Wonder Woman Romances

[Majesty]

I agree that the Steve/Diana relationship wasn't handled very well, but I'm sure it's cause DC had already decided to do Supes/WW and just wanted to get Steve out of the way as quickly as possible.

It's a shame when comics do stuff like that JUST for such a storyline to take place.

[Sacred Knight]

Don't see what was so bad about it considering how all the characters turned out. Even with the relationship part glossed over, Steve still was getting used and was way more relevant than his last pre-Crisis appearance. And that storyline was eventually parlayed in an extra title for both Superman and Wonder Woman, so they came out pretty good too.

[Usagi Yojimbo]

I wouldn't mind having Steve Trevor back, but only because I read the old Showcase volumes and I enjoy watching him trying to protect Wonder Woman by attacking the bad guys and completely failing.

[Blacksun]

It's a shame when comics do stuff like that JUST for such a storyline to take place.

yeah, it's plot driven and doesn't care about the characters. Trevor, Cheetah was more about leading WW to a romance with superman than about herself and those relationships. superman and ww kissing, while trevor is on the hospital? pretty bad for both

I wouldn't mind having Steve Trevor back, but only because I read the old Showcase volumes and I enjoy watching him trying to protect Wonder Woman by attacking the bad guys and completely failing.

that is cute. In '77 he really helps WW

[Vanguard-01]

Personally? I kind of like the idea of Diana as more of a "serial monogamist."

To really explore Diana's loving nature, I think it would be best to have her take on multiple romances from as wide a range of options as possible.

Go ahead and say Diana has had a relationship with one or two of her Amazon sisters. Let Steve be the first man she ever loved. Let her be with Batwoman. Heck, she doesn't even have to be limited to human lovers. Let her take on a relationship with a god or other mythological beings. Aliens are fair game as well, so at least a brief thing with Superman is doable.

The important thing is, as I said, to present Diana as a serial monogamist. She's a "one lover at a time" kind of gal. She's been with many people, but each one gets her full and undivided attention the entire time she's with him/her. Her relationships are real and passionate things. They only tend to end when Diana (or her current partner) decides that their time together is done. Some relationships may end badly, but most end with a very mature breakup.

This gives the option of putting Diana in many relationships, with many different types of people. The nature of her many relationships can also vary wildly. Mostly, Diana prefers (IMO) relationships with people who respect her and treat her right, but she could explore a relationship with more of a "bad boy/girl" type of character like Batman or Orion as well. Sometimes she's the dominant in a relationship. Sometimes she takes a more submissive stance. Sometimes she's in a relationship where she and her partner trade places from time to time.

Diana loves everybody. I honestly think the best way to show that is to let her explore a whole range of possibilities and combinations. If something really resonates with the fans? Maybe THAT's the relationship that becomes Diana's one true pairing.

[Blacksun]

The Feminists you listed there would rather the wonder woman comic go back to the way the book was written before and not be written in the DC universe at all (Which is something that might be popular in these boards, not that I put blame on that, the character hasn't had the best of times in the DC universe)
Which probably means that they really wouldn't like the Batman Wonder Woman Relationship that you adore so much, because as much as Superman supposedly overshadows her in the relationship I imagine a character who is famous for stealing the limelight from characters ever since the dark knight returns would probably end up doing the same(well I say probably, it already did happen in the justice league cartoon) so I find that funny you bring it up with no regard how that might affect your Favourite pairing, as the saying goes people in glass houses.
And while I'm at it who died and made you the decider on what is sexist and what isn't, because if this relationship is sexist and problematic I imagine more of a uproar would be made about it, especially on official reviews. So don't throw words like "sexist" and "problematic" at the pairing just because you don't like it, because it just cheapens the movement that the words are connected to and just makes it something to be used in a argument against something you don't like and make people who are on the opposite end of the argument look like something their not. Feminism is something bigger than something to be used in petty arguments.

depends on who does the reviews, there is many interests in doing good reviews. The feminist sites comics alliance, women write about comics, mary sue, DCWKA, tim hanley, geek mom didn't liked the book or the relationship, so it's not about what I liked or not.
Batman can be more famous than ww, but he can't be more stronger phisically.
you still need to convince me smww is not problematic. let's see another pair I don't like zatanna and constantine, I think it is sexist? no. hawkeye and jessica is sexist? no. it's not about what I don't that I will label it badly.

[Vanguard-01]

Batman can be more famous than ww, but he can't be more stronger phisically.

Batman doesn't need to be physically stronger than Diana. If they come into conflict, he'll drop her with some contrived takedown that renders all her powers worthless. Her strength means nothing against him. Superman? He may be able to beat Diana in a fight, but it will actually be a fight.

And a BM/WW relationship would also mean they'd be sharing their villains, just as Diana and Clark are sharing their villains in SM/WW now. Problem is? Diana should be able to wipe out Batman's entire rogues gallery in about ten seconds. Will DC allow Wonder Woman to do this? Nope! They will find ways to have Joker, Riddler, and Two-Face take down Diana and make her look like a joke. Meanwhile, Batman will also go up against Diana's rogues, and he's been taking down vastly more powerful enemies for decades now. Diana's rogues will look pathetic going down to Batman, while Batman's rogues will have to be exaggerated beyond belief in order to make them a threat to Diana.

[Blacksun]

That's why I didn't say everyone. I know some laughably claim sexism. Old JLU fans are mad because it isn't Batman. Some WW fans are mad because its not Steve. I know its not everyone, hence why I said the majority. And from my experience, I stand by that.


No its not. Never has been. Who Superman dates is not paramount to his characterization unless he suddenly starts eying mass murdering villainesses or something crazy like that. Made up shipper rules shockingly don't count.

In the end your logic just makes no sense. You claim that Superman and Wonder Woman has sexist overtones (a completely ludicrous claim no matter who purports it but regardless, some grab onto this thin straw), then you talk about Orion who was a flat out chauvinist, no overtones needed, about being able to be redeemed. That makes him a suitable partner? You have a problem with Wonder Woman being with Superman, a genuine good guy, because of phantom overtones, but you want her with a proven chauvinist because he can be redeemed? I just don't know what universe I"m living in where Wonder Woman with a guy who loves her and treats her well=sexism, where as chauvinist who slaps her on the ass and calls her name= not at all sexist, but awesome! Because she can fix him!!111

If by some you wanna mean the majority... It's weird see how feminists get discredit so easy, I still look to see a feminist who likes and supports smww.

well superman characterization was always afraid of telling Lois his secret and then he oversomes the fear and open to her. post-crisis, lois & clark, Smallville. this is something huge on his characterization from the last 30 years.
if smww doesn't has sexist overtone and me and many feminists like Lepore( that is a scholar from Harvard and studied WW character from depth) are SO wrong, explain me why smww isn't sexist or any problematic;


well I'm tired of genuine good guys claiming ownership over women. It shouldn't work like this. Buffy, carol danvers, jessica drew had their share of bad relationships and that doesn't mean they are less feminists. At least Buffy and carol danvers made the top 10 feminists characters from marie claire. WW is losing touch with the readership she should be. If dc had the intention and probably has that ww is not a feminists, they are reaching their objectives.

why orion can't be redeemed? he still more positive than negative, he helped WW without ask nothing in return. WW is about second chances, why WW couldn't give him a second chance?
Azz and marston WW is all about 2nd chances.

[DochaDocha]

And a BM/WW relationship would also mean they'd be sharing their villains, just as Diana and Clark are sharing their villains in SM/WW now. Problem is? Diana should be able to wipe out Batman's entire rogues gallery in about ten seconds. Will DC allow Wonder Woman to do this? Nope! They will find ways to have Joker, Riddler, and Two-Face take down Diana and make her look like a joke. Meanwhile, Batman will also go up against Diana's rogues, and he's been taking down vastly more powerful enemies for decades now. Diana's rogues will look pathetic going down to Batman, while Batman's rogues will have to be exaggerated beyond belief in order to make them a threat to Diana.

As an aside, this is why Loeb's Superman/Batman, and now Pak's Batman/Superman, generally concentrate on the Superman side of villains.

Anyway, if you love hero-vs.-hero fights, that's another reason to support Diana/Darkseid. Then she'd have to fight Darkseid's villains, i.e. the heroes.

Go team Darkana.

[Sacred Knight]

It's weird see how feminists get discredit so easy, I still look to see a feminist who likes and supports smww.

Personally rejecting a singlular claim is not the same thing as rejecting feminism altogether.

well I'm tired of genuine good guys claiming ownership over women.

Only problem is this idea of "claiming ownership" is completely fabricated in your mind, with nothing to back it up. You're basically just using the idea of feminism as a tool to prop up your hate of a fictional relationship. Which to me is more damaging to feminism than anything else. Now, in regards to a girl genuinely falling for a good guy, how can this be tiring when for the past decade at least, the more popular trope has been "bad boy gets the girl"?

why orion can't be redeemed?

First off? He shouldn't have to be redeemed in this regard in the first place. He should have never been written that way. That's not Orion. But, that's what went down and I can't change that now. In regards to second chances, I'm all for that. But she doesn't have to be romantically involved with the character to do so. I mean, what a reputation to give your most iconic superheroine. She fixes damaged men by hooking up with them. Again, I don't know what universe I'm in in which this is just fine and dandy but her falling in love with a great guy like Clark is sexist. Just complete, staggering BS to me.

[The Kid]

I don't care one way or the other for the Superman-Wonder Woman relationship but sexist it is not. Clark's a good guy who treats her well and as an equal. I really don't see anything sexist about it. I prefer it to the classic cocky guy gets the woman. Sure, it happens in real life but I can't see it working on Wonder Woman at all. She's an alpha female. Any person trying to talk down to her would be punched back in the face. Treating her as an equal, like Superman does, is the correct foundation for a relationship

[Majesty]

Batman doesn't need to be physically stronger than Diana. If they come into conflict, he'll drop her with some contrived takedown that renders all her powers worthless. Her strength means nothing against him. Superman? He may be able to beat Diana in a fight, but it will actually be a fight.

And a BM/WW relationship would also mean they'd be sharing their villains, just as Diana and Clark are sharing their villains in SM/WW now. Problem is? Diana should be able to wipe out Batman's entire rogues gallery in about ten seconds. Will DC allow Wonder Woman to do this? Nope! They will find ways to have Joker, Riddler, and Two-Face take down Diana and make her look like a joke. Meanwhile, Batman will also go up against Diana's rogues, and he's been taking down vastly more powerful enemies for decades now. Diana's rogues will look pathetic going down to Batman, while Batman's rogues will have to be exaggerated beyond belief in order to make them a threat to Diana.

That would make sense if in near every scenario where Bruce is being to "Bruce Wayne" for his own good it's Wonder Woman he goes up against because he knows it will put him in his place.

They spar with each other and when Wonder Woman doesn't user her powers and her and Batman just go hand and hand he's as much a warrior and the only person whom can match her at that level. But the honest truth is if he ever stands in the way of things and she HAS to beat him down she does so till he submits to her.

There's not been a time where Batman has curb stomped Wonder Woman like nothing. I've seen Superman do it though.

One of Wonder Woman's weaknesses is actually the fact her powers ARE rendered useless if you tie both of her bracelets together, so it's funny you say that.


But Wonder Woman has put Bruce in his place more often than not. In fact when he puts himself in situations where he KNOWS he isn't going to be stopped any other way he trusts Diana will be the one that stops him. That says something right there.


If Wonder Woman and Batman fought with the use of powers Batman would lose and he KNOWS that. That is one important thing that's hit on.

As far as sharing "rogues galleries" and such. Then there'd be no reason to involve Superman in a relationship or friendship with any hero because Superman essentially being the most powerful and the most unbeatable could go through every heroes rogue gallery. There's literally no villain that's going to defeat him without the help of Kryptonite. He's more or less a God.

The truth of the matter is Superheroes don't always live in the same places or always crossover with each other, and they appear in each others comics from time to time but they have their alone time.

Does Wonder Woman appear in every single Superman comic to help him with his villains? No she doesn't and why should she? She's doing her own thing.

When Batman and Wonder Woman dated in the comic books the 'rogues gallery' didn't matter that much.


What would happen if Batman and Wonder Woman dated? They'd occasionally do crossovers where they faced a foe bigger than just what he could handle(because villains crossover too which is a point that's missed upon when mentioning Wonder Woman could go through Batman's rogues gallery, one of his villains could easily crossover with the other and create a scenario he himself can't handle and one of the justice league would help(Wonder Woman in this case) it's happened before it will happen a thousand times and their relationship will be unaffected by it) and share moments of alone time before she went off to handle things of her own business. And he would have his own comic series where he deals with the situations in Gotham.


This whole "Superheroes can't date if one's Rogue Gallery is weaker than the other." is a cop out and shouldn't be the reasoning behind it.


Why did Lois and Clark work? She's a human.. what help can she do to him as Superman when he can just beat everyone with the snap of his fingers? It was how she could help that made him admire her, in Clark's eyes SHE was the real Superwoman and she did it without powers. The same kind of reasons Diana fell in love with Bruce Wayne among many of the other things.


The very reason Superman and WW are together in the New-52 is because Superman(despite living among them) doesn't relate to humans as well which is why the New52 Superman gets on a lot of fans bad side.


THIS entire upcoming storyarc where he loses his powers and has to be human is to PUT him back in the place he should be, he gets to see what it means to actually be human, relates to them, sees their bravery, and sees what's important.

In many ways it's likely the arc that's going to send him leaning more towards Lois(because we know they're getting together eventually). But it seems like THIS arc is going to be the pre-curser that matures Superman and eventually him and WW will break up. It will go bad. But it's going to happen.

Because this "loss of powers" storyarc is gonna start Clark down the path of being the Superman we all know and love. I'm pretty confident in that actually.

[Vanguard-01]

They spar with each other and when Wonder Woman doesn't user her powers and her and Batman just go hand and hand he's as much a warrior and the only person whom can match her at that level. But the honest truth is if he ever stands in the way of things and she HAS to beat him down she does so till he submits to her.

That was sparring. In an actual fight, where Bruce is really out to win? That's when he busts out the prep time "I win" stuff.

There's not been a time where Batman has curb stomped Wonder Woman like nothing. I've seen Superman do it though.

Batman dropped her by kicking her in the stomach once. That's it. One kick. To the stomach. Wonder Woman down.

One of Wonder Woman's weaknesses is actually the fact her powers ARE rendered useless if you tie both of her bracelets together, so it's funny you say that.

That weakness has been gone since the Perez era. Nowadays, Diana has NO weaknesses whatsoever. Nothing neutralizes her powers. Nothing drops her like Kryptonite.

But Wonder Woman has put Bruce in his place more often than not. In fact when he puts himself in situations where he KNOWS he isn't going to be stopped any other way he trusts Diana will be the one that stops him. That says something right there.

Wrong.

He never says anything about trusting Diana to take him out.

If Wonder Woman and Batman fought with the use of powers Batman would lose and he KNOWS that. That is one important thing that's hit on.

Wrong again. He routinely beats Superman with his prep time powers. Wonder Woman is no different.

He just beat her with an anti version of her Lasso a couple months ago. He also beat DARKSEID, singlehandedly, in that same month.

Batman can beat anyone if the writer wants him to beat them. Batman goes against Diana? He can annihilate her as easily as when he goes up against Superman.

As far as sharing "rogues galleries" and such. Then there'd be no reason to involve Superman in a relationship or friendship with any hero because Superman essentially being the most powerful and the most unbeatable could go through every heroes rogue gallery. There's literally no villain that's going to defeat him without the help of Kryptonite. He's more or less a God.

Really?

Is that why Diana has only lost to ONE of Superman's rogues since their relationship got started? Doomsday. That's it. She's lost to Doomsday. Once. She also beat Zod and Faora and even Mongul.

Sounds to me like Diana does just fine against Superman's rogues.

Superman, meanwhile, just got taken down in two seconds by Circe and will have to be saved by Diana.

Does Wonder Woman appear in every single Superman comic to help him with his villains? No she doesn't and why should she? She's doing her own thing.

And when she and Bruce do crossover (as happens a lot with heroes in a relationship) then she has to deal with his rogues as well. And the only way that isn't a squash match is she gets nerfed to crap against them.

When Batman and Wonder Woman dated in the comic books the 'rogues gallery' didn't matter that much.

That's because they went on ONE date in the comics. They didn't have a relationship. They kissed a couple times, went on one date, and then it was all over.

What would happen if Batman and Wonder Woman dated?

It would be just like SM/WW is now. The difference? Bruce's rogues can't hurt her without nerfing her. Batman, on the other hand, can beat anyone in her rogues gallery plus his own.

Why did Lois and Clark work? She's a human.. what help can she do to him as Superman when he can just beat everyone with the snap of his fingers? It was how she could help that made him admire her, in Clark's eyes SHE was the real Superwoman and she did it without powers. The same kind of reasons Diana fell in love with Bruce Wayne among many of the other things.

Lois never charged into battle alongside Clark. That wasn't her role in their relationship. She was a partner in his life. Not his career as a superhero.

She rarely DID help him in his heroic career, except to occasionally pull him out of a death trap or two. But she never defeated any of his rogues without special circumstances.

In many ways it's likely the arc that's going to send him leaning more towards Lois(because we know they're getting together eventually). But it seems like THIS arc is going to be the pre-curser that matures Superman and eventually him and WW will break up. It will go bad. But it's going to happen.

That's your opinion. I don't agree. You can't prove I'm wrong, and you can't prove I'm wrong. Only time will tell.

Because this "loss of powers" storyarc is gonna start Clark down the path of being the Superman we all know and love. I'm pretty confident in that actually.

You are aware that he only loses his powers for twenty-four hours, right? That's an awfully short time for him to magically decide he's with the wrong woman.

[DochaDocha]

There's not been a time where Batman has curb stomped Wonder Woman like nothing.

I so wish this were true... Many of us are still angry about that Batman Confidential #53 nonsense... One fricken hit to the solar plexus and she was done.

One of Wonder Woman's weaknesses is actually the fact her powers ARE rendered useless if you tie both of her bracelets together, so it's funny you say that.

This hasn't been true in three decades.

[Majesty]

That was sparring. In an actual fight, where Bruce is really out to win? That's when he busts out the prep time "I win" stuff.



Batman dropped her by kicking her in the stomach once. That's it. One kick. To the stomach. Wonder Woman down.



That weakness has been gone since the Perez era. Nowadays, Diana has NO weaknesses whatsoever. Nothing neutralizes her powers. Nothing drops her like Kryptonite.



Wrong.

He never says anything about trusting Diana to take him out.



Wrong again. He routinely beats Superman with his prep time powers. Wonder Woman is no different.

He just beat her with an anti version of her Lasso a couple months ago. He also beat DARKSEID, singlehandedly, in that same month.

Batman can beat anyone if the writer wants him to beat them. Batman goes against Diana? He can annihilate her as easily as when he goes up against Superman.



Really?

Is that why Diana has only lost to ONE of Superman's rogues since their relationship got started? Doomsday. That's it. She's lost to Doomsday. Once. She also beat Zod and Faora and even Mongul.

Sounds to me like Diana does just fine against Superman's rogues.

Superman, meanwhile, just got taken down in two seconds by Circe and will have to be saved by Diana.



And when she and Bruce do crossover (as happens a lot with heroes in a relationship) then she has to deal with his rogues as well. And the only way that isn't a squash match is she gets nerfed to crap against them.



That's because they went on ONE date in the comics. They didn't have a relationship. They kissed a couple times, went on one date, and then it was all over.



It would be just like SM/WW is now. The difference? Bruce's rogues can't hurt her without nerfing her. Batman, on the other hand, can beat anyone in her rogues gallery plus his own.



Lois never charged into battle alongside Clark. That wasn't her role in their relationship. She was a partner in his life. Not his career as a superhero.

She rarely DID help him in his heroic career, except to occasionally pull him out of a death trap or two. But she never defeated any of his rogues without special circumstances.



That's your opinion. I don't agree. You can't prove I'm wrong, and you can't prove I'm wrong. Only time will tell.



You are aware that he only loses his powers for twenty-four hours, right? That's an awfully short time for him to magically decide he's with the wrong woman.

It may be for only 24 hours. But I'm pretty sure he's going to have a lot of growth during that time. Don't forget how smart the guy is. There's a LOT he can learn in that span of time. Those 24 hours he's going to take a LOT from imo. I think that's a major point of this upcoming comic. We shall see though.

As far as Bruce goes. I've seen Wonder Woman curb stomp him on many an occasion. One in particular where he bowed down to her after she told him not to get up after beating him to a near pulp. I forget which one it was though.

And as I said with "rogues galleries" that villains crossover as well and that's a very easy thing to fix if your writing is good enough without Wonder Woman being "nerfed".

And it sounds like your point or perspective as far as Batman and Wonder Woman goes is that they both are fully capable of going through each other's Rogue's Galleries if Batman has "prep". Wouldn't that nullify the argument that they shouldn't be together because Wonder Woman can go through his rogues gallery if that is the case? Or am I missing your point.

And yes, Lois was and will be Clark's partner in life and superpowers won't matter when it comes to their relationship. Because what ultimately matters is that you be partners in life more than if one is stronger than the other. It's the same reasons why Diana and Steve work together. He is human but he can help even if it needs 'Special circumstances'.

The point is that all couples in comic book when it comes to whether Superman and Lois or Superman and Wonder Woman date or whether Batman dates no one, Catwoman, Talia or Wonder Woman.

At the end of the day it all depends on the writer and how they're able to suspend our disbelief. It's very simple to make Batman's rogues gallery. Particularly if two villains crossover with another leaving him no option but to need help, and Wonder Woman COULD intervene. The same kind of things when Superman and Batman crossover to work together. How would it be different with Batman and Wonder Woman? There have been TONS of fantastic crossovers with Batman and Superman and many times against foes and different galleries. The stories also worked.

So when a story is written correctly then it's very applicable. Particularly when Villains crossover to present a problem Batman can't deal with by himself or a problem where he would need help from an outside source. Wonder Woman could do that rather easily. It's about dealing with the problem and isn't as simple as "fly over to the villains house hit them once and we win." It's about solving the problem BEFORE confronting the villain and this has been and can be done very well if you present a big enough problem that is bigger than what Batman can handle by himself. Those kinds of problems do exist and as I said, it's up to the writer to create them and make US believe them.