Thread Drift: Is Marvel pushing Anya aside for Silk?

[Probalus]

Yeah, but didn't they do give Anya the title right when they cancelled Mayday's book? That at least makes it look like Mayday was dismissed in favor of Anya. Hence the fear that, just as Anya "pushed aside" Mayday, Cindy is causing Anya to be shelved.

But that fear has no real merit to it since Anya was shelved when her last ongoing sold no more than 10,000 per issue and it was quickly cancelled. This was more than three years ago. It's not like she had a long running 150 issue run there that got cancelled for some other character with the same name. In fact, as mentioned, she's finally going to be a regular again in an ongoing book. It's a time to celebrate, not form conspiracy theories. And if she actually shines in this series then maybe Marvel will put her in something bigger going forward.

[Wellman]

To be honest yeah, Anya did have a lot of chances, but I do agree Silk is getting a bigger push then Anya ever got, which still pales in comparison to Spider-Gwen so it is what it is.


Personally, I don't think Silk should have a book on her own yet but I think the same for Spider-Woman (who I still don't think should be pushed close to the Spider-Man mythos due to the facts of her origin and overall history), but we all have to do our part to help the market decide no matter how we feel.

[Phantom Roxas]

True, it's nowhere near a fair comparison. It might just depend on Secret Wars: Spider-Verse.

[Agent Z]

Were people actually buying ASM because of Silk? I mean I know her solo title is portraying her better than Slott did, but I don't think ASM lead to a rise in demand for her.

[Sardorim]

To be honest yeah, Anya did have a lot of chances, but I do agree Silk is getting a bigger push then Anya ever got, which still pales in comparison to Spider-Gwen so it is what it is.


Personally, I don't think Silk should have a book on her own yet but I think the same for Spider-Woman (who I still don't think should be pushed close to the Spider-Man mythos due to the facts of her origin and overall history), but we all have to do our part to help the market decide no matter how we feel.

Spider-Gwen didn't get pushed too hard, in my opinion. It's more that she was timed perfectly as nearly everyone loved Emma Stone as Gwen in the movies... Her outfit also looks great. Too bad Anya's new outfit never took and Gwen ended up as the Hoodie'd Spider.

Were people actually buying ASM because of Silk? I mean I know her solo title is portraying her better than Slott did, but I don't think ASM lead to a rise in demand for her.

ASM has a ton of readership and recent events only increased it. So I believe that ASM did help Silk out a great deal. Though I'm sure that ASM would have sold even without Silk.

[Probalus]

Were people actually buying ASM because of Silk? I mean I know her solo title is portraying her better than Slott did, but I don't think ASM lead to a rise in demand for her.

Having her first appearance in the second best selling comic book this century (ASM#1) undoubtedly help her. And this stretch of ASM in the last year has been extremely successful too, more so than any ASM run since the early 90s, so Silk undoubtedly had help from this tremendous exposure.

Another thing that helped her is probably the recent Renaissance of female books in both DC and Marvel, which seem to have struck a chord with fans. Perhaps if they launch an Anya solo series now it might be a different story than in the past. Though we'll have to see if all three spider lady books can keep this momentum going first.

[SickAlice]

Like Storm I think it was timing but inverted here whereas Storm would have been a better title to move in an earlier era Araña would have been a title to move now, and in it's original format. The original series, name and look would have lent itself well to a Ms.Marvel style series though naturally making sure the culture was properly represented within the pages.

I get what Sardorim is saying. Marvel pushed the original series and character Araña in it's own bubble first. Back then it came off as an alternate U title sort of like Machine Teen. Books like that tended to find their niches but really didn't take off with the larger audience due to being in that bubble. Then she become a shelf character, being on the shelf until a certain writer of whatever series tried to include her. The problem with that was any time it was done she brought in as a character " everyone should know " but the readers of said series were given little preface (opposed to Silk whom ASM immediately familiarized the reader with), not unlike Maddie. She was relegated to Frog-Man status, that weird vague that was sort of just doing a cameo. None of the previous yet equals a legit push for the character, just use. Civil War would become her first proper showing in the MU (so about two years after inception) and like most characters in Civil War/The Initiative she was one of multiple backdrop characters driving the more well-knowns. At this time she was used in a sidekick role to Carol Danvers, again " who? " as far as the readers of that series knew, and her alleged training never panned out then she was left on the shelf again. The character resurfaced in Grim Hunt again with no preface, ironically next to Maddie (for an example here Kaines death was talked about, Maddie however, who?). Both characters were props for the other characters story's and character development at this point, namely Peter, Kaine and Julia. Then back to the shelf. Pulled off the shelf for Young Allies (which book?) which was of course a vague series that most readers overlooked. Araña was supporting cast to Rikki here a character herself whom was more obscure than Araña and it seems even more easily dismissible.

At this point we enter Spider-girl. Araña takes up Julia's May's title as well Julia's Omega Flight costume in a mini tied to the Spider-Island event. That in itself was of course a little confusing. May fans had been excited about this announcement early on only to discover their favorite character was not in fact returning (at this point I conclude that if their is a replacement push it's between Araña and May rather than Silk as Araña never actually was pushed as Silk was). Araña now also was given an entirely different powerset. In fact at this point I'm going to codename her Arachne due to the costume she now carries (as the previous has become the new Madame Web), more to keep a point about how anything that was original attached to Araña's character has been discarded her and she's being presented as a revamp from this point on. This series was the first true push Marvel has made for this character since the original Araña series. Part of the problem as stated is this character was no longer Araña and they were pushing something else, basically " Julia Light/Neo-May " much to the confusion of three different sets of fans. Kingpin was used to prop this series and was the larger audience draw. All for not as this series ended and Arachne headed back to the shelf (along with the recently revived Cloak & Dagger, and Shang-Chi it seemed. Herc as well and one may conclude Spider-Island was used as an attempt to rekindle previously popular now has beens?).

Next time off the shelf is a cameo in Avengers book. More notably she was put back in the sidekick status she original had in Carol's series, this time playing second fiddle to a rotating cast of Avengers in the not so well taken in Inhumanity series (Avengers Assemble tie-in). Here her character was revamped again giving her a new, and frankly awful costume, and going as far as to establish that even she has no idea what she's about at this point (meta-commentary?). A more sour note here she was outfitted with a new characterization. I character who had previously gotten her wings and had much experience and confidence was now a guppy stepping her toes into the shallow end of the pool somehow. This series was obscure anyways, as was the event and the villain (Toxie Doxie), and may as well register as a blip considering anything done here with the character was going to be dismissed.

I'll note at this point because I think it's important that anything relevant to her alter ego has been a footnote at best. Just to take stock of where we're at now which is a character with an ignored backstory and setting, as well as no tangible superhero alter ego. Which brings us of course to Spider-verse. Well, she had some speaking parts. About as much as Ultimate Jess or anyone else. But she was in a series here again with multiple obscure characters so not unlike The Initiative setting. Readers were to move along the buffet and pick one favorite to latch onto which meant Arachne had only as much of a chance at popularity as any other character, and you still couldn't match to the kind of promotion other characters have received over the years nor to the spotlight specific characters got in this event. She was in fact held a rung under May even in this event and again, on page with little context to who she is. Essentially " Oh hey it's Arachne-Light. Who is this again? ".

So yeah " appearance " can equaled to " effort ". I picked up a stick the other day and put it in the wheelbarrow when the yard was being cleaned the other day. I put in effort and did my part. Did everyone see me? * spins head around *. Did I make a " real effort " though. I mean did I really shown everyone what I was made of and what I was about in that gesture though? And so far has Marvel made a " real effort " to push Araña, or just " an effort "? I believe this what Sardorim is trying to drive home and if so I agree. In fact I'm a little puzzled by anyone that would suggest given the history of the character (pointing up) that their was a sincere to dedicated effort made to bring this character to the larger readerships attention at all.

* note: I didn't include Secret Wars: Spider-verse obviously. I'm not find of talking about the impact either Secret Wars is having nor the contents of it's books, nor everything that's happening after the fact because logistically...it hasn't even been published yet and that's a level of head canon I can't begin to find a way to communicate properly with much less it kind of scares me, short of saying " hasn't happened, not going there until we are there ". Just saying this point is a non-point at this point in time thus irrelevant.

[Sardorim]

Very well said, SickAlice. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Though I would like to emphasis that after each push for Anya that she was soon put back in limbo soon after than when she next appeared it had nothing really to do, with the most part, with her past appearance. Now Spiderverse's Spider-Team may work out but Anya seems to be, once again, without her former support base or character ties so she's going to have to re-establish everything once more.

I agree heavily that after a long lapse that a character needs some kind of proper reintroduction, can't expect readers to remember a character who was put in limbo for long periods of time.

[Agent Z]

Having her first appearance in the second best selling comic book this century (ASM#1) undoubtedly help her. And this stretch of ASM in the last year has been extremely successful too, more so than any ASM run since the early 90s, so Silk undoubtedly had help from this tremendous exposure.

Another thing that helped her is probably the recent Renaissance of female books in both DC and Marvel, which seem to have struck a chord with fans. Perhaps if they launch an Anya solo series now it might be a different story than in the past. Though we'll have to see if all three spider lady books can keep this momentum going first.

I get that the book gave her exposure but did it actually drum up interest for the character?

[Rob London]

People don't seem to quite understand that Marvel has total control over their characters. If they wanted to push Anya aside, they'd a) kill her off, or b) stop publishing books with her in them. She lived through Spider-Verse, and she's going to be in a new seemingly-ongoing series. I don't see the problem here.

[Darthfury78]

To be honest yeah, Anya did have a lot of chances, but I do agree Silk is getting a bigger push then Anya ever got, which still pales in comparison to Spider-Gwen so it is what it is.


Personally, I don't think Silk should have a book on her own yet but I think the same for Spider-Woman (who I still don't think should be pushed close to the Spider-Man mythos due to the facts of her origin and overall history), but we all have to do our part to help the market decide no matter how we feel.

If Nick Lowe had felt the same way as you do, Jessica would not have had a solo series to begin with. As an Avenger, the writers hardly ever used her at all(aside from Secret Avengers and Avengers Assembled). In addition, I feel that Jessica has enough of an establish history of her own that she should be a part of the Spider-Man mythos because her powers and origin are not derived from Peter Parker, which makes them the ideal partners because their personalities actually compliment the other, which we rarely get to see them working together in the pages of the Avengers that has way too many characters as well as them being on different team division. The fact that she left The Avengers, SWORD, and SHIELD to go back to being a street crime fighter makes it likely that she'll finally get to do things her way without all of the inter-dimension and inter-galactic adventures. I hope that Jessica series becomes successful not because her her origins are different from Spider-Man; but because she's a close friend of Peter Parker, who inspired her to be a crime fighter in the first place. In fact, I think that Jessica Drew should have been placed into Spider-Man's world as soon as her series ended in 1982 (instead being placed in limbo) because she could have helped him as a Private Detective, even though her powers were gone at that time.

The fact that Spider-Woman was a part of the Spider-Verse is what helped the series get a few Spider-Readers, along with a good writer who knows her history. But if we can see Jessica's friendship with Peter develop organically in the same manner as Carol Danvers, then the series has a very good chance of doing well. But what I want to see is The Jackal as part of her rogue gallery, as well as Tombstone and Hammerhead.

[Sardorim]

I get that the book gave her exposure but did it actually drum up interest for the character?

Yes, with the push she got and her importance and ties to such a popular character as well as multiple events it would have been crazy if she didn't get a strong following as Spider-Man is a big deal.

People don't seem to quite understand that Marvel has total control over their characters. If they wanted to push Anya aside, they'd a) kill her off, or b) stop publishing books with her in them. She lived through Spider-Verse, and she's going to be in a new seemingly-ongoing series. I don't see the problem here.

Not what's being debated. What's being debated, at least from my angle, is that Marvel never pushed or set up Anya as what was done with Silk. So it isn't fair to say Anya had so many "chances" when none of those changes really compare to the push Silk got and said chances ignore that between each one Anya was in limbo for long periods of time.

[Darthfury78]

Yes, with the push she got and her importance and ties to such a popular character as well as multiple events it would have been crazy if she didn't get a strong following as Spider-Man is a big deal.



Not what's being debated. What's being debated, at least from my angle, is that Marvel never pushed or set up Anya as what was done with Silk. So it isn't fair to say Anya had so many "chances" when none of those changes really compare to the push Silk got and said chances ignore that between each one Anya was in limbo for long periods of time.

And to think that Silk's current situation could have been applied to Anya(minus the Spider-Bite origin and the god awful hormonal lust). It's too bad that the writer of her Spider-Girl series didn't look at it that way instead of killing her father.

[SickAlice]

People don't seem to quite understand that Marvel has total control over their characters. If they wanted to push Anya aside, they'd a) kill her off, or b) stop publishing books with her in them. She lived through Spider-Verse, and she's going to be in a new seemingly-ongoing series. I don't see the problem here.

What Sardorim is getting at in short and often does with Rachel isn't absolute neglect as much as " under-utilization ". What you say is true. They put the label on the feeder bars we push. That means the opposite is also true. " If " they choose to they could have you, and those who do not talking about Araña is a big buzzorthy way. Not unlike they're doing with Silk right now. And we see the results there. We see an article after another dedicated to Silk and generating hype and interest. We saw Silk standing right next to Spider-man panel for panel in the comics. We see her ad all over our favorite things and things with audiences otherwise outside the ASM readership. We don't see that with Araña nor ever did. The point is they kept her play but not in the spotlight. Even when it comes to Hollywood or the music industry, or even politics one has to give spotlight time and heavy promotion to someone for the world to even be aware of their existence, much less be informed as to why they're supposed to care about this. Showing up for the game doesn't make a person a star player particularly if they're a bench warmer. To date aside from the effect convolution has had on the characters stability, or more instability really, they choose for whatever reasons to not back the Araña horse. More they just fly fished with the character and she got a snag she did, if not oh well.

[SpiderOrange]

Gonna be totally honest...

I had no idea who Anya even was until Spider-Verse. I had to Wikipedia her. Apparently she has had a couple of minis and large fan base. As a Spider Man fan for 30 years, seems like she was heavily in my blind spot or Marvel didn't do a great job marketing or packaging her.