Michelle Rodriguez on Green Lantern Rumors: "Stop Stealing All the White People's Superheroes"

[marvelprince]

It's a bit of perspective. I can see how someone might think a gender/race change to an existing character might be a 'hand-me-down' and would rather see a character who was part of their own group from creation become big instead. Static, Fire, Falcon, and many others were minorities from the start and I can understand the desire to see them make it big rather than a recast role (even above legacy characters who have surpassed the originals such as Capt. Marvel and Mr. Terrific).

Did it come out wrong? Judging by reactions, probably, but I can understand the sentiment.

A few months ago I pulled out my phone to show my coworkers son my phone background, a picture of Sam Wilson as Captain America. He looked to the phone, then to me, then back down to the phone. After about a minute he looks at his mom and in the most excitable voice ever says "MOM MOM LOOK. I can finally be Captain America for halloween!!".

^That's why representation is important. I hate this argument of "just make new characters". It does two things. First, it ignores the impossibility of creating new icons. Fact is no new character is going to achieve the name recognition that a Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Captain America, Iron Man or Spider-Man will have. Second it reinforces the idea that these characters aren't for everyone. "Yes asians you may enjoy our Spider-Man but please leave him as white as you found him please and thanks". Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Yes, I support Luke Cage and Black Marvel and other diverse original characters, but there's something about looking towards CAPTAIN AMERICA, an icon both in and out the MU, and seeing yourself reflected in him that just isn't going to happen with another character.

[Gray Lensman]

A few months ago I pulled out my phone to show my coworkers son my phone background, a picture of Sam Wilson as Captain America. He looked to the phone, then to me, then back down to the phone. After about a minute he looks at his mom and in the most excitable voice ever says "MOM MOM LOOK. I can finally be Captain America for halloween!!".

^That's why representation is important. I hate this argument of "just make new characters". It does two things. First, it ignores the impossibility of creating new icons. Fact is no new character is going to achieve the name recognition that a Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Captain America, Iron Man or Spider-Man will have. Second it reinforces the idea that these characters aren't for everyone. "Yes asians you may enjoy our Spider-Man but please leave him as white as you found him please and thanks". Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Yes, I support Luke Cage and Black Marvel and other diverse original characters, but there's something about looking towards CAPTAIN AMERICA, an icon both in and out the MU, and seeing yourself reflected in him that just isn't going to happen with another character.

Also a good point. Hopefully, in a few years both options will be available. While legacy characters, I love Steel and Mr. Terrific, and seeing them get some love (but not in a movie with Shaq....ugh) would be cool as well.

[lancerman]

Lets take Green Lantern. There was a time when Hal, Guy, and John always existed and there wasn't a huge divide in the fandom. Hal was largely regarded as the main GL and the rest could be the central focus of stories, but Hal wasn't really usurped. Then all of a sudden Hal was turned into a villain and Kyle was made the sole lead.

Then a divide occurred in the fandom. There were Hal fans and Kyle fans with both fans lobbying for their guy. This came to a head when everyone freaked out about who would be the GL in the JL cartoon. And the compromise was that John Stewart would be the GL to add diversity. Great idea, they wrote the character well for the series he was in. All of a sudden it had the unintended side effect of no there's a group that wants John to be the main guy.

So now the fanbase is divided 3 ways, and nobody wants to compromise. You have a Hal Jordan movie where they gave him Kyle's personality, and John fans were ecstatic that it flopped. You have Hal fans who don't want to even watch a movie with the other two if Hal is excluded, etc. And quite frankly, I don't know if you will ever satisfy fans with a GL movie. Because there will always be people who hate it. The same thing is happening with Peter Parker and Miles Morales.

And this isn't really a race thing. Because I'm pretty sure Hal fans don't want him to be usurped by Guy Gardner anymore than John Stewart. And I don't think Peter Parker fans would be more okay with Ben Reilly leading a film than Miles. And I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Wally West fans who are pissed that Barry is the lead. Point is people like the characters the way they originally fell in love with them.

And yeah there is an element of laziness in the industry that is perpetuating this.

[Crimson Knight]

Also a good point. Hopefully, in a few years both options will be available. While legacy characters, I love Steel and Mr. Terrific, and seeing them get some love (but not in a movie with Shaq....ugh) would be cool as well.

Would it not be awesome if Steel, even without Superman, could be in the new CW spin-off, with Ray, Martin, Leonard, maybe Sara and two others?

[lancerman]

A few months ago I pulled out my phone to show my coworkers son my phone background, a picture of Sam Wilson as Captain America. He looked to the phone, then to me, then back down to the phone. After about a minute he looks at his mom and in the most excitable voice ever says "MOM MOM LOOK. I can finally be Captain America for halloween!!".

^That's why representation is important. I hate this argument of "just make new characters". It does two things. First, it ignores the impossibility of creating new icons. Fact is no new character is going to achieve the name recognition that a Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Captain America, Iron Man or Spider-Man will have. Second it reinforces the idea that these characters aren't for everyone. "Yes asians you may enjoy our Spider-Man but please leave him as white as you found him please and thanks". Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Yes, I support Luke Cage and Black Marvel and other diverse original characters, but there's something about looking towards CAPTAIN AMERICA, an icon both in and out the MU, and seeing yourself reflected in him that just isn't going to happen with another character.

It's not impossible to create new icons. The industry is just lazy. They put Static on tv and his popularity exploded and then never did anything with him. It's about how you present them. If Cap was just a character that existed in WWII and then wasn't really pushed he wouldn't be nearly the icon he is today. But they are lazy and kept going to the well.

There is a reason why Disney can make arab, Asian, native American, and black princess and it works and they are presented on the same level as the white princesses, without them changing Snow White and Sleeping Beauty to another race. There is a reason why Static has a cartoon and all of a sudden their is a huge demand for him. For whatever reason DC didn't put the resources into pushing him like they should have. Cyborg was always a side character and now he's pushed as a JL character. They haven't maxed out the potential because the writing is crap, but Cyborg is a significantly more valuable character than he was in the 2000's.

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man were at one point not icons. Someone with creativity got the idea for them and they were viewed as valuable commodities and kept getting presented as strong characters.

It's laziness not impossibility that prevents new characters from becoming icons.

[Cthulhudrew]

I think it's pretty sad that she even had to take the time to clarify her thoughts to mollify people who were too sensitive and overreactive (and/or dumb?) to get what she said the first time. I thought her meaning was pretty clear in the original "off the cuff" remark.

[Gray Lensman]

Would it not be awesome if Steel, even without Superman, could be in the new CW spin-off, with Ray, Martin, Leonard, maybe Sara and two others?

Well, with the Atom we already have a guy in a suit, so I think Mr. Terrific is more likely.

[lancerman]

I think it's pretty sad that she even had to take the time to clarify her thoughts to mollify people who were too sensitive and overreactive (and/or dumb?) to get what she said the first time. I thought her meaning was pretty clear in the original "off the cuff" remark.

If the wind blows to much in someone's direction people get offended. We have a sanitized/PC/public apology culture. People can't deal with things that don't cater to their feelings.

[Crimson Knight]

Well, with the Atom we already have a guy in a suit, so I think Mr. Terrific is more likely.

I thought Steel was a fella with an armoured suit, and a mallet. I don't know that I'd equate that to the Atom, myself, with flight and the other power I believe Steel has, more unique to him, lest Martin's in a Firestorm duo.

What's the story, power wise, with Mister Terrific then?

[Fuzzy Barbarian]

I absolutely agree with her, and I don't think she needed to elaborate at all. It's clear what she meant.

[Holt]

It's not impossible to create new icons. The industry is just lazy. They put Static on tv and his popularity exploded and then never did anything with him. It's about how you present them. If Cap was just a character that existed in WWII and then wasn't really pushed he wouldn't be nearly the icon he is today. But they are lazy and kept going to the well.

There is a reason why Disney can make arab, Asian, native American, and black princess and it works and they are presented on the same level as the white princesses, without them changing Snow White and Sleeping Beauty to another race. There is a reason why Static has a cartoon and all of a sudden their is a huge demand for him. For whatever reason DC didn't put the resources into pushing him like they should have. Cyborg was always a side character and now he's pushed as a JL character. They haven't maxed out the potential because the writing is crap, but Cyborg is a significantly more valuable character than he was in the 2000's.

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man were at one point not icons. Someone with creativity got the idea for them and they were viewed as valuable commodities and kept getting presented as strong characters.

It's laziness not impossibility that prevents new characters from becoming icons.

I'd argue that it has more to do with the media aspect and Hollywood simply not being receptive to minority-led features. At this point the comics industry is so insular and niche that chances are your character isn't going to become a big breakout hit until they get a movie or featured in one. The Guardians of the Galaxy are a perfect example. Nobody knew who they were a year ago and now you have people making "I am Groot" jokes in sitcoms and stuff. The mainstream push elevated a bunch of D-listers to part of the public consciousness. You have Iron Man who had a kid's show in the 90's but certainly wasn't a popular character suddenly becoming a massive mega rock star and the flagship franchise of the MCU because of his movie.

That same sort of push is very rarely afforded to minority (and frankly, female regardless of race) characters because Hollywood has a longtime stigma against casting minority actors in big budget genre films unless their name is Will Smith or Angelina Jolie. You saw it very recently with the Sony leaks where some execs got flack for talking about how they didn't want to spend a lot of money on the Equalizer (which ironically did end up becoming a hit) because they felt international audiences didn't want to watch an action movie with a black lead character. You had Hollywood adaptations of Avatar: The Last Airbender and Dragon Ball Z (and more recently the controversy around Scarjo in Ghost in The Shell) where the lead heroes ended up conveniently recast as white people because Hollywood thinks people won't watch genre movies starring Asians.

You have all these potential characters they could be using in films and TV and we're only just now seeing them showing up with Black Panther and Captain Marvel over a decade after the MCU began. The bean counters are wary of spending money on properties like that because they're worried that middle america isn't gonna watch them. I mean does anyone think we're likely to see a Ms. Marvel flick anytime soon given the current political climate in some parts of the U.S. and Europe? You think Marvel is gonna shell out 100 million plus to make a movie starring a Muslim superhero?

[MYCMTSC]

Completely agree with her. It speaks more about comic books than movies but yeah, every time a new legacy character is announced, I roll my eyes because we know it's not going to last. Does anyone really think Sam Wilson is going to be Captain America for the rest of his existence?

Plus, I want new superheroes and if they're part of a minority group, great. Don't just put a woman or a non-white guy into a role that previously belonged to a white guy because that comes across as a petty, blatant attempt to revitalise the character and/or get mainstream publicity.

But what about when Bucky became the new Captain America? Or Ross became a Hulk?

There seems to be a specific ire for POC to take on legacy roles when oftentimes its just an expansion of the existing mythology.

[Tracer Bullet]

The problem they'll try a bunch of different iterations of White characters with varying degrees of success, but when they try a minority character and it doesn't achieve success they'll say minority characters are "more tricky" or it wasn't "the right time". And they don't seem to want to gamble on lesser known minority heroes and villains to give them a big push onscreen.

[Gray Lensman]

I thought Steel was a fella with an armoured suit, and a mallet. I don't know that I'd equate that to the Atom, myself, with flight and the other power I believe Steel has, more unique to him, lest Martin's in a Firestorm duo.

What's the story, power wise, with Mister Terrific then?

One of the smartest people in the world (3rd smartest IIRC), Operating Nurse/Paramedic, Inventor, Scientist, a dozen black belts, and one metahuman power - he can't be perceived by machines.

[Kirby Krackle]

I agree that we need more new and original non-white heroes, but I don't agree that recasting is a problem. She raises some good points about originality I think. Other than that, not really gonna touch it.