Hulk vs Mordo

[Sharpandpointies]

Ah, yes, Sauron is well-known for having been wearing the One Ring, his actual mean of controlling people via rings, during Lord of the Rings. I remember well the chapter where Legolas shot arrows to make a ladder up the watchtower for Aragorn, who proceeded to ascend it and wrest the One Ring from the flaming eyeball to toss it to Frodo down below so he could go throw it into the volcano.

Jaaaacksoooon!!!

[The Watcher]

KPhilipsen, either your are deliberately ignoring and distorting evidence and feats presented on the thread regarding Sauron's mental capabilities and Hulk's mental resistance or you're just spectacularly failing to understand the when presesented on this thread. Either way, it makes your further participation problematic. Discontinue posting on this thread.

[big_adventure]

Ah, yes, Sauron is well-known for having been wearing the One Ring, his actual mean of controlling people via rings, during Lord of the Rings. I remember well the chapter where Legolas shot arrows to make a ladder up the watchtower for Aragorn, who proceeded to ascend it and wrest the One Ring from the flaming eyeball to toss it to Frodo down below so he could go throw it into the volcano.

Sauron and the Ring are explicitly tied closely together. The simple fact that he put so much of himself into the ring (to the point that destroying it killed him) would lend credence to him being able to do some Ring stuff when when separated from it.

Or, you know, not. I'm really not all that attached to the idea in any case. If you want to say that it was all him, nothing to do with her wearing a ring, fine. It's still a crappy feat: failing completely to do... anything... to someone with no specific resistance feats (despite all of her badassery, she lacks that) over a long period of time. The fact that it failed makes it a pretty worthless feat. It's not like Galadriel was in pain or incapacitated or anything. She just said "evil bitch be frontin' fo' a looooong time; I ain't havin' none a that, yo."*



*Note: I might be paraphrasing.

[Siriel]

It is this thing where having put his power into the Ring he lacks that power when not wearing the Ring.

[big_adventure]

It is this thing where having put his power into the Ring he lacks that power when not wearing the Ring.

Sure, but he also feels and senses the Ring, and perhaps the others. He certainly had no problem keeping track of and control over the Nazgul, beings who were explicitly corrupted and controlled with Ring power, even when not wearing the Ring.

[Siriel]

Sure, but he also feels and senses the Ring

He repeatedly gets fooled into thinking people have it when they don't, and didn't notice even when it was right under his nose. It's only when people actually use it that he can locate them.

Basically the whole 'control people who wear rings', is a power that he has as a result of putting power into the One Ring, and without the One Ring he is specifically less than he was before the forging. So it doesn't really make sense to argue that he has a power that he only has thanks to the One Ring, without the One Ring.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I was just going to say that, as a Giant Monster Eye, he should have a pretty good handle on things he owns. Except possibly, things that are in his peripheral vision.

[Pendaran]

Sauron's "control" of his army has a few things: 1. those guys were basically his anyway - they did what they were ordered to do; 2. They clearly want to kill Elves and Men and Dwarves, even without Sauron's influence, so it's not all that hard to make them go to war for him; and 3. Them "falling apart" after Sauron fell might well have a lot to do with the mental touch going away (See original Star Wars EU stories, the only ones I know at all, for what happened when the Jedi's guiding force vanished after one had bonded to his army/fleet/etc.), but also their semi-incarnate god died right behind them in a cataclysm. Pretty demoralizing.

That's just not how it's presented and not how the segment reads. The entire presented idea is sans control in that fight, they crap out. You can argue certainly that they usually want to do certain things, but.. here they pretty clearly did not.

Now if you want to argue "that makes it make no sense", well, hey, sure.

[Powerboy]

Another possibility I could see is if Saruman managed to confront the Hulk and get the Hulk to hold off on smashing long enough for him to talk for even a few seconds. Saruman is more "You agree with me because I'm such a kindly old man" more than "You Will Obey Me." But I suppose that's just the puppet controlling the puppet and not seeing that he's a puppet himself since Sauron had his mental fingers into Saruman's thoughts.

I wonder also how specifically Sauron during the time of LoTR could "lock onto" one specific person if that person does not have the ring or one of the rings? In other words, might the place be smashed before Sauron realizes the danger? After all, Frodo got into Mount Doom.

Mind you, I'm not an LoTR expert, obviously. So I'm just speculating and throwing questions into the ring.

[Siriel]

While Sauron can miss two guys sneaking into the backdoor and occasionally stabbing a couple of orcs, he's not exactly going to miss the green giant smashing through everything.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

While Sauron can miss two guys sneaking into the backdoor and occasionally stabbing a couple of orcs, he's not exactly going to miss the green giant smashing through everything.

Depends on whether or not he has his contact in.

[big_adventure]

Well, by the time LotR rolls around, Saruman, especially Movie Saruman, is a pretty obnoxious, arrogant, overbearing douche. He starts off nice-ish with Gandalf, but that's a ploy. From there, he's all bad juju.

[Sharpandpointies]

Well, by the time LotR rolls around, Saruman, especially Movie Saruman, is a pretty obnoxious, arrogant, overbearing douche. He starts off nice-ish with Gandalf, but that's a ploy. From there, he's all bad juju.

If we're not talking movies. Saurman had a ridiculously powerful magical voice that allowed him to persuade nearly anyone of anything. It wasn't direct mind control, it was just...magic voice that manipulated everyone.

Gandalf was pretty much the only person capable of shrugging it off.

I figure that if it 'convinces' Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and other people who flat out KNOW Saruman is one messed up dude, then it's going to run wild over a simpleminded fellow like the Hulk who isn't familiar with Saruman.

[big_adventure]

If we're not talking movies. Saurman had a ridiculously powerful magical voice that allowed him to persuade nearly anyone of anything. It wasn't direct mind control, it was just...magic voice that manipulated everyone.

Gandalf was pretty much the only person capable of shrugging it off.

I figure that if it 'convinces' Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, and other people who flat out KNOW Saruman is one messed up dude, then it's going to run wild over a simpleminded fellow like the Hulk who isn't familiar with Saruman.

Definitely true in the books. Sadly, one of many, many things ignored in the movies.

I also actually doubt he'd get a chance to use it against an actually angry Hulk. YMMV, of course.

[Sharpandpointies]

Angry Hulk, when confronted by seemingly unthreatening things like children, puppy dogs, and old men, tends to stand there and scream at them a bit before doing anything. Sometimes he even listens to them so he can yell back how miffed he is.

Saruman wouldn't need to just pop up in front of him, after all. So I can totally see it running like this (remember, Magic Voice of Persuasion here):

*Hulk rampaging*

[Saruman] *shouting from a distance when the noise level dies down for a second* Hulk! Hulk, over here!

[Hulk] RAAAARGHWHYYOUKNOWHULK'SNAME!?

[Saruman] You've been shouting it...lots. Please, Hulk. I just want to speak to you!

[Hulk] ARGLEBARGLE! *leaps over and lands in front of Saruman* RAAAARGHYOUWANTOHURTHULK?!

[Saruman] *obviously wetting his pants and being at his most placating, which is saying a lot* No, Hulk, please...I'm just an old man who wants to talk.

[Hulk] RAAAA...WHY SHOULD HULK LISTEN? EVERYONE HATE HULK! BIG EYE NEED TO BE BLACKENED! HULK ANGRY!

[Saruman] Hulk...I want to help you. I don't hate you. I understand how this makes you angry.

[Hulk] YES! HULK ANGRY...HULK...WHY THEY NO LEAVE HULK ALONE?!

[Saruman] I can help with that. Follow me, Hulk. Over here. Just over here. See? Nobody.

[Hulk] PUNY OLD MAN NOT TRY TO TRICK HULK?

[Saruman] *shocked* No, never! I am an old man, a victim of those creatures that attacked you. Those ugly...weak...creatures that attacked you. I want to help you, Hulk.

[Hulk] HULK...Hulk listen. Any tricks, Hulk smash.

[Saruman] *looks out over the ruins around them* Yes. I imagine you would. No tricks, Hulk. *smiles* I promise.