Runaways Appreciation 2018

[Johnrevenge]

Don't forget, in #13 there was that moment where he was wondering to himself if Nico's power could be controlled by others, and then inquired about her powers again in #15, and now in this issue he's coming up with a plan that'll get him god-like powers. It never felt to me like he was hanging with them because he wanted to, but out of necessity for his own survival. And all these little hints seem to imply that he is still looking for power in some way.

And while his actions could be rationalized, and he would be useful in a situation like this, he hasn't really done anything to warrant the rest of them accepting him with open arms, or showing if he actually does care about them, all while still remaining pretty sketchy regarding his true motivations.

Exactly, I think the Runaways shouldn't trust him at all.

[Beetle]

spoilers:

I amend my previous speculation, I think Doombot might leave with Alex but not Gib

end of spoilers

But maybe I just feel that Alex is getting the short end of the stick when compared to Chase. The only consequence Chase faced for betraying the group to make a deal with the same people Alex did was the team losing their home. No one really brings that up, their betrayals not be equal but they're certainly comparable.

Chase was just going to feed the Gibborim once by sacrificing himself to bring Gert back. Alex's plan was to kill everyone else (but Nico), their parents and the entirety of humanity. Their betrayals are completely different.

[Fokken]

spoilers:

I amend my previous speculation, I think Doombot might leave with Alex but not Gib

end of spoilers



Chase was just going to feed the Gibborim once by sacrificing himself to bring Gert back. Alex's plan was to kill everyone else (but Nico), their parents and the entirety of humanity. Their betrayals are completely different.

With respect for Personamanx's evident adoration of the character, I must agree.

Additionally, whether he was driven by a fear, or love for his family, or self preservation or (from his very messed up perspective) or whatever, the guy was willing to allow EVERYONE to die, save for the 6 people he chose. Whatever his reasoning, and whether or not one can empathize/understand it-- it was still a dick move, putting it lightly.
Factoring in aaaaaaaaaaaaaall the shady and damning behavior post resurrection? C'mon.

I'm not saying he isn't enjoyable to read, but.... yeah. The guy's actions thus far have been self serving.

[Personamanx]

Alex's plan wasn't to kill anyone, he just accepted he couldn't stop what had already been set in motion, and made the best of it. Chase's plan was for them to bring back Gert, not caring that the Gibborim would presumably start another Pride. The only difference is if either had been successful those who would be granted immortality would have been different.

Alex went along with it, but Chase would have had it restart from scratch. The betrayals are totally comparable.

[Beetle]

Alex's plan wasn't to kill anyone, he just accepted he couldn't stop what had already been set in motion, and made the best of it. Chase's plan was for them to bring back Gert, not caring that the Gibborim would presumably start another Pride. The only difference is if either had been successful those who would be granted immortality would have been different.

Alex went along with it, but Chase would have had it restart from scratch. The betrayals are totally comparable.

Alex's plan was to stop anyone who could have prevented the Gibborim's plans to end humanity, to use the Runaways as pawns to save his parents. What did he think his parents were going to do to the Hayes and the Deans after the Rite? Or the Steins and the Yorkes? That they'd just stand by while his parents and the Minorus took the place of their children?
What did he think was going to happen to Karolina, Molly, Gert and Chase? His plan was always going to end in deaths.
He betrayed Cloak and Dagger and got them mindwiped so that they couldn't warn the rest of the superhero community.

If Chase had let the Gibborim start a new Pride, then at least Gert and the other Runaways would still be around to try to stop it since they would know what Chase had done to bring her back. And the Avengers would know that the last group existed and could be prepared to intervene this time.

[Johnrevenge]

Alex's plan was to stop anyone who could have prevented the Gibborim's plans to end humanity, to use the Runaways as pawns to save his parents. What did he think his parents were going to do to the Hayes and the Deans after the Rite? Or the Steins and the Yorkes? That they'd just stand by while his parents and the Minorus took the place of their children?
What did he think was going to happen to Karolina, Molly, Gert and Chase? His plan was always going to end in deaths.
He betrayed Cloak and Dagger and got them mindwiped so that they couldn't warn the rest of the superhero community.

If Chase had let the Gibborim start a new Pride, then at least Gert and the other Runaways would still be around to try to stop it since they would know what Chase had done to bring her back. And the Avengers would know that the last group existed and could be prepared to intervene this time.

Also, when Alex found out about Pride, he saw them as heroes, so yeah he didn't care for humanity at all. He only decided to participate when he found the Deans and Hayes plan of killing the others.

When Chase betrayed the team, at least he gave them a chance a last hope somehow (as Nico said, it was his way to ask for help in a desperate way).

[Personamanx]

Alex's plan was to stop anyone who could have prevented the Gibborim's plans to end humanity, to use the Runaways as pawns to save his parents. What did he think his parents were going to do to the Hayes and the Deans after the Rite? Or the Steins and the Yorkes? That they'd just stand by while his parents and the Minorus took the place of their children?
What did he think was going to happen to Karolina, Molly, Gert and Chase? His plan was always going to end in deaths.
He betrayed Cloak and Dagger and got them mindwiped so that they couldn't warn the rest of the superhero community.

If Chase had let the Gibborim start a new Pride, then at least Gert and the other Runaways would still be around to try to stop it since they would know what Chase had done to bring her back. And the Avengers would know that the last group existed and could be prepared to intervene this time.

Yeah, presumably he accepted they would have all died if not immediately then within a few years with the rest of humanity. That isn't admirable, but it's still just him dealing with something already set in motion. He paid the ultimate price for it, but unfortunately that's largely meaningless in comics. He's back, and appears to be the only one whose serious about fixing their current problem.

If I recall correctly they wouldn't have remembered Chase. Part of the deal is that he would have been completely erased. What anyone would know about Chase's deal with the Gibborim would be put into question, even if he did lay out what he was doing to Nico. How things would have played out if he was successful is anyone's guess. But he decided that Gert was worth the chance of dooming humanity, and even in failure everyone suffered for his betrayal. He didn't even learn anything from the experience.

Even ignoring Iron Man Legacy evidence suggests that the Avengers just don't care about the Pride/Gibborim after they were initially defeated. They don't even keep close tabs on the two of the kids that were members. I guess Hank Pym would have been paying attention to Victor, the real Hank after Secret Invasion but that's about it.

If this is the hill I die on, I can accept that. But whether Alex deserves to be at the table or not, I think Chase should be right there next to him.

[Beetle]

Yeah, presumably he accepted they would have all died if not immediately then within a few years with the rest of humanity. That isn't admirable, but it's still just him dealing with something already set in motion. He paid the ultimate price for it, but unfortunately that's largely meaningless in comics. He's back, and appears to be the only one whose serious about fixing their current problem.

If I recall correctly they wouldn't have remembered Chase. Part of the deal is that he would have been completely erased. What anyone would know about Chase's deal with the Gibborim would be put into question, even if he did lay out what he was doing to Nico. How things would have played out if he was successful is anyone's guess. But he decided that Gert was worth the chance of dooming humanity, and even in failure everyone suffered for his betrayal. He didn't even learn anything from the experience.

It's been a while since I read volume 2 so you're probably right about the Gibborim erasing everyone's memories of Chase.
But I just don't think it's equivocal. It really comes down to the difference between the two of them, Alex is always thinking about the big picture and Chase is more shortsighted. Alex specifically knew that he was dooming all of humanity with his actions, Chase was only thinking about Gert, it's a difference in motivation.
Chase only really wanted to hurt himself, he wasn't thinking about long term consequences, he was grieving. Alex specifically knew what he was doing and what would happen if he did it, planetary genocide, that's sociopathic.

Even ignoring Iron Man Legacy evidence suggests that the Avengers just don't care about the Pride/Gibborim after they were initially defeated. They don't even keep close tabs on the two of the kids that were members. I guess Hank Pym would have been paying attention to Victor, the real Hank after Secret Invasion but that's about it.

No argument here about the Avengers being jerks who only show up when it's convenient. But thats more on the constraints of the shared universe and the genre. The narrative requires the Runaways to be isolated.

If this is the hill I die on, I can accept that. But whether Alex deserves to be at the table or not, I think Chase should be right there next to him.

It's an interesting arguest, and I can see your side.

Personally I think they should just let Alex go to be an uneasy ally. Kinda like how the FF are forced to accept that Dr. Doom is better off in power in Latveria than any alternatives

[Johnrevenge]

In Iron Man legacy it wasn't the Avengers the one who appeared, those were the Illuminaty.

[Personamanx]

I do agree, their respective actions aren't quite equivocal. Even if the hypothetical consequences are largely the same, Alex went along/worked within something terrible because he could rationalize it as being okay. Re-instigating something nearly identical out of short sighted grief isn't quite as bad, it's certainly more sympathetic.

I appreciate both characters enough, that I would like to see Chase realize how bad things could have gotten if Alex had not intervened. Chase has been on the ball more than I would expect in this volume, a little self-awareness could come in handy. It'd at least make working together easier.

Yes, it was the Illuminati but you'd expect them to see the Pride as something Iron Man and a few Avengers could resolve. I do suppose their relative ineffectiveness is well known however.

[Inversed]

It's been a while since I read volume 2 so you're probably right about the Gibborim erasing everyone's memories of Chase.
But I just don't think it's equivocal. It really comes down to the difference between the two of them, Alex is always thinking about the big picture and Chase is more shortsighted. Alex specifically knew that he was dooming all of humanity with his actions, Chase was only thinking about Gert, it's a difference in motivation.
Chase only really wanted to hurt himself, he wasn't thinking about long term consequences, he was grieving. Alex specifically knew what he was doing and what would happen if he did it, planetary genocide, that's sociopathic.

I do think ultimately the main thing is that not only did Chase recognize what he tried to do was wrong, but that he genuinely cares for the other Runaways, and wants to help them all as a family, which is why they accept and forgive him. I don't know if Alex genuinely likes or cares about the other Runaways, or if they are just useful tools. Even Nico I think he cares more about her power potential than her as herself.

[Fokken]

I do think ultimately the main thing is that not only did Chase recognize what he tried to do was wrong, but that he genuinely cares for the other Runaways, and wants to help them all as a family, which is why they accept and forgive him. I don't know if Alex genuinely likes or cares about the other Runaways, or if they are just useful tools. Even Nico I think he cares more about her power potential than her as herself.

And the LOVE that Chase has is reflected in his willingness to sacrifice himself to bring back Gert. However ill advised it was, whatever subsequent pain it may have wrought, his actions came from a place of love and pain. Chase was ready TO DIE for someone he loved.
Alex's actions may also have been motivated by love and pain, but his actions were also self serving. He was willing to let everything around him die, save for himself and those he chose. I absolutely understand that Alex's situation is vastly different, BUT.... no matter how you paint that picture, no matter what brush you use, he chose himself. Molly, Gert, Chase, Nico and Karolina chose to resist.

And his post resurrection resume is anything but flowery.

[Wiccan]

Alex is trash. #ProtectGibAtAllCosts

[Johnrevenge]

Alex is trash. #ProtectGibAtAllCosts

I second that.

[Personamanx]

I just want my Alex Wilder/Glob Herman team-up series. #GibEatsBabies

spoilers:

Also after this issue does anyone else think that Gert might go back in time Two-ish years to close off the Faux-Gert storyline, and bring her more close to Chase's age again.

end of spoilers