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  1. #301
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProcessedMeatMan View Post
    Has it been explained - within the story - how Doom's Battleworld is comprised of 40 segments from 40 other universes... when there were only two universes left when Secret Wars began?

    I suppose what I'm asking is... if everything/everywhere else was already destroyed, how did they end up in Secret Wars?
    This is my whole issue with only 2 universes left and Doom saves them, along with a bunch of other ones, which in the grand scheme of things are just selling points and will have no effect on where we are going.

  2. #302
    Incredible Member JLS Comics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh77 View Post
    I don't know if you'd class this as a theory or an interpretation of Secret Wars, but here it goes. I think the Beyonders are supposed to represent the creators of these comics. In NA and SW the Beyonders speak to Doom through some sort of rift in space. They tell Doom they are "Dreamers. Destroyers. All of reality our whim." That description pretty well fits the writers, artists, editors, etc. that are forever shaping the Marvel Universe. In SW 4 Dr. Strange describes the Beyonders as "some alien, ethereal other thing that perfectly constructed not just the material nature of everything, but the rules that governed it as well." Again, this description perfectly fits the crreators of the MU. Also, Hickman is the type of writer who likes to work a lot of symbolism into his stories. Now, if we assume that this is true then many other parts of this story, and the press surrounding it, begin to take on some additional meaning.

    When we first heard about Secret Wars, a lot of people thought Marvel was preparing to do a big reboot. (We now know this is not the case. While the post Secret Wars MU will see some major changes it is definitely not a complete reboot.) In NA 33 the Molecule Man explains how the Beyonders were "conducting their grandest of grand experiments. The simultaneous death of everything in the multiverse." From the perspective of these characters, a complete reboot would serve as such an apocalyptic event. If you want to take this meta reading of the text even further just look at what Owen Reece says next. He asks Doom if he remembers his first encounter with the "child beyonder" which "destroyed a universe in order to construct a play world out of the ashes." This makes sense if you consider that the first secret wars was all about throwing these characters together in order to sell toys. Owen goes on to say that these Beyonders "are its betters, with far more ambitious goals." These ambitious goals would be the reboot.

    This is where it gets fun. Of all the characters in the marvel universe it is Doom who will stand against these beyonders/creators who would destroy their universe. Doom defiantly tells the beyonders, "You dared to test us. You dared to toy with us. I dare to throw back in your face." What we have here is a fictional character refusing to be abused and played with by his creators. And who in the MU besides Doom would really have the ego to do something like that? Also, Doom tells us that the Beyonders' only weakness is that they are linear meaning they are unable to travel through time. This is a weird weakness for the supposedly all powerful Beyonders to have. Well, from the perspective of a character existing in this universe, the creators would be all powerful, and, obviously, the creators at Marvel are unable to travel through time.

    If you choose to interpret Secret Wars in this way then the series ironically becomes the opposite of what so many people thought Marvel was doing. Not only is Secret Wars not a reboot, it is actually a refutation of that idea. The creators may be trying to reboot the universe but the characters refuse to go along. Consider what Cyclops says in SW 1: "You can't kill an idea. It always comes back. Resurrected. Or reborn...into a different form." That pretty much sums up what is happening to the MU right now.

    I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks. It could be I am reading too much into what Hickman is doing. However, when you add it all up I think this interpretation is definitely a possibility. Thoughts?
    Best first post ever

  3. #303
    Incredible Member JLS Comics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emac1790 View Post
    The incursions were taking pieces of Earths. Remember, Doom and MM went back in time.
    and the bubbles that appeared at the incursion impact points supposedly transported those pieces to Battleworld

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh77 View Post
    I don't know if you'd class this as a theory or an interpretation of Secret Wars, but here it goes. I think the Beyonders are supposed to represent the creators of these comics. In NA and SW the Beyonders speak to Doom through some sort of rift in space. They tell Doom they are "Dreamers. Destroyers. All of reality our whim." That description pretty well fits the writers, artists, editors, etc. that are forever shaping the Marvel Universe. In SW 4 Dr. Strange describes the Beyonders as "some alien, ethereal other thing that perfectly constructed not just the material nature of everything, but the rules that governed it as well." Again, this description perfectly fits the crreators of the MU. Also, Hickman is the type of writer who likes to work a lot of symbolism into his stories. Now, if we assume that this is true then many other parts of this story, and the press surrounding it, begin to take on some additional meaning.

    When we first heard about Secret Wars, a lot of people thought Marvel was preparing to do a big reboot. (We now know this is not the case. While the post Secret Wars MU will see some major changes it is definitely not a complete reboot.) In NA 33 the Molecule Man explains how the Beyonders were "conducting their grandest of grand experiments. The simultaneous death of everything in the multiverse." From the perspective of these characters, a complete reboot would serve as such an apocalyptic event. If you want to take this meta reading of the text even further just look at what Owen Reece says next. He asks Doom if he remembers his first encounter with the "child beyonder" which "destroyed a universe in order to construct a play world out of the ashes." This makes sense if you consider that the first secret wars was all about throwing these characters together in order to sell toys. Owen goes on to say that these Beyonders "are its betters, with far more ambitious goals." These ambitious goals would be the reboot.

    This is where it gets fun. Of all the characters in the marvel universe it is Doom who will stand against these beyonders/creators who would destroy their universe. Doom defiantly tells the beyonders, "You dared to test us. You dared to toy with us. I dare to throw back in your face." What we have here is a fictional character refusing to be abused and played with by his creators. And who in the MU besides Doom would really have the ego to do something like that? Also, Doom tells us that the Beyonders' only weakness is that they are linear meaning they are unable to travel through time. This is a weird weakness for the supposedly all powerful Beyonders to have. Well, from the perspective of a character existing in this universe, the creators would be all powerful, and, obviously, the creators at Marvel are unable to travel through time.

    If you choose to interpret Secret Wars in this way then the series ironically becomes the opposite of what so many people thought Marvel was doing. Not only is Secret Wars not a reboot, it is actually a refutation of that idea. The creators may be trying to reboot the universe but the characters refuse to go along. Consider what Cyclops says in SW 1: "You can't kill an idea. It always comes back. Resurrected. Or reborn...into a different form." That pretty much sums up what is happening to the MU right now.

    I'd be interested to hear what everyone else thinks. It could be I am reading too much into what Hickman is doing. However, when you add it all up I think this interpretation is definitely a possibility. Thoughts?
    not bad really. it also explains a lot of post secret wars. while there are changes(nothing all that grand in my honest perspective) it does feel like a soft reboot par ce.

  5. #305
    Mighty Member Mr`Orange's Avatar
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    So it looks like something significant was revealed in Siege issue two.

    spoilers:
    So the Thing is the wall the keeps back the Ultrons, Annihilation wave and Zombies from the Deadlands. Was this revealed in any of the other books prior to this issue? As it was done so nonchalantly I thought they would have made a bigger thing of it.
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by Mr`Orange; 08-06-2015 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #306
    Amazing Member bubbalee33's Avatar
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    So far I like the chaos of it and how it all ties to the main story.
    The only think I wish for was maybe at the back of the book tell where these characters came from (worldwise or books they may have appeared in, if they already have)

  7. #307
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr`Orange View Post
    So it looks like something significant was revealed in Siege issue two.

    spoilers:
    So the Thing is the wall the keeps back the Ultrons, Annihilation wave and Zombies from the Deadlands. Was this revealed in any of the other books prior to this issue? As it was done so nonchalantly I thought they would have made a bigger thing of it.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    Which Thing? There are a few around now.
    end of spoilers

  8. #308
    Mighty Member Taral-DLOS's Avatar
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    I'm somewhat disappointed that Brevoort said that they won't be making a new Battleworld map, even though several other domains have either been shown or referred to (e.g. Mondo City, Yinsen City, Breakland, X-Topia, etc.)

    I'm a geography nerd and I love when books show maps that we can follow.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr`Orange View Post
    So it looks like something significant was revealed in Siege issue two.

    spoilers:
    So the Thing is the wall the keeps back the Ultrons, Annihilation wave and Zombies from the Deadlands. Was this revealed in any of the other books prior to this issue? As it was done so nonchalantly I thought they would have made a bigger thing of it.
    end of spoilers
    I think Tom Brevoort or Jonathan Hickman said Secret Wars 5 will deal with the creation of Battleworld. So maybe it will be mentioned here

  10. #310
    Mighty Member Taral-DLOS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr`Orange View Post
    So it looks like something significant was revealed in Siege issue two.

    spoilers:
    So the Thing is the wall the keeps back the Ultrons, Annihilation wave and Zombies from the Deadlands. Was this revealed in any of the other books prior to this issue? As it was done so nonchalantly I thought they would have made a bigger thing of it.
    end of spoilers
    It was in Siege 1 as well.

  11. #311
    Mighty Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinfuma View Post
    I think Tom Brevoort or Jonathan Hickman said Secret Wars 5 will deal with the creation of Battleworld. So maybe it will be mentioned here
    My speculation is that when the contents of Doom's box exploded in the Beyonders face Doom, Strange, the Molecule Man (possibly many of them if they were the contents of the box), and the Beyonders were dispersed into the chaos of white space. It was Doom's sheer strength of will that kept some aspect of him together to grab onto anything nearby to save his existence. Thus at the end of Hickman's New Avengers it was shown that the unworthy Thor Mjolnir and the World Tree formed by Abyss and Ex Nihilo combining with a Beyonder were two of the items left near the rip in space where the Beyonders emerged. And when Reed's raft broke apart, it was vaguely hinted that Ben Grimm might have been ejected. If anything could have survived in white space, the Thing's body would be a candidate. Thus Doom might have used that too.

  12. #312
    Mighty Member Mr`Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazijoe View Post
    spoilers:
    Which Thing? There are a few around now.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    There are? I've not been reading al lthe books so I must have missed them. Where else has he turned up?
    end of spoilers

  13. #313
    Mighty Member Mr`Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinfuma View Post
    I think Tom Brevoort or Jonathan Hickman said Secret Wars 5 will deal with the creation of Battleworld. So maybe it will be mentioned here
    Ah cool, I am looking forward to the next issue of this book, what a rollercoaster.

  14. #314
    Mighty Member Mr`Orange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taral-DLOS View Post
    It was in Siege 1 as well.
    I must have missed that, I'll go back and take a look.

  15. #315
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbalee33 View Post
    So far I like the chaos of it and how it all ties to the main story.
    The only think I wish for was maybe at the back of the book tell where these characters came from (worldwise or books they may have appeared in, if they already have)
    That would have been helpful, because I completely misunderstood characters that others knew everything about.

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