Wood's X-men: Baby With the Bath Water

[Kisinith]

Ah! Completely forgot that one.

WatXM...features the X-Kids (kind of/sort of/but not really) not doing much just sitting at school waiting for the adventure to come to them.
X-Men...X-Women going on adventures.
Amazing X-Men...Assorted X-Men going on adventures.

Yup, Kisinith...no distinctive raison d'etre between the three.

What I mean by purpose is what’s the goal for those books, having an all female team is a feature not a goal. Amazing had one, resurrecting Nightcrawler, but now what? WatXM is concerned with the school and young mutants, but once again that is a feature not a goal, not a purpose.

Its not that tough and its not a knock on the characters but an honest critique of the various creative teams. The JGS side has the appearance of meandering all over the place. They need to start with some kind of focus, an overarching narrative. The JG books have a tendency to wander from plot to plot with no rhyme or reason. WatXM flat out replaced plot with wacky hi-jinks. Adjectiveless now might have one with the sisterhood but one of the big problems is that it lasted for so long without a mandate (the team not its leader)

Now it could just be me but I've never liked the school (in any incarnation of the X-Men) being the main plot, it just never seems to be all that interesting. But as a side plot or specific story plot it works fine. The JGS side however has embraced “school” as the be all and end all of their existence. The very fact that Storm questions about having a mandate is proof positive that this is needed.

Another example, the classic X-Men were the super hero, mutant response team. If their was a crisis involving Mutants, either being targeted or targeting others, they got involved. Oh yeah and they ran a school.

The JGS runs a wacky school for those crazy mutants where you get jet-pack-riding homework lessons and otherwise don’t get involved unless something shows up on their doorstep.

This is the problem, the JGS needs to go back to being a proactive force who also teaches, something in my opinion they've lost.

[BroHomo]

There is no particular reason why this team comprises of all women. Especially as they are based in the school. It would be different if they branched off from the school and had their own base etc.

I don't know if it's a gimmick but it feels forced as hell in a way the O5 and X-Factor never did.

Really? I just dont get that. I mean Xavier recruited only white kids for his first team of mutants, when he knew about mutants from all over the country. I feel like it was a gimmick to only include W.A.S.P.y mutants. Then the other mutants he recruited the Vulcan team: only the white dude, and Darwin who's race is never really defined survived.

It's a gimmick that for a book that is about overcoming certain prejudices, most of the people are good looking white straight people. I find that fact hard to get over, It's like X-men are the Macklemore and Mily cyrus of comics.

[Tomppa]

Really? I just dont get that. I mean Xavier recruited only white kids for his first team of mutants, when he knew about mutants from all over the country. I feel like it was a gimmick to only include W.A.S.P.y mutants. Then the other mutants he recruited the Vulcan team: only the white dude, and Darwin who's race is never really defined survived.

It's a gimmick that for a book that is about overcoming certain prejudices, most of the people are good looking white straight people. I find that fact hard to get over, It's like X-men are the Macklemore and Mily cyrus of comics.

The point isn't that Xavier recruited white kids, it's a different situation from what we have now with adjectiveless. Adjectiveless is based at the school where there are male and female X-Men. So if they gather a changing rag tag team from X-Men already at the school every issue then it would be likely that at least in some issues there would be both male an female members on the team. And if they gather a team of all females in every issue then it has to be explained more than just saying that they just happen to get all female team every damn issue.
What you are talking about is gathering a completely new team. Xavier gathered only 5 teens so it's still slightly plausible in story that they all just happened to be white. But if he had gathered hundred teens then all of them being white would have been really improbable unless they depicted Xavier as racist/white supremacist. (Of course out of story the reason for O5 being all white was that it was the early 60's and books were written by white people. Different times different customs, nothing we in the present can really do about it)

I'm still saying that diversity in books is good and we need more of that, this is X-Men after all, (where are all non-white dudes?!) but it has to be written so that it doesn't feel forced. Like if they made the team official? Then them always being female team would be logical since that's the team they gathered in the first place but if they are going to gather different team every issue out of all JGS members then it always being a chick team is improbable and get more improbable every consecutive issue.

Oh BTW, Darwin is a black latino so thanks to retroactive continuity he was the first non-white recruit on the X-Men and also both the first latino and first black X-Man (take that Storm! lol)

[Tomppa]

Pretty much all this. The word "gimmick" gets put out a lot and the word is starting to lose meaning.

Current "gimmicks"":
1. 05 back in present
2. Xavier having a "shocking" will
3. Cyclops leading a "revolution"
4. Broken powers
Really, the list could go on for a while.

This title has had its issues but I think there's blame to go around everywhere. I just think it ran out of gas when it came to BOTA and never recovered.

You can blame editors/writers at Marvel for that. It' the unfortunate truth that most x-book plots currently rely on gimmicks and tricks more than actual good stories

I was not complaining about Rachel getting focus...I actually like Rachel and would have loved to see her character given some much needed development, other than "petty bitchin' for drama-sake". I was commenting on the writer using the End of Greys storyline and another BAF Space jaunt as reference to his story direction...As David intimated, it's high time the character got past her effed-up family history and start forging her own path. I would have been more interested if he had referenced her Askani heritage (minus the time travel crap, of course) as I thought that aspect of her life is greatly unexplored and undeveloped. And...

I was not blaming BCW alone for the travesty of events pertaining to X-Men. In fact, of all parties I've always maintained he carries the least amount of blame (and mainly from the perspective that his story-telling was not up to par), the majority of which fell to the editors and their obvious disinterest in seeing this title become a success by switching out the characters and artists so early on, among other transgressions.

I don't really feel that MG using EoG as a basis is a big problem but I do agree that Askani elements of her character are mostly unexplored and they could do things with that.
And glad we agree that editors are at least as much to blame for adjectiveless' failure as BCW.

Ah! Completely forgot that one.

WatXM...features the X-Kids (kind of/sort of/but not really) not doing much just sitting at school waiting for the adventure to come to them.
X-Men...X-Women going on adventures.
Amazing X-Men...Assorted X-Men going on adventures.

Yup, Kisinith...no distinctive raison d'etre between the three.

Yeah, this is annoying. Bendis' has the revolution on UXM and
ANXM has O5 exploring the present

but JGS books don't have much of anything.

WatXM features kids = hijinks?
AXM featured Nightcrawler's return and now... X-Men on misc. adventures?
XM features girl power! And... misc. adventures? WITH GIRL POWER!

Out of those only WatXM MIGHT have some ongoing plot involving QQ and PF and Askani or some shit but I'm not sure if that's even true and it doesn't matter cause characters don't interest most people at all.

[Daymare]

This is the problem, the JGS needs to go back to being a proactive force who also teaches, something in my opinion they've lost.

The problem here is the JGS was NEVER a proactive school to begin with from its inception. Wolverine created a school and named it after another man's wife who Logan was obsessed with. That Xavier Institute was a teaching and proactive school, the JGS has been silly from day one. All of these "teachers" and the next generation of mutant children being attacked AT the school over and over yet the school arguably has the most advanced technology and higher # adults than ever before. If Xavier meant so much to Wolverine you would think he would rename it back to him, someone who they can all relate to for a vision and mission statement, not a woman that he lost many children to in a Kleenex and who most will know of as Cyclops' wife.
That said, an all-female team based out of a school named after the first female X-man does make sense...they could be the Grey team.

[BroHomo]

The point isn't that Xavier recruited white kids, it's a different situation from what we have now with adjectiveless. Adjectiveless is based at the school where there are male and female X-Men. So if they gather a changing rag tag team from X-Men already at the school every issue then it would be likely that at least in some issues there would be both male an female members on the team. And if they gather a team of all females in every issue then it has to be explained more than just saying that they just happen to get all female team every damn issue.
What you are talking about is gathering a completely new team. Xavier gathered only 5 teens so it's still slightly plausible in story that they all just happened to be white. But if he had gathered hundred teens then all of them being white would have been really improbable unless they depicted Xavier as racist/white supremacist. (Of course out of story the reason for O5 being all white was that it was the early 60's and books were written by white people. Different times different customs, nothing we in the present can really do about it)

I'm still saying that diversity in books is good and we need more of that, this is X-Men after all, (where are all non-white dudes?!) but it has to be written so that it doesn't feel forced. Like if they made the team official? Then them always being female team would be logical since that's the team they gathered in the first place but if they are going to gather different team every issue out of all JGS members then it always being a chick team is improbable and get more improbable every consecutive issue.

Oh BTW, Darwin is a black latino so thanks to retroactive continuity he was the first non-white recruit on the X-Men and also both the first latino and first black X-Man (take that Storm! lol)

I just took it that that's just the way the book is, You gotta have a suspension of belief I mean every damn issue of WATXM centers around the same 5 people and 4 of them are Wolverine. Do the other Xmen not have anything going on in their personal life? I have a better time believing that the X-women just move in the same heroic circle in this book. The other members must be busy.

Speaking of the recruitment and gimmicks here's a list of various x-teams off the top of my head:
05......All white all straight
sage...white straight
ANAD:
banshee Male.dead, white straight
Sunfire, Male. Japanese.straight not in the books
Warpath Native American. Straight. Dead.
Wolvy Male. White. Straight.
Storm Black. Woman. Straight
NightCrawler White. Male. Straight
Piotr White. Male. Straight.
Excalibur. Pretty much All white
New Mutants
Dani Cheyenne. Female. Depowered. Straight Not in books
Rahne. White. Female. Straight. MIA
Cannonball. White Male. Straight.Avenger
Warlock. Alien
Doug. White. Male. Straight
Karma. Vietnamese. Female. Lesbian. MIA. got her leg ripped off
Sunspot. Brazilian. Male. Straight. Formerly Half black latino, but now??
Magma. White. Female. Straight.
Magik. White. Female Straight.
Boomer. White Female. Straight.
Rictor. Mexican. Male Straight.
Skids. Female. White. Straight
Generation X:
Chamber Male. White. Straight.
Penance. Female. MIA. ???
Skin. Male. Straight. Mexican. Dead
Synch. Black. Male. Straight. Dead
Mondo. Pacific Islander. Male. Straight. Dead, i think.
Jubilee. chinese. female. Straight Undead.
M. most of the time ethnic. Female. Straight.
Husk. White. Female. Straight MIA. Crazy
Blink! Female. Straight. MIA. not sure her ethnic background.
New X-Men:
cessily White. Female Straight
Rockslide. White. Male. Straight
Anole. White. Male. Gay.
Surge. Female. japanese. Straight.
Prodigy. Black. Male. Bi-sexual. Depowered MIA.
Wallflower. White. Female. Dead.
Icarus. White. Male. Straight. Dead
Hellion. Mexican? Male. Straight.
Tag. Black. Male. Straight. Dead.
Bling! Black (tho you can't tell) Female. Gay

Kinda tired now, lol but it seems that the fighting to be accepted is mostly for white mutants who are attractive. That's no less gimmicky than the all female members in this book

[Omegastorm]

His books have the appearance of going somewhere and has the bonus of being billed as the books that drive the X-Men's narrative.

Compare that to JGS side and you find that lack of focus overwhelming.

That does not a purpose make. X-men's purpose was to show that an all female team could be great. At this point it hasn't fulfilled that purpose. Wolverine and the X-men started out as light take on what it means to be a mutant and Logan trying to live up to Xavier's legacy and failing at it. Amazing X-men was all about bringing back Kurt. Now it needs a better purpose and reason. I think it's a little weird to say that the gold side had no purpose when purpose has been the entire point.

Compare that to the blue side. All New was all about the 05 being brought back to show Scott that he was wrong. That purpose failed. Now what is it? It's a book dedicated to teaching mutants how to use their powers with no larger goals or purpose reported. Uncanny is about a revolution that only exists in one character's mind. It has no purpose apart from grandstanding and pretending to have purpose.


o

[BroHomo]

What's up with all the deal with every damn team needing a specific purpose. what exactly was the purpose of teams like New Mutants, the original X-Factor, Gen X or the like. can't everyone just enjoy the stories without the baggage of it needing a specific goal all the time. just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Daymare]

What's up with all the deal with every damn team needing a specific purpose. what exactly was the purpose of teams like New Mutants, the original X-Factor, Gen X or the like. can't everyone just enjoy the stories without the baggage of it needing a specific goal all the time. just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Personally I think it had been a issue because the characters themselves made it an issue by talking about it. In a very meta way, when Monet arrived she asked questions the readers were asking and Wood intended to answer.
New Mutants: their original goal was to become X-men, that was their purpose.
X-factor was working as government hunters of mutants as a cover with the agenda to actually help save and protect them.
Generation X was created because the X-men realized they had not been protecting the next generation of mutants. They renewed their focus on a school to train them to be the next X-men also...
All teams in the past had a purpose. It is in the 2000's that X-men have become Burger King where you can have it your way, but it is by just mostly empty calories with minimal nutritional value and you are full but not necessarily satisfied.

[BroHomo]

Personally I think it had been a issue because the characters themselves made it an issue by talking about it. In a very meta way, when Monet arrived she asked questions the readers were asking and Wood intended to answer.
New Mutants: their original goal was to become X-men, that was their purpose.
X-factor was working as government hunters of mutants as a cover with the agenda to actually help save and protect them.
Generation X was created because the X-men realized they had not been protecting the next generation of mutants. They renewed their focus on a school to train them to be the next X-men also...
All teams in the past had a purpose. It is in the 2000's that X-men have become Burger King where you can have it your way, but it is by just mostly empty calories with minimal nutritional value and you are full but not necessarily satisfied.

New Mutants were gathered to be eaten by the Brood. The X-men were feared dead. They showed up alive and then they didn't really have a reason to be the next x-men.

X-Factor killed Larry Bodine....or indirectly they did. They couldn't even keep track of the limbo babies, or help the Morlocks.

Gen X I think only Jubilee, Husk and Synch were really trying to be X-men. Skin just wanted to be normal. M stayed only cause gateway 'asked" her to stay. I think Chamber wanted to be whole.

I mean I think X-men is a good book. These defining goals for a team seem unnecessary

[Geralt of Rivia]

But anyway, I think it's unfair to blame Wood alone if this title fails. Writers don't have a say about wht events they participate in, who they have in their cast or who the artist is, not unless you're an 'architect'. Bendis took Kitty away and Wood had to work with that. Remender/Brevoort took Rogue away and Wood had to deal with that without being able to talk about it. And artists were on board for 3 issues max. Hard to see Wood as the only or even the biggest failure on this book.

Well yeah, those things happened in terms of the cast and its a safe bet that it was a sour deal for Wood; no doubt he had to adapt and change his plans to accomodate.

But still, IMO the whole Muertas arc was a complete mess and I think he could have done better in spite of not having access to a couple characters, his work on the book before it got renumbered proved he had a knack for the franchise. sadly it didnt work out that way for long.

I wish I had dropped out completely when BOTA came along instead of skipping the crossover and coming back like I did.

[Mahes]

That does not a purpose make. X-men's purpose was to show that an all female team could be great. At this point it hasn't fulfilled that purpose. Wolverine and the X-men started out as light take on what it means to be a mutant and Logan trying to live up to Xavier's legacy and failing at it. Amazing X-men was all about bringing back Kurt. Now it needs a better purpose and reason. I think it's a little weird to say that the gold side had no purpose when purpose has been the entire point.

Compare that to the blue side. All New was all about the 05 being brought back to show Scott that he was wrong. That purpose failed. Now what is it? It's a book dedicated to teaching mutants how to use their powers with no larger goals or purpose reported. Uncanny is about a revolution that only exists in one character's mind. It has no purpose apart from grandstanding and pretending to have purpose.


o

Bendis's books still have that narrative going forward and building toward something despite what criticisms you have. It's still easier to distinguish from the others as well.

What does JGS side have going for it? There's a lack of focus, no direction, and no distinction between the books. Sure X-Men has an all female cast and that helps give it a distinction but the focus/direction are certainly not there.

Schism has been such a bad thing for the books and is propping up dead weight.

[Swashbuckler]

Out of those only WatXM MIGHT have some ongoing plot involving QQ and PF and Askani or some shit but I'm not sure if that's even true and it doesn't matter cause characters don't interest most people at all.

This is completely incorrect.

[AC/DC]

His books have the appearance of going somewhere and has the bonus of being billed as the books that drive the X-Men's narrative.

Compare that to JGS side and you find that lack of focus overwhelming.

Let me say something heretic: it would be really great to have a unique X-Men team, with Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Colossus, Rogue, Kitty, Nightcrawler, and Beast on it, say, fighting evil mutants like Magneto and Apocalypse.

Should this not be possible, at least it would help having the two Bendis book melting into a unique book shipping quarterly (instead of slowly "developing" two parallel and involuted storylines), and shrinking the whole JGS titles to one book.

The lack of focus is indeed overwhelming...

[vitamin]

whatever happened to that island in the burmuda triangle illyana was taken to limbo and came back as a teenager, old Claremont run era.

That question was also on my lips lately.
That would be a cool place to set up a shop and it gives good cover from all the radars and detecting devices.