Wood's X-men: Baby With the Bath Water

[Knight Auditor]

Are we talking about the newest issue in here? I don't see a new thread.

Anyways, as I'm kind of over the plot of this book and we're all just in a bit of a holding pattern as we wait for Guggenheim to take over, I'm going to hover right over the plot of this issue entirely and say that I'm really glad Clay Mann's doing the art because he he does wonderful work. A very good choice for the tone and cast of this book.

There are too many psychics on this team. I told Wood that before the series began and he hand-waved the problem of redundancy, but he never addressed it and it's still kind of annoying 14 issues in. :/

[Park Slope Pixie]

One of the characters was sexually attracted to a man that was actually an admittedly murderous bacterium, and yet the author wasn't intentionally creating a weird/quirky comic. That says failure.

This is actually one of the more believable bits of plotting. It should have been explored further, what kind of mommy issues was Rachel exactly working out by dryrubbing some murdery bacterium.

Jubilee as a viable character, that's what beggars belief from me.

[Omegastorm]

You're right, its not about the gold side its about Adjectiveless. The problem is that that title suffers from the same general problem as the rest of the JGS books and as such deserves criticism for that lack. Plot and gimmicks do go hand in hand in selling titles, again I agree with you. Gimmicks grab attention and plot keeps it, the problem is that the JGS books like Adjectiveless have gimmick after gimmick but their plots fall flat. Adjectiveless is long drawn out and boring.

Still not about the other books. The first three issues were anything but boring. I am going to keep repeating this until it sinks in. Gimmicks and plotting go hand in hand. They should be mixed throughout the story without much fuss. I mean look at the blue side. They have the biggest gimick in the game time travel, no real plot except for the 05 learning how to use their powers and rehashing the same shit other authors did a better job of portraying.

o

[Daymare]

Still not about the other books. The first three issues were anything but boring. I am going to keep repeating this until it sinks in. Gimmicks and plotting go hand in hand. They should be mixed throughout the story without much fuss. I mean look at the blue side. They have the biggest gimick in the game time travel, no real plot except for the 05 learning how to use their powers and rehashing the same shit other authors did a better job of portraying.

o

100% agree that all comics are gimmick based and when a writer is solid the gimimck is just blended in. I have realized, especially lately, this is a skill not all writers are able to successfully handle in comics
The first 3 X-men issues were great to look at...but they were boring. If you were to pull Copiel out of the issue and throw a different artist I think the dullness of the issues would have shown through much clearer. Coipel could show an X-woman dialing a phone and make it look tense and beautiful (and he may have done so in the issues).
Do you read All New X-men and Uncanny? I find certain members and fans have a hive inducing reaction to titles but do not even read them because their favorite characters are not a focus in them?
Could you explain what is so wonderful about the Gold Team titles?
If we want writers/editors to make changes in the books maybe we all as a fan base need to be more specific than "This character sucks, this character is a god/goddess".

For me the ANXM and Uncanny have the best long-form story. They have purspose and a clear, core idea as their center. The O5 were brought forward in time to try and change the course of the past. They are now stuck here for a time and are still following the inital concept of changing in the present so they can change their past when they finally return.
The concenpt of Uncanny is to SEEK out new mutants and help train them like the original Xavier school did. The teachers are broken and have had questionable pasts but at least 2 of them are trying to make amends for those instances and show that not that mutants are not longer under 100 they can live in peace with the human kind. The main difficulty, everyone is against their leader for a "crime" he committed while possesed by a cosimc entity.

X-men had a great concept of the female members of the team embarking on a mission to save one of their own, and they went as friends. It has taken too long to get around to why they have continued on to team up when in the writing they do not respect one another or truly. There is still hope for this. I love almost all of the chacraters on the team and many of them are only presented here. I do not want this book to fail.

Amazing...just a book to give the gold team a reason to go one missions...yet they have one, it's called X-men. The first arc could have easily been the first arc to the NC series.
Wolverine and the X-men have an ok premise. Showing the main youngsters at the school. The staff choices are bland (IMO, especially Fantomex...why would you let him around children, even teen apocolypse?) and the future storyline is questionable but I can see where this title could pull out to be decent.

I started with them all, dropped 2 due to the characters and the writing and the X-men is on the bubble after Woods exits.
I will stick with ANXM until Immonen leaves as I adore his art but the slow pace of the writing and event after event for shock-sake is tired. I do think the book has a voice and a purpose though.
Uncanny, I enjoy the chacraters, Magik and Cyclops in particular but again, due to the pacing I would leave the title if Bachalo leaves (unless an A-list artisit takes over). This is the one book where events that happen seem to actually matter line-wide. (Dazzler kindapped-Mystique replacing her, Shield taking and anti-mutant stance, Xavier's will, new mutants developing powers and being sought by X-men). An issue like today 21 were the characters are treated equally and even Storm has a good moment are what shows me that this title has a POV. Bendis is not killing it with this book like he did with USM but I can see traces of what made his good show through.

The mini/ongoings currently published are decent. Cyclops is the only title of X in space, it is not THE Cyclops, and I am a fan of the writer and the solid artists (but no, I will not buy 3 copies of the title and claim it is the most amazing series ever before it was released).
Magneto, solid hero/villian redemption.
NC, could be better but sales after #2 will determine longevity.
X-factor, X-force, their purpose is pretty clear and they have non-redundant characters (save Psylocke but the explaination is solid on her duality).

The boards seem as divided lately title-wise as the actual X-teams do so it would be great to see thoughts from others in a respectful and not flame-tastic type of way.

[Daymare]

Are we talking about the newest issue in here? I don't see a new thread.

Anyways, as I'm kind of over the plot of this book and we're all just in a bit of a holding pattern as we wait for Guggenheim to take over, I'm going to hover right over the plot of this issue entirely and say that I'm really glad Clay Mann's doing the art because he he does wonderful work. A very good choice for the tone and cast of this book.

There are too many psychics on this team. I told Wood that before the series began and he hand-waved the problem of redundancy, but he never addressed it and it's still kind of annoying 14 issues in. :/

Yeah, it was sad to see Mann already off the title with the next issue. Then we have MATTEO BUFFAGNI for the issues leading up to Guggenheim and Dexter Soy on at least the first issue.
The berth of psioncs on the team hisestly did not bother me as they use them in such a unique way.

Rachel is the mental terror, digging in with her tp and using her tk as a bateering ram. She is the warden of the school.
Psylocke is much more subtle and the killer, she is all about the stealth.
Monet...well, her tp level is always left up to the writer, is is supposed to be just a little more than slight mind-reading and heavy shields due to the Penance fact but I suppose this could go either way. It would be an easy choice to remove that aspect of her power-set, she has enough already.
The interrogation scene was fun with sublime, having Rachel scoure through his mind while Psylocke was there as the lie-detector. I loved the "bad cop/insane killer-beyatch cop" roles they had during that scene.

[javi150190]

Can anybody tell me what happened in today's issue, Im having problems on comixology right now

[Kisinith]

Still not about the other books. The first three issues were anything but boring. I am going to keep repeating this until it sinks in. Gimmicks and plotting go hand in hand. They should be mixed throughout the story without much fuss. I mean look at the blue side. They have the biggest gimick in the game time travel, no real plot except for the 05 learning how to use their powers and rehashing the same shit other authors did a better job of portraying.

o

Why are you still complaining about Blue side books? The discussion is about how the JGS in general, and Adjectiveless in particular, can be improved. It is not about the Bendis books. Lets not derail this thread into yet another blue vs gold debate

1st, I'm glad you are enjoying the Gold side books, more power to you. I am not, I've tried each and dropped all of them save Amazing.

I agree with you that gimmicks and plot go hand in hand the problem is that all I see from the JGS side are gimmicks and nothing cohesive tying things together. They lurch about from crisis to crisis like a drunken sailor with almost nothing cohesive tying them together. Now about X-Men, you know the one that is actually being discussed, I really like the idea but the execution has been flawed. Characters fall into the soul sucking morass that is the JGS and act like whiny insecure fools. I don't want this, I'd like for this to be a standout title but its writer and execution need to improve.

Do you want Storm to be written as an inhibited, indecisive school mom?

I am kinda glad things are messed up, as long as the quality isn't there it saves me money each week.

[DDD]

Sublime made the whole cast look like idiots, not just Rachel. They're militants for mutant rights letting someone who has been profiteering from and harvesting human organs out of MUTANT CHILDREN for decades. But they're chicks, and he's SOOOO hands♥me and RICH!!!

[Omegastorm]

100% agree that all comics are gimmick based and when a writer is solid the gimimck is just blended in. I have realized, especially lately, this is a skill not all writers are able to successfully handle in comics
The first 3 X-men issues were great to look at...but they were boring. If you were to pull Copiel out of the issue and throw a different artist I think the dullness of the issues would have shown through much clearer. Coipel could show an X-woman dialing a phone and make it look tense and beautiful (and he may have done so in the issues).
Do you read All New X-men and Uncanny? I find certain members and fans have a hive inducing reaction to titles but do not even read them because their favorite characters are not a focus in them?

I wasn't bored by the first three titles. It felt like I was actually reading an x-men comic. That's something I haven't been able to say in years. They connected, they were close and they actually cared about each other and showed a family familiarity. When was the last time that was portrayed in an X-book. I never find that boring.

Could you explain what is so wonderful about the Gold Team titles?
If we want writers/editors to make changes in the books maybe we all as a fan base need to be more specific than "This character sucks, this character is a god/goddess".

There isn't anything all that wonderful about the gold side. I still don't understand why you care about others calling Storm a goddess or whatever. Why does it bother you that much?

For me the ANXM and Uncanny have the best long-form story. They have purspose and a clear, core idea as their center. The O5 were brought forward in time to try and change the course of the past. They are now stuck here for a time and are still following the inital concept of changing in the present so they can change their past when they finally return.
The concenpt of Uncanny is to SEEK out new mutants and help train them like the original Xavier school did. The teachers are broken and have had questionable pasts but at least 2 of them are trying to make amends for those instances and show that not that mutants are not longer under 100 they can live in peace with the human kind. The main difficulty, everyone is against their leader for a "crime" he committed while possesed by a cosimc entity.

Those are purposes you are making up in your head. Everything that the 05 go through here has to be rewritten or else bad things happen. They will not go and change their past. How many new mutants have Uncanny actually found? How many are they actually training? What are they training them for? Seriously the point of Uncanny was to show some type of revolution. That's it's purpose. It has failed miserably at demonstrating what the revolution is, it's goals, it's ideology, it's focus. The revolution is a gimick that doesn't really exist.

X-men had a great concept of the female members of the team embarking on a mission to save one of their own, and they went as friends. It has taken too long to get around to why they have continued on to team up when in the writing they do not respect one another or truly. There is still hope for this. I love almost all of the chacraters on the team and many of them are only presented here. I do not want this book to fail.

Me either, I think this could be a great book.

Amazing...just a book to give the gold team a reason to go one missions...yet they have one, it's called X-men. The first arc could have easily been the first arc to the NC series.
Wolverine and the X-men have an ok premise. Showing the main youngsters at the school. The staff choices are bland (IMO, especially Fantomex...why would you let him around children, even teen apocolypse?) and the future storyline is questionable but I can see where this title could pull out to be decent.

No argument there. I agree.

I started with them all, dropped 2 due to the characters and the writing and the X-men is on the bubble after Woods exits.
I will stick with ANXM until Immonen leaves as I adore his art but the slow pace of the writing and event after event for shock-sake is tired. I do think the book has a voice and a purpose though.
Uncanny, I enjoy the chacraters, Magik and Cyclops in particular but again, due to the pacing I would leave the title if Bachalo leaves (unless an A-list artisit takes over). This is the one book where events that happen seem to actually matter line-wide. (Dazzler kindapped-Mystique replacing her, Shield taking and anti-mutant stance, Xavier's will, new mutants developing powers and being sought by X-men). An issue like today 21 were the characters are treated equally and even Storm has a good moment are what shows me that this title has a POV. Bendis is not killing it with this book like he did with USM but I can see traces of what made his good show through.

Huh? This is in your head too, and I say this not be mean or offensive. Literally no one apart from Bendis is using his plot to advance theirs. X-men, Amazing, WTX and all the other titles have nothing to do with anything Bendis wrote. The fact that Shield attacked the school today will not be referenced in any other books. You won't see repairs in X-men...

[The mini/ongoings currently published are decent. Cyclops is the only title of X in space, it is not THE Cyclops, and I am a fan of the writer and the solid artists (but no, I will not buy 3 copies of the title and claim it is the most amazing series ever before it was released).
Magneto, solid hero/villian redemption.
NC, could be better but sales after #2 will determine longevity.
X-factor, X-force, their purpose is pretty clear and they have non-redundant characters (save Psylocke but the explaination is solid on her duality).

The boards seem as divided lately title-wise as the actual X-teams do so it would be great to see thoughts from others in a respectful and not flame-tastic type of way.

I am a huge Kurt fan. I love that character. I like that CC knows his voice. I don't like the fake incest vibe even though I enjoy Margali and Amanda.

I love Magneto. I love that he's not really seeking redemption so much as solace for all the horror he's been through. I love that he's not a victim. I love that he's kicking ass and taking names. It's honestly the best title in the X-men right now.

I like PD but I haven't gotten into the Xfactor yet. I don't really care that much about X-force.

o

[Daymare]

I wasn't bored by the first three titles. It felt like I was actually reading an x-men comic. That's something I haven't been able to say in years. They connected, they were close and they actually cared about each other and showed a family familiarity. When was the last time that was portrayed in an X-book. I never find that boring.

There isn't anything all that wonderful about the gold side. I still don't understand why you care about others calling Storm a goddess or whatever. Why does it bother you that much?

Those are purposes you are making up in your head. Everything that the 05 go through here has to be rewritten or else bad things happen. They will not go and change their past. How many new mutants have Uncanny actually found? How many are they actually training? What are they training them for? Seriously the point of Uncanny was to show some type of revolution. That's it's purpose. It has failed miserably at demonstrating what the revolution is, it's goals, it's ideology, it's focus. The revolution is a gimick that doesn't really exist.

Me either, I think this could be a great book.

No argument there. I agree.

Huh? This is in your head too, and I say this not be mean or offensive. Literally no one apart from Bendis is using his plot to advance theirs. X-men, Amazing, WTX and all the other titles have nothing to do with anything Bendis wrote. The fact that Shield attacked the school today will not be referenced in any other books. You won't see repairs in X-men...
I am a huge Kurt fan. I love that character. I like that CC knows his voice. I don't like the fake incest vibe even though I enjoy Margali and Amanda.

I love Magneto. I love that he's not really seeking redemption so much as solace for all the horror he's been through. I love that he's not a victim. I love that he's kicking ass and taking names. It's honestly the best title in the X-men right now.

I like PD but I haven't gotten into the Xfactor yet. I don't really care that much about X-force.

o

I appreciate the respectful responses and your opinions. We will obviously have differences of opinions on purpose of certain titles (which all fans will).
I really do have a reaction to Storm being called goddess I dislike the term and she is not one. Since the 80's I have cringed when refers to herself as one too. She can call herself a strong black woman, a mutant, a wind whipper...but goddess...she is no deity. Her marriage was annulled too so effectively she was never a queen (unless she means something else by it).
Thank you again for the response.

[GallowGlass]

To have a Irishman, German, English, Russian.....etc, and have them toted on a team that fights prejudiced is pretty much a slap in the face. In America...where I hail, and where the X-men are based there is no box for irish...russian....english...etc. It is pretty much separated by race/skin color. It is a flawed system but its our's. I wholeheartedly disagree your second to last statement, a gay korean woman has vastly different ethnic differences than your example. M started off very dark in her initial appearance. Now, she suffers from the same race changing as Darwin...Sunspot...

Ouch, I guess I missed the part where that was supposed to be progressive. or maybe it was just soo predictable I slept right through it. Jubilee is breaking the mold of only white x-babies. I'm pretty happy with it.

Shogo and Jubilee FTW

Okay. Well we'll have to agree to disagree. I think what X-Men could do with is some more international characters who aren't as ludicrously stereotypical as some have been.

[Infernal-Ginger]

I would have been more interested if he had referenced her Askani heritage (minus the time travel crap, of course) as I thought that aspect of her life is greatly unexplored and undeveloped. And...

.

I would love for her to reference her Askani background...take the codename "Askani" so she doesn't just go by just her name like Jean did.....train in the Askani Ways with Blaquesmith & Nathan....and kick ass.

I am hoping she isn't whining in the upcoming Space story...instead she is like she was in "Kingbreaker" etc where she was a badass and takes revenge on those Shiar bastards.I want to see her use her Xavier training to do all kinds of cool power stunts.....ooh and drop the stupid "pouch belt"...she would look so much better without it

Only problem i have with Claremont writing her is that he ALWAYS has her being captured....I think the ONLY story she was not a captive is when she kicked the crap out of the Fury.....great Claremont story....if Claremont can write her without her being captured, then I am all for it.

Has it been officially confirmed if she still has her back tattoo?

[Omegastorm]

I would love for her to reference her Askani background...take the codename "Askani" so she doesn't just go by just her name like Jean did.....train in the Askani Ways with Blaquesmith & Nathan....and kick ass.

I am hoping she isn't whining in the upcoming Space story...instead she is like she was in "Kingbreaker" etc where she was a badass and takes revenge on those Shiar bastards.I want to see her use her Xavier training to do all kinds of cool power stunts.....ooh and drop the stupid "pouch belt"...she would look so much better without it

Only problem i have with Claremont writing her is that he ALWAYS has her being captured....I think the ONLY story she was not a captive is when she kicked the crap out of the Fury.....great Claremont story....if Claremont can write her without her being captured, then I am all for it.

Has it been officially confirmed if she still has her back tattoo?

I agree. I think her askani background would actually set her apart from every other telepath out there and help her get out from under Jean's shadow.

o

[Daymare]

I would love for her to reference her Askani background...take the codename "Askani" so she doesn't just go by just her name like Jean did.....train in the Askani Ways with Blaquesmith & Nathan....and kick ass.

I am hoping she isn't whining in the upcoming Space story...instead she is like she was in "Kingbreaker" etc where she was a badass and takes revenge on those Shiar bastards.I want to see her use her Xavier training to do all kinds of cool power stunts.....ooh and drop the stupid "pouch belt"...she would look so much better without it

Only problem i have with Claremont writing her is that he ALWAYS has her being captured....I think the ONLY story she was not a captive is when she kicked the crap out of the Fury.....great Claremont story....if Claremont can write her without her being captured, then I am all for it.

Has it been officially confirmed if she still has her back tattoo?

I am not sure if it is just timing but the Cyclops and Phoenix Collection solicitation is happening the same month that Guggenheim begins his run which includes the Phoenix mini- which is all about her. Again, it may be coincidence or it could mean something is brewing for her or Cable.
I beleive though, that when Cable saved her from the timestream they had said that she divided in 2 with one going to the future to become the Mother and the other being captured (which is the one Cable saved), I guess that would mean that this Rachel has no Askani ties nor the training. If that is the case it makes sense why no one GAF about her storied history or character developments.
I am hoping that her being the "anchor" of his run does not lead to her dying or staying in space.
The tattoo should still be on her. Based on when she got it, it was bonded to her on a molecular level and could not be removed...it may be why she is in constant dominatrix gear to cover it.

[Infernal-Ginger]

Claremont mentioned that she remembered Askani training in his Alan Davis run - Nathan can train her too