Hulk vs Mordo

[Pendaran]

I'm saying that keeping Strange out to the point that his only option to force his way in would kill you is impressive. Strange is a rather (ridiculously) powerful character. The Hulk blocked him out of his mind until the adamantium barrage and then forced him back out once he was inside. Yes, he crushed his hands but on the psychic plane, not the physical. That's a mental feat.

So, you are ignoring all the parts in posted scans where he was keeping Strange out because Strange used a spell where the person had to want to let him in? Do you want the page where Strange says "for the enchantment to work, he must open the door?"

[KPhilipsen]

In the immediate aftermath but what about the history of middle Earth? Sauron was the only source of orc conflict? They never acted outside his mental domination? They were all suicidal before Sauron?

[Pendaran]

In the immediate aftermath but what about the history of middle Earth? Sauron was the only source of orc conflict? They never acted outside his mental domination? They were all suicidal before Sauron?

You understand this has absolutely nothing to do with them being noted from the text as being controlled for that fight and having so sharp a reaction to its loss?

You want to say the showing's not valid, go ahead, but you seem to keep trying to say, you and MidTierHero I guess, that it didn't actually happen at all the way it was described as happening. Which is increasingly weird. Text provided.

[KPhilipsen]

I'm reading the book right now. Went and pulled it out. I'll read it word for word back to you if you like. Strange said flat out that he couldn't forcibly make contact with the Hulk without killing him unless the Hulk let him in. The Hulk was keeping Strange out. Could Strange have blasted through his defenses, sure. Again, not without killing him which Strange wasn't willing to do. He wasn't able to resist (non-lethally) being forced out of Hulk's mind or having his hands broken on the mental plane. The Hulk manhandled the Sorcerer Supreme on the psychic plane and you're not impressed?

[Pendaran]

I'm reading the book right now. Went and pulled it out. I'll read it word for word back to you if you like. Strange said flat out that he couldn't forcibly make contact with the Hulk without killing him unless the Hulk let him in. The Hulk was keeping Strange out. Could Strange have blasted through his defenses, sure. Again, not without killing him which Strange wasn't willing to do. He wasn't able to resist (non-lethally) being forced out of Hulk's mind or having his hands broken on the mental plane. The Hulk manhandled the Sorcerer Supreme on the psychic plane and you're not impressed?

Strange said, word for word, "for the enchantment to work, he must open the door". He's talking about how the spell works. You are for some reason completely ignoring this, and I'm really not sure why.

He repeatedly says the spell involves the Hulk would have to want him to come in, and you have decided this means Doctor Strange can't mind control the Hulk, not that Doctor Strange was making a big deal about using a spell that should have someone participate in it voluntarily.

The Hulk was keeping Strange out.

Because Strange was using a spell, that by his own words, requires the other person to want you to come in.

The Hulk manhandled the Sorcerer Supreme on the psychic plane and you're not impressed?

The Hulk crushed the hands of a guy who had approached him peacefully and given him his hands to hold in the first place, and it affected him physically. The Hulk has a minor record of interacting spiritually with the spirit world, ghosts, and whatever, of being attuned to that kind of thing. I'm mostly impressed you're trying to claim this shows anything as far as mental resistance/offense for the Hulk, despite the contents of the actual comic, which at this point are being outright posted up for you.

He sure resisted a Doctor Strange trying to peacefully contact him with a spell that is intended for the other person to let you in.

[KPhilipsen]

It honestly seems like Saurons "mind control" is more like Darth Sidious's Battle Meditation. It makes the troops sharper, more aggressive but doesn't directly control anyone's actions. Could Sauron directly mind control someone? Maybe but it certainly doesn't seem to be the way in the books or movies. He doesn't gather an army of mind controlled humans after all. He takes orcs which are naturally war like and aggressive and makes them into an army. Kind of like Apocalypse making the Hulk into War. They wanted it.

Going to read the links now.

[Pendaran]

It honestly seems like Saurons "mind control" is more like Darth Sidious's Battle Meditation. It makes the troops sharper, more aggressive but doesn't directly control anyone's actions. Could Sauron directly mind control someone? Maybe but it certainly doesn't seem to be the way in the books or movies. He doesn't gather an army of mind controlled humans after all. He takes orcs which are naturally war like and aggressive and makes them into an army. Kind of like Apocalypse making the Hulk into War. They wanted it.

Going to read the links now.

Nothing in what you say has anything to do with what was posted up for that scene, in this thread, that you've been replying to.

Maybe but it certainly doesn't seem to be the way in the books or movies.

Except for the part posted right in this thread.

[Pendaran]

Kind of like Apocalypse making the Hulk into War. They wanted it.

So, walking back on that one as a mental resistance feat for the Hulk?

[KPhilipsen]

Again, I'm reading the comic. It's on the table in front of me. Strange didn't have any other options. He tried to contact the Hulk but the Hulk shut the door in his face. To kick it in would have killed the Hulk. He was able to sneak in during the adamantium barrage but then was promptly removed. The reason that I'm saying that Strange couldn't control the Hulks mind is because that is what happened in the issue. His options were either cooperation or lethal force. Control was not one of them. He was forced out of his mind by a confrontation on the psychic plane. This was not a case of the Hulk interacting with spirits. The Hulk was physically being hit with missiles. Stranges astral form was nowhere near the Hulk's body. That is a mental feat any which way you slice it.

[KPhilipsen]

I'm just taking your argument. If you want to make a claim then it's only fair that it be applied to your arguments too. So for the sake of argument let's say that the Hulk and Orcs want the mental domination. Just trying to be easy. Either mental domination works that way or it doesn't. Your pick. I'll follow your lead.

[KPhilipsen]

Which I would love to read but have been somewhat busy catching up replying to someone who I can only assume is a professional typist or clerk of some sort.

[Pendaran]

The reason that I'm saying that Strange couldn't control the Hulks mind is because that is what happened in the issue.

You are now claiming that trying to get into the Hulk's mind using a spell that is supposed to work around voluntary mental participation is Doctor Strange having tried to control the Hulk's mind. That.. never happened in the comic.

When did Strange ever try to control the Hulk's mind? When did he try to do anything but get in there and talk to him?

He tried to contact the Hulk but the Hulk shut the door in his face.

Because that's how the spell is supposed to work, according to the guy using it. You are saying that despite Strange saying he wanted the Hulk to let him in, he was trying to force his way in and was repulsed. Do you have a comic where Strange later thinks or admits he was lying when he said that?

He was forced out of his mind by a confrontation on the psychic plane. This was not a case of the Hulk interacting with spirits. The Hulk was physically being hit with missiles. Stranges Astral form was nowhere near the Hulk's body. That is a mental feat any which way you slice it.

He was forced out of his mind because somehow his hands being broken astrally also broke them physically. That's actually, if you really want to make a thing of it, both individual's abilities working in ways they don't work, and the spirit world thing was frankly, mostly my being generous, but since you want to make a deal of it..

Dormammu once pulped the projected into his psyche form of Doctor Strange. Agonized him and pulped and warped his form into a pustulent bag of flesh. Strange was also so depowered he was borrowing power from the Dan Ketch Ghost Rider, as all his patrons had abandoned him. For some reason this had no effect on Strange's physical body. Strange in fact managed to keep it together long enough to zorch Dormammu with the eye of agamotto channeled through his astral form. Is the Hulk more powerful than Dormammu? This is totally the cue to post that done as a comedy book scan from Defenders out of context and say yes, by the by. If you want to otherwise say no, unfortunately, that is the ultimate consequence of your current argument regardless.

[Pendaran]

I'm just taking your argument. If you want to make a claim then it's only fair that it be applied to your arguments too. So for the sake of argument let's say that the Hulk and Orcs want the mental domination. Just trying to be easy. Either mental domination works that way or it doesn't. Your pick. I'll follow your lead.

Except that they clearly didn't want it, or you'd think they wouldn't react that way to it being gone despite a lack of having seemingly killed the best friend they ever had in the meantime. Your sake of argument requires again, ignoring provided text, provided right for you. Do you have anything, to make this an actual analogy, that says in the material that they wanted it?

[Pendaran]

Which I would love to read but have been somewhat busy catching up replying to someone who I can only assume is a professional typist or clerk of some sort.

Once again, the stuff from Tolkien was posted 9 pages and many hours ago.

[KPhilipsen]

Went back and read Sharp's post. Okay, if Sauron can mentally dominate anyone not "blessed by Eru" I guess the Hulk would be screwed. He did note that there was controversy over that point and that it wasn't entirely accepted. Again, I'm not familiar with "Eru" or any of that other Silmarillon stuff so it's all news to me. If Sauron can basically mentally enslave an entire world to his whim then that Eru guy really screwed him over. Here is an awesome super power that is now completely useless. Enjoy! Sauron is basically a god level telepath on a planet of people immune to telepathy unless they pick up a "palantir"? Sweet! That's like being Aquaman on land.