, Ultimate MJ is not the same as 616 MJ. But Ultimate MJ is also nothing at all like any Gwen anywhere. She is kind of an amalgam of all of Peter's different love interests. And at the time they probably chose MJ to be the face of that character because of the Spider-marriage. Or because Bendis just liked MJ more than any of the rest.

[Probalus]

Also, Ultimate MJ is not the same as 616 MJ. But Ultimate MJ is also nothing at all like any Gwen anywhere. She is kind of an amalgam of all of Peter's different love interests. And at the time they probably chose MJ to be the face of that character because of the Spider-marriage. Or because Bendis just liked MJ more than any of the rest.

I compared Ultimate MJ to 616 Gwen because they served similar roles (which the previous poster was using as a basis for comparing movie Gwen and Ultimate MJ). They were both made to be ideal companions to Pete and both served the generic good girl archetype (though using standards from very different eras). It makes sense that a modern 616 Gwen would be written like Ultimate MJ. However, a modern 1960s MJ is as far as Ultimate MJ as you can get.

And I don't see how Ultimate MJ is an amalgam of anything. She's a new character through and through.

[Confuzzled]

So... 616 Gwen --> Ultimate MJ --> movie Gwen... Nothing really wrong there.

I don't see how 616 Gwen --> Ultimate MJ in any way. In the Ditko years, she was too busy being an obnoxious Ayn Rand novel heroine and in the Romita years she kept fluctuating between being the typical damsel in distress and aping 616 MJ.

[Frontier]

Apologies if this derails the thread but...where would the Spider Man Loves Mary-Jane version of MJ fall around the spectrum between the 616 and Ultimate versions? Closer to the former, the latter, or is also a completely different interpretation of her?

Very interesting, fun, and enlightening interview with Mr. Romita. Really liked getting to know more about his history, working with Stan, and the development of Gwen's death. Hope I can read those collected strips someday .

[Darth Kal-el]

Exactly, the same goes for JMS and his part in OMD and Gwen having children. If you don't want to do the story then don't.

as far as JMS and OMD he didn't. He barely wrote part three and didn't write part four. Quesada did. JMS didn't want his name in the credits but they put it there anyway.

[Aruran.]

Apologies if this derails the thread but...where would the Spider Man Loves Mary-Jane version of MJ fall around the spectrum between the 616 and Ultimate versions? Closer to the former, the latter, or is also a completely different interpretation of her?

Very interesting, fun, and enlightening interview with Mr. Romita. Really liked getting to know more about his history, working with Stan, and the development of Gwen's death. Hope I can read those collected strips someday .

Probably closer to 616 than 1610.
A lot more similar interest to 616 than 1610. To be completely fair she is a more of her on take then a mirror image of the other 2.

[R.K.Z]

didn't write part four. Quesada did..

Quesada was the one who gave MJ the "nothing can destroy our love and we'll get back together one day" speech before reality changed? Very interesting given what he then does with the characters in his other "magnum opus" OMIT.

[Lee]

Curious, but did Stan Lee ever say anything about Gwen's death back when she died? I do know he created her.

Steve Ditko was plotting Amazing Spider-Man by himself when Gwen was introduced. Stan wrote her dialogue, maybe even named her, but he didn't create Gwen.

[Tupiaz]

as far as JMS and OMD he didn't. He barely wrote part three and didn't write part four. Quesada did. JMS didn't want his name in the credits but they put it there anyway.

Any link for this? As i have heard JMS allowed his name to be on the cover in respect for Marvel and Joe Quesada.

[Darth Kal-el]

I have read so many articles in those days I cannot pin point it but if I remember correctly. Quesada said JMS' final issues were not congruent with what BND had going and it was all ready to go. Quesada said JMS went off plan without informing them. Makes me wonder why. Was he purposely trying to sabotage but who knows that is just a guess. So they had to be rewritten and Quesada did it. JMS in his interviews said it wasn't his story and didn't want his name on the last issue but I guess since he was writing Thor at the time before he got screwed again he relented. I don't think we will ever know what truly happened behind the scenes.